49ers

[Cardsfanstl]

Your point #5 is exactly what I said. He's not a dominant QB. You're right, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, et al, all are not in the SB, but they are all better QB's than Wilson too.


Both you guys are helping to prove my point that he is the product of being placed in an ideal situation. They are a team that runs the ball and relies on defense.

Kind of like when Baltimore won their first Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer at QB.

 

[john h]

I don't think it's debatable. 32 of 32 teams would take Luck over Wilson. Wilson has really struggled down the stretch and didn't really do anything impressive on Sunday. The one long TD pass was a free play and really very fortunate to be complete. He's still more of threat running than passing.

I would take Wilson on the Cards but he wouldn't be my first choice. He probably wouldn't be in my top 5-7 choices either, but I'm more of a fan of QB's that can beat you from the pocket and I'm not sold, at all, on Wilson as a pocket passer.

I would like to see him for another year before anointing him a star QB.

 

[cardpa]

I agree with CBus, Wilson has yet to do anything on a long enough and consistent enough basis to be considered anything other than a run of the mill QB.

If anything you have to give Carroll credit for molding the Seattle offense to fit Wilson's strengths to a tee. Carroll is also fortunate to have a RB like Lynch who creates enough problems for a defense to allow Carroll to pick his spots to stretch a defense with Wilson throwing deep. Seattle's Oline may not have been very good at pass protection however they did a fine job blocking for the run game.

The Cardinal game is a good example of what Wilson is capable or incapable of doing. The Cardinal defense took away Lynch and the Seattle run game and did a good job of keeping Wilson contained in the pocket and and Wilson produced next to nothing.

Do not be surprised if you see the Denver defense run a similar defensive scheme the the Cardinals ran. I feel pretty confident the Denver coaching staff is reviewing games that shutdown the Seattle offense and the Cardinals and 49ers are probably the most watched film in Denver.

There are a fair number of QBs I would take over Wilson at this point. I am also of the school that I rather have a good pocket passer over a running back that plays QB. There are reasons why Wilson was a 3rd round pick. There is a reason why Wilson threw the ball on average over a 150 times less than any other QB that started 16 games in the NFL.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

What is he doing that no other QB has done in their first two seasons?

Little things of no consequence like score TDs, have a high QB rating, win games

You know, that stuff..................

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

To clear things up, I'm not saying Wilson is a bad QB. He's just not what I'd consider a great or dominant QB. Like mentioned above, he's very Alex Smith-like. If he's placed in the right system, has a good run game and defense, he'll be a very good QB, much like Smith became better once Harbaugh arrived in SF and implemented that type of system.

If you'd put Wilson in Bruce Arians style offense, I think he'd be a bad fit.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

the guy could play in any type of offense

strong arm, accurate, smart, leadership off the charts and only getting better with more experience going through progressions, etc

not a top 5 or "dominant" QB at this point - but he'll be good for a long time - when you watch him you see different parts added to the game and alex smith would kill a puppy for wilsons deep ball

Plus Alex Smith has never thrown for 26 TDs in a season ... Wilson has done it twice ... Wilson has put up a 64% and 63% completions in his 2 years ...... Smith has exceeded that once (and it wasn't a full season) ........ Smith threw 25 ints in his first 27 games - Wilson has thrown 20 through 36 games (including playoffs) .... Smith has broken a 100 passer rating once in his career - Wilson has hit that mark each of his first two seasons .... Alex Smith has 13 career game winning drives - Wilson has 10 .... Wilson has been top 5 in both YPC and YPA in each of his first two seasons and top 10 in each season in TD passes

 

[Cardiac]

When Carroll announced that Wilson was his starting QB I was happy because I didn't think a 5' 8" QB could be successful in the NFL. Wilson has proven me wrong as he is very successful. Now if he was 6' 3" he may be the best young QB in the NFL. Great leadership skills and treats the ball as if it was his first born, simply doesn't throw picks.

It will be interesting to see if the NFL has figured him out and can game plan against him to make him ineffective. Cards and 9ers really held him in check but then again they are top notch D's.

OP, 9ers will not drop much this year IMO. They still have a ton of talent and FA and the draft to shore up any "holes" on their roster.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Plus Alex Smith has never thrown for 26 TDs in a season ... Wilson has done it twice ... Wilson has put up a 64% and 63% completions in his 2 years ...... Smith has exceeded that once (and it wasn't a full season) ........ Smith threw 25 ints in his first 27 games - Wilson has thrown 20 through 36 games (including playoffs) .... Smith has broken a 100 passer rating once in his career - Wilson has hit that mark each of his first two seasons .... Alex Smith has 13 career game winning drives - Wilson has 10 .... Wilson has been top 5 in both YPC and YPA in each of his first two seasons and top 10 in each season in TD passes

That's apples to oranges. Seattle's team was much better when Wilson joined them. SF had the #1 pick in the draft.

 

[GatorAZ]

To clear things up, I'm not saying Wilson is a bad QB. He's just not what I'd consider a great or dominant QB. Like mentioned above, he's very Alex Smith-like. If he's placed in the right system, has a good run game and defense, he'll be a very good QB, much like Smith became better once Harbaugh arrived in SF and implemented that type of system.

If you'd put Wilson in Bruce Arians style offense, I think he'd be a bad fit.

He'd be a better fit than our current quarterback. Wilson is a better decision-maker, he can make plays out of nothing (like BA's previous pro- bowl quarterbacks) and he's just as accurate downfield.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

He'd be a better fit than our current quarterback. Wilson is a better decision-maker, he can make plays out of nothing (like BA's previous pro- bowl quarterbacks) and he's just as accurate downfield.

I disagree. Ben, Peyton, and Luck are all big guys that stand tall in the pocket, like Palmer. Granted, Ben and Luck are more mobile but they are still pocket passers first, something Wilson is not. I also disagree that Wilson is just as accurate downfield when throwing from the pocket. On the run, and outside the pocket, I agree.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That's apples to oranges. Seattle's team was much better when Wilson joined them. SF had the #1 pick in the draft.

true, but it's not like they were world beaters. they were 7-9 and 7-9 in back to back seasons before Wilson and 11-5 and 13-3 and in the Super Bowl the next two seasons with Wilson. Dude made an impact (and a pretty substantial one) no matter how you slice it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Kind of like when Baltimore won their first Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer at QB.

that was probably one of the best defense of all time though. this Seahawks D is very, very good, but no one is confusing them with the 85 Bears like they were with Baltimore.

and those Baltimore teams were winning in spite of their QBs. Dilfer's numbers were pretty damn ugly the season they won the title with 12 TDs/11 INTs and a 76.6 rating In 8 games) as opposed to Wilson who's put up averaging 26/10 with a 100 rating in both seasons. there's a gulf of difference between the role Dilfer played and what Wilson has for seattle.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

true, but it's not like they were world beaters. they were 7-9 and 7-9 in back to back seasons before Wilson and 11-5 and 13-3 and in the Super Bowl the next two seasons with Wilson. Dude made an impact (and a pretty substantial one) no matter how you slice it.

I agree and never said otherwise. He landed in the perfect situation and is taking advantage of it.

My whole point was that I don't think he's a dominant QB. You could take a guy like Manning/Rodgers/Ben/Brady, etc. and put them on any team and they are going to be very successful. I don't think you could do that with Wilson.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I agree and never said otherwise. He landed in the perfect situation and is taking advantage of it.

My whole point was that I don't think he's a dominant QB. You could take a guy like Manning/Rodgers/Ben/Brady, etc. and put them on any team and they are going to be very successful. I don't think you could do that with Wilson.

I don't think he's at the level of those guys, but I do think you give him less credit then he deserves. no one (except Bill Simmons) expected the Seahawks to do ANYTHING with wilson, no one saw his team as a perfect situation. he's had a solid hand in making that look like it was in hindsight, but that's just what it is, IMO.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

That's apples to oranges. Seattle's team was much better when Wilson joined them. SF had the #1 pick in the draft.

I'm comparing to Smiths career ... not just his 1st two years

Wilson has done things in 2 years that Smith isn't able to do at his established peak

His stats are also better from the pocket

I understand you didn't like the guy, you don't think he should be good and you don't follow him ....... that's fine ... but it's also why you are completely off base

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I understand you didn't like the guy, you don't think he should be good and you don't follow him ....... that's fine ... but it's also why you are completely off base

Says the blind homer Seahawk fan.

I have said he's a good, not great QB. You're the one taking issue with that. I guess I should just say Russell Wilson is the greatest QB EVER and then this can end.

But I won't . He's a good QB in great situation which has yielded very good results. He's been a part of the reason but Marshawn Lynch and the defense have been bigger reasons for the success.

Plus, you're mistaken. I like Wilson. What's not to like about him? I wouldn't take him over Andrew Luck, nobody outside of Seattle would, and that's what started this conversation.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

The 12th man has spoken... Move along citizen.

 

[GatorAZ]

I disagree. Ben, Peyton, and Luck are all big guys that stand tall in the pocket, like Palmer. Granted, Ben and Luck are more mobile but they are still pocket passers first, something Wilson is not. I also disagree that Wilson is just as accurate downfield when throwing from the pocket. On the run, and outside the pocket, I agree.

So Palmer being a mediocre passer from the pocket makes him a better fit than a superior QB in general? That's kind of a reach.

Wilson outperformed him facing the same strength of schedule. Give me the better quarterback regardless of fit.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

So Palmer being a mediocre passer from the pocket makes him a better fit than a superior QB in general? That's kind of a reach.

Wilson outperformed him facing the same strength of schedule. Give me the better quarterback regardless of fit.

I wouldn't say he outperformed Palmer the 2nd half of the year. Here are their 2nd half stats:

Wilson: 132/202 65.3% 1729yds 13TD 5INT 59.7QBR 104.6Rating
Palmer: 188/288 65.3% 2361yds 14TD 8INT 66.1QBR 95.3Rating


I know you can't do it, but take away that 4INT game at Seattle and Palmer's numbers are better. Either way, it's probably a wash and both numbers are very good. Wilson had the benefit of a better running game while CP had the better receiving corp.

 

[juza76]

When Carroll announced that Wilson was his starting QB I was happy because I didn't think a 5' 8" QB could be successful in the NFL. Wilson has proven me wrong as he is very successful. Now if he was 6' 3" he may be the best young QB in the NFL. Great leadership skills and treats the ball as if it was his first born, simply doesn't throw picks.

It will be interesting to see if the NFL has figured him out and can game plan against him to make him ineffective. Cards and 9ers really held him in check but then again they are top notch D's.

OP, 9ers will not drop much this year IMO. They still have a ton of talent and FA and the draft to shore up any "holes" on their roster.

what happen to wilson?has been measured at combine 5'10'' 5/8 and now is 5'8''?

 

[GatorAZ]

I wouldn't say he outperformed Palmer the 2nd half of the year. Here are their 2nd half stats:

Wilson: 132/202 65.3% 1729yds 13TD 5INT 59.7QBR 104.6Rating
Palmer: 188/288 65.3% 2361yds 14TD 8INT 66.1QBR 95.3Rating


I know you can't do it, but take away that 4INT game at Seattle and Palmer's numbers are better. Either way, it's probably a wash and both numbers are very good. Wilson had the benefit of a better running game while CP had the better receiving corp.

Each benefitted from their own weapons but I'll side with the better decision-maker. If you take away both guys' worst game Wilson has a top-5 QB-rating and Palmer is right around #15.

Wilson also rushed for over 500 yards at 5 YPC...

 

[Totally_Red]

Wilson ---> Kaepernick

 

[MigratingOsprey]

what happen to wilson?has been measured at combine 5'10'' 5/8 and now is 5'8''?

He's clearly too small to be an effective QB - especially if he has to pass the ball a lot because no QB his size could succeed as a frequency pocket passer

You must be registered for see images

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

A. I don't think there is one person in this thread who thinks RW is not a great QB, I think everyone here would trade CP for RW in a heartbeat.

B. Is there really a shortage of Russel Wilson ball-slurping on the Seahawks board, that you spend so much time doing it here?

 

[MigratingOsprey]

Just providing insight ......... but cute..........