50% of the season is over. What works. What doesn't.

[kerouac9]

I don't have the time to comb through 31 teams worth of backup swing tackle play, but from my nearly 30 years of watching Cardinals football, Wetzel is easily one of the best swing tackle backups this team has had. Sign the dude to a three year, decent backup caliber deal and you have a guy who can play well at times in a pinch and you don't have to worry about a pretty critical backup position for awhile.

You're love for Wetzel is well known, but here's what Football Outsiders said about him last year:

When Humphries was initially on the shelf, Arizona went with John Wetzel instead of sliding Jared Veldheer over to the blind side. After Humphries went on injured reserve, Arizona moved Veldheer to left tackle in light of Wetzel’s poor performance. Wetzel allowed 8.0 sacks on the season, which was a half-sack shy of the most in the league. Veldheer, to his credit, was Arizona’s only average lineman in terms of snaps per blown block, finishing 19th out of 37 right tackles with enough snaps to qualify.

Wetzel was 5th last season in blown blocks with 38. (Aaron Boone (36) and A.Q. Shipley (25) appeared on the list for interior linemen.) I'd rather have Fred Wakefield. Wetzel is the definition of a replacement-level player.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You're love for Wetzel is well known, but here's what Football Outsiders said about him last year:



Wetzel was 5th last season in blown blocks with 38. (Aaron Boone (36) and A.Q. Shipley (25) appeared on the list for interior linemen.) I'd rather have Fred Wakefield. Wetzel is the definition of a replacement-level player.

Line play is notoriously hard to gauge. And there are other mitigating factors as well...

1) Arians system is notorious for leaving OTs on an island with little help from TE and RBs. It's the primary reason he was fired in Pittsburgh, he routinely allowed Been to get clocked.

2). Gabber and Stanton weren't exactly good St maneuvering in the pocket and avoiding the rush.

You can throw numbers at me, but the fact of the matter is that numbers don't always tell the whole story. Wetzel has played fairly well for a back up OT.

 

[Cardiac]

Line play is notoriously hard to gauge. And there are other mitigating factors as well...

1) Arians system is notorious for leaving OTs on an island with little help from TE and RBs. It's the primary reason he was fired in Pittsburgh, he routinely allowed Been to get clocked.

2). Gabber and Stanton weren't exactly good St maneuvering in the pocket and avoiding the rush.

You can throw numbers at me, but the fact of the matter is that numbers don't always tell the whole story. Wetzel has played fairly well for a back up OT.

Agree and there is a reason he is in even as a OG instead of anyone else on the roster. He struggles at LT but is decent at RT and with some experience may improve at OG.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Agree and there is a reason he is in even as a OG instead of anyone else on the roster. He struggles at LT but is decent at RT and with some experience may improve at OG.

Even most starting LTs struggle at LT.

 

[Chopper0080]

You're love for Wetzel is well known, but here's what Football Outsiders said about him last year:



Wetzel was 5th last season in blown blocks with 38. (Aaron Boone (36) and A.Q. Shipley (25) appeared on the list for interior linemen.) I'd rather have Fred Wakefield. Wetzel is the definition of a replacement-level player.

This falls into the same space as several of our fringe players. I would rather keep continuity as much as possible for backup players like this as they shouldn't cost much, and we have several others areas we need to address. Why pay another play the same money to fill a similar role when you can just re-sign Wetzel for one or two more years?

 

[kerouac9]

This falls into the same space as several of our fringe players. I would rather keep continuity as much as possible for backup players like this as they shouldn't cost much, and we have several others areas we need to address. Why pay another play the same money to fill a similar role when you can just re-sign Wetzel for one or two more years?

It's fine. I'm fine with keeping Wetzel on the roster. I just dispute the notion that he's good.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

come on dude...chad williams is a second year player... the kid is doing fine. he has already more than tripled his production from last season.
not everybody drafted becomes a pro bowler and most never become starters, let alone in their first two seasons.
the kid is on pace for around 35 catches for 300 yds...not spectacular but fine for a second year player who isnt a primary WR...and a noticeable improvement from last season.
if he continues to improve then next year, in his third season...we can expect 60+ catches for 700 yds or so...
fantastic for a WR3
dude wasnt a first round pick for a reason.

antonio Brown didnt become a 100 catch 1500 yd per season guy until his fourth season

Except Chad Williams cannot get separation, runs poor routes, and his "tripled" production. Current on pace for a whopping 28 receptions and 288 yards. Not to mention he doesn't even pass the eye test when you take the stats out of the equation.

Sorry not buying he is the next Antonio Brown, or that he will amount to something based on that thinking.

He doesn't need to be a pro-bowler, he needs to justify a roster spot on a NFL team. Right now, he is not. Not every 3rd round pick deserves a NFL roster spot either.

How is Williams going to be a 3rd WR when he doesn't play in the slot ? So you are saying a backup WR for the outside position ? So he is a 4th or 5th wide receiver ?

Williams better turn into a special team's savage over the next 8 games to justify that.

 

[Chopper0080]

Except Chad Williams cannot get separation, runs poor routes, and his "tripled" production. Current on pace for a whopping 28 receptions and 288 yards. Not to mention he doesn't even pass the eye test when you take the stats out of the equation.

Sorry not buying he is the next Antonio Brown, or that he will amount to something based on that thinking.

He doesn't need to be a pro-bowler, he needs to justify a roster spot on a NFL team. Right now, he is not. Not every 3rd round pick deserves a NFL roster spot either.

How is Williams going to be a 3rd WR when he doesn't play in the slot ? So you are saying a backup WR for the outside position ? So he is a 4th or 5th wide receiver ?

Williams better turn into a special team's savage over the next 8 games to justify that.

We have 3 WRs under contract for next season. Christian Kirk, Chad Williams, and Trent Sherfield. Why incur 350k in dead money cutting a player who is a 848k cap hit just to then have to sign another camp body? Now, I wouldn't avoid drafting or signing WRs because Chad Williams is on the roster but 30 catches on a season is worth 850K.

 

[Chopper0080]

It's fine. I'm fine with keeping Wetzel on the roster. I just dispute the notion that he's good.

That is fair.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Except Chad Williams cannot get separation, runs poor routes, and his "tripled" production. Current on pace for a whopping 28 receptions and 288 yards. Not to mention he doesn't even pass the eye test when you take the stats out of the equation.

Sorry not buying he is the next Antonio Brown, or that he will amount to something based on that thinking.

He doesn't need to be a pro-bowler, he needs to justify a roster spot on a NFL team. Right now, he is not. Not every 3rd round pick deserves a NFL roster spot either.

How is Williams going to be a 3rd WR when he doesn't play in the slot ? So you are saying a backup WR for the outside position ? So he is a 4th or 5th wide receiver ?

Williams better turn into a special team's savage over the next 8 games to justify that.

I'm with Chopper here; to replace him and his production would cost more than to keep him. He can be comfortably slotted into the 4th WR spot and he's productive enough there. Definitely a bust so far, but it happens in the NFL.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

We have 3 WRs under contract for next season. Christian Kirk, Chad Williams, and Trent Sherfield. Why incur 350k in dead money cutting a player who is a 848k cap hit just to then have to sign another camp body? Now, I wouldn't avoid drafting or signing WRs because Chad Williams is on the roster but 30 catches on a season is worth 850K.

If he can beat out Trent Sherfield for the 5th WR/ST spot, then I am more than fine with it.

The utter neglect of the WR position has been well documented through the last few years. The Cardinals are going to have to sign two WR free agents and draft a receiver to improve the situation. That is the bed they made, thus they will have to sleep in it.

To have Chad Williams AND Trent Sherfield as part as the plans is not going to cut it, IMHO.

Good points tho, I will not dispute the cost per production comment.

EDIT: Just glanced at the wide receiver free agents for 2019, and Sherfield and Williams may happen in 2019 because of lack of talent. Not good, not good at all.

 

[football karma]

8-You can build around Humphries, Pugh, Cole, Shipley and Wetzel. That group needs to stay together.

This is the one I really take issue with.

Humphries might be the most talented, but I think on a high level offensive line, he would be the 3rd or 4th best.

Cole has been okay -- for a rookie. I would hope that he improves significantly from year 1 to year 2 -- but that's no guarantee

I didn't know the LG / RG thing on Pugh. Maybe next year he moves into Iupati's slot and is a different guy. Again -- that's a maybe

I like Shipley, but he strikes me as a guy now on the downside of a career, coming off a ACL.

That leaves holes at RG and RT to be filled.

 

[cardpa]

Except Chad Williams cannot get separation, runs poor routes, and his "tripled" production. Current on pace for a whopping 28 receptions and 288 yards. Not to mention he doesn't even pass the eye test when you take the stats out of the equation.

Sorry not buying he is the next Antonio Brown, or that he will amount to something based on that thinking.

He doesn't need to be a pro-bowler, he needs to justify a roster spot on a NFL team. Right now, he is not. Not every 3rd round pick deserves a NFL roster spot either.

How is Williams going to be a 3rd WR when he doesn't play in the slot ? So you are saying a backup WR for the outside position ? So he is a 4th or 5th wide receiver ?

Williams better turn into a special team's savage over the next 8 games to justify that.

The difference between Brown and Williams is in his second year Brown had 69 rec. for 1108 yds 2TDS, and in year three 66 Rec. for 787 yds. and 5TDs. Williams so far in his second season has 11 rec. for 113 yds. and 1TD. I don't think he's going to catch Brown's stats in year two.

 

[JeffGollin]

I'd like for us to bring in 2 -3 athletic freaks (size, speed etc) on the front seven on each side of the ball.

i.e. When our guy collides with their guy, it would be swell if their guy was knocked backward instead of vice versa.

 

[oaken1]

The difference between Brown and Williams is in his second year Brown had 69 rec. for 1108 yds 2TDS, and in year three 66 Rec. for 787 yds. and 5TDs. Williams so far in his second season has 11 rec. for 113 yds. and 1TD. I don't think he's going to catch Brown's stats in year two.

obviously not. but their year threes can look awfully similar.

most forget that traditionally wr is a three year adjustment to the nfl level....williams is on pace to be a fine wr

 

[Chopper0080]

This is the one I really take issue with.

Humphries might be the most talented, but I think on a high level offensive line, he would be the 3rd or 4th best.

Cole has been okay -- for a rookie. I would hope that he improves significantly from year 1 to year 2 -- but that's no guarantee

I didn't know the LG / RG thing on Pugh. Maybe next year he moves into Iupati's slot and is a different guy. Again -- that's a maybe

I like Shipley, but he strikes me as a guy now on the downside of a career, coming off a ACL.

That leaves holes at RG and RT to be filled.

If we head into the 2019 offseason with

LT - DJ Humphries (with a contract ext)
LG - Justin Pugh (rated better by PFF as a LG than RG and Iupati is leaving)
C - Mason Cole
RG - ???
RT - ??? (they have Andre Smith under contract)
Backup C - AQ Shipley
Backup OT - John Wetzel
Backup OG - ???
Backup OL - ??? (Korey Cunningham?)

That isn't terrible. You would be forced to draft one or two linemen, but that should be the plan anyway. You can keep Andre Smith rather than create another hole that needs to be filled. Adding an OG in the draft with a top 90 pick would be a good thing.

The main point is that we want to limit how many FA dollars we are dumping into our line while also continuing to improve it. That may mean keeping Andre Smith as we develop Korey Cunningham. DJ will run us about 11 mil per season. Pugh is about 10 mil as well. Cole will be cheap. Now we need to find another Cole type player in the draft to come in and provide a decent level of play with hope for improvement.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I'm not keen on bringing back Benson Mayowa. Too many time I see him lose outside contain which ends up being a huge running play for the opposition.

 

[football karma]

If we head into the 2019 offseason with

LT - DJ Humphries (with a contract ext)
LG - Justin Pugh (rated better by PFF as a LG than RG and Iupati is leaving)
C - Mason Cole
RG - ???
RT - ??? (they have Andre Smith under contract)
Backup C - AQ Shipley
Backup OT - John Wetzel
Backup OG - ???
Backup OL - ??? (Korey Cunningham?)

That isn't terrible. You would be forced to draft one or two linemen, but that should be the plan anyway.

I agree with this

IF the Cards get the good fortune of being in a draft slot where they get to auction off the chance to draft a young QB, and pick up extra 2nd round pick(s)--- there seems to be depth in the offensive line in the second round-

three Wisconsin OLs are rated in that slot: David Edward, T, and Beau Benzschawel and Mike Dieter OGs (im in favor of Beau simply on name alone) --- a program that seems to churn out NFL ready offensive linemen. Nate Herbig of Stanford is a tackle in that range as well

Heck: accumulate 2nd round picks, and just take the three Wisconsin players and call it a draft

 

[Chopper0080]

I agree with this

IF the Cards get the good fortune of being in a draft slot where they get to auction off the chance to draft a young QB, and pick up extra 2nd round pick(s)--- there seems to be depth in the offensive line in the second round-

three Wisconsin OLs are rated in that slot: David Edward, T, and Beau Benzschawel and Mike Dieter OGs (im in favor of Beau simply on name alone) --- a program that seems to churn out NFL ready offensive linemen. Nate Herbig of Stanford is a tackle in that range as well

Heck: accumulate 2nd round picks, and just take the three Wisconsin players and call it a draft

I like Chris Lindstrom out of Boston College. You are correct that Wisconsin linemen have historically done well.

 

[Chopper0080]

I'm not keen on bringing back Benson Mayowa. Too many time I see him lose outside contain which ends up being a huge running play for the opposition.

Meh. I see him make positive plays as well. He is a backup player. Rotational guy. Pretty good guy to have on your roster and play 25%-35% of snaps. Give me a Chandler Jones, Markus Golden at 6 mil per year, Bronson Mayowa, and a top end DE draftee and DE is a strength on this team.

 

[Snakester]

I think we need to draft one high and sign a really good one next season. Lord knows we will have the money to sign anyone we want.

 

[kerouac9]

I think we need to draft one high and sign a really good one next season. Lord knows we will have the money to sign anyone we want.

This just isn’t true.

 

[Snakester]

This just isn’t true.

There isn’t a single NFL player that we couldn’t afford next year no matter how big the contract is. With the kind of money we will have we could sign Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady at the same time.

 

[kerouac9]

There isn’t a single NFL player that we couldn’t afford next year no matter how big the contract is. With the kind of money we will have we could sign Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady at the same time.

Even releasing Bradford would only put us in the middle tier of NFL teams with salary cap space. We learned last year that for top free agents, money sometimes isn’t everything.

 

[cardncubfan]

Spotrac shows us at #11 overall with cap space next year. Above league average. Cutting Sam will free up another 20mil. He's currently set for 25mil with 5mil of dead money. We should have roughly 70mil in space. It would put us at 6 overall for space available.


https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2019/