76ers @ Suns Wednesday game thread 3-20-2024

[Ronin]

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[mjb21aztd]

Good bounce back dub for suns kd did well book and greyson was on fire shazamm

420 tipsy turtle 3 cubes to w goo suns

Hope see ish n gm

 

[Vacard]

Thought this a good win until i found out thar Embiid didnt play…

 

[Hoop Head]

I think I have to take a couple game break from watching the suns. I can’t even enjoy a double digit win. That’s a me problem. Sorry for being a downer tonight.

It won't help. I've done that at a few points this season and when I return it's the same old stuff. This team lacks fire and Vogel's coaching mishaps are more apparent somehow after a short break. This Suns squad is similar to the Michael Beasley year in terms of likability. There's some guys I like here, Booker, Grayson, Beal, even Nurkic, but they don't seem to care whether they're up 20, down 15, or the score is tied. Vogel's lack of adjustments and planning for an opponent is frustrating. His use of certain players makes me miss playoff Monty or D'Antoni. I'd honestly feel better with Doc Rivers on the sidelines for the Suns. Vogel is a huge problem that I believe everyone is waiting to see be corrected but that won't happen until the playoffs are over. Hopefully we can get a good coach in here to right the ship. I don't think anyone could make this team less likable.

 

[wagon mound 464]

It’s a win. Grayson was on fire!!!

I have mentioned this several times before,,,, the Suns best
get to work to extend Grayson's contract for 2/3 more years, and
make him smile about staying a Sun.
Failure to do so,,, good offers will be flowing for his services elsewhere.
Loyalty has its limit$....

 

[AzStevenCal]

Thought this a good win until i found out thar Embiid didnt play…

It's not a good win in that Philadelphia is something like 9-13 since Embiid went down with his injury. But OTOH, we have losses to some of the worst teams in the league this season so any win is a good win.

 

[95pro]

Thought this a good win until i found out thar Embiid didnt play…

And this has left it wide open for Maxey, who we limited to 7 points. Oubre had a field day based on his hustle alone, that is concerning as those types of players seem to rise to the occasion against our flat footed watching team.

 

[Bufalay]

This Suns team is the Deandre Ayton of teams. They are really good at some hard parts of the game and terrible at the easy parts. Even their good games aren't very impressive.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This Suns team is the Deandre Ayton of teams. They are really good at some hard parts of the game and terrible at the easy parts. Even their good games aren't very impressive.

With an almost complete churning of the roster and a new coaching staff, we probably needed half a season to expect all the parts to come together. But with all the injuries, we find ourselves near the end of the season without really getting that half season of preparation we needed. And it shows, almost nightly - this is a group with some talent but the lack of cohesion and leadership is all too obvious at times.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

this is a group with some talent but the lack of cohesion and leadership is all too obvious at times.

The lack of effort and will is all too obvious all the time. The carelessness and sloppy turnovers are just so maddening.

 

[Hoop Head]

With an almost complete churning of the roster and a new coaching staff, we probably needed half a season to expect all the parts to come together. But with all the injuries, we find ourselves near the end of the season without really getting that half season of preparation we needed. And it shows, almost nightly - this is a group with some talent but the lack of cohesion and leadership is all too obvious at times.

If this were a young team, I'd agree it would take half a season to really see what they are but this is a veteran team. Guys like Durant, Beal, Booker, Grayson, Gordon, Royce, and Nurkic are all veterans. We've seen cohesion and chemistry develop with players but the system is beyond flawed. Today's NBA doesn't afford teams a half a season to get in their groove. There's too much player movement for that. There are other teams that have made bigger strides in far less time that made similar changes to their team.

We're seeing it in Milwaukee where they brought in a coach who forced a system on his players rather than building a system around the player's strengths and he was fired midseason. The Suns probably should have done something similar. This system that Vogel has installed doesn't work with the personnel here. He needs more size and length. Rather than adjust it to play to the strengths of KD, Booker, Beal, Nurkic and Grayson though he's forcing them to continue running something they aren't ever going to excel in.

 

[Ronin]

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[Covert Rain]

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Should someone challenge the coach to try to realize his schemes/rotations are not working?

 

[Chaplin]

If this were a young team, I'd agree it would take half a season to really see what they are but this is a veteran team. Guys like Durant, Beal, Booker, Grayson, Gordon, Royce, and Nurkic are all veterans. We've seen cohesion and chemistry develop with players but the system is beyond flawed. Today's NBA doesn't afford teams a half a season to get in their groove. There's too much player movement for that. There are other teams that have made bigger strides in far less time that made similar changes to their team.

We're seeing it in Milwaukee where they brought in a coach who forced a system on his players rather than building a system around the player's strengths and he was fired midseason. The Suns probably should have done something similar. This system that Vogel has installed doesn't work with the personnel here. He needs more size and length. Rather than adjust it to play to the strengths of KD, Booker, Beal, Nurkic and Grayson though he's forcing them to continue running something they aren't ever going to excel in.

One of the problems is that young players are usually much more malleable, but vets have been who they are for so long it can sometimes be more difficult to mesh the way you want to at the speed you want to. Especially if they have to change the way they play.

We all want KD to be more like the kind of player that can take over a game and score 20 in a quarter. He's not that guy at age 35. He's efficient, but he doesn't take a lot of shots to get to that efficiency. Beal spent his entire career being the #1 on a bad team. Being the #3 on a good team is a brand new experience. And it doesn't help that the coaching staff seems to not coach outside of give it to Book and KD and let them cook.

 

[Joe Mama]

It's not a good win in that Philadelphia is something like 9-13 since Embiid went down with his injury. But OTOH, we have losses to some of the worst teams in the league this season so any win is a good win.

I realize Tobias Harris was out tonight, but how many of those 13 losses were without both Joel Embiid and Maxey??

 

[Yuma]

I think I have to take a couple game break from watching the suns. I can’t even enjoy a double digit win. That’s a me problem. Sorry for being a downer tonight.

I was enjoying watching Allen, and Dbook trying for the triple double.

 

[Yuma]

One of the problems is that young players are usually much more malleable, but vets have been who they are for so long it can sometimes be more difficult to mesh the way you want to at the speed you want to. Especially if they have to change the way they play.

We all want KD to be more like the kind of player that can take over a game and score 20 in a quarter. He's not that guy at age 35. He's efficient, but he doesn't take a lot of shots to get to that efficiency. Beal spent his entire career being the #1 on a bad team. Being the #3 on a good team is a brand new experience. And it doesn't help that the coaching staff seems to not coach outside of give it to Book and KD and let them cook.

I think that Beal needs to be WAY more assertive in scoring. KD is ok with a guy starting the offense. Book is getting doubled often. We need him to get into the paint and score or dish out of the paint. Grayson Allen will benefit more if Beal penetrates and dishes. Like you said he knows how to start the offense. He has been doing that for many seasons in Washington. He seems to defer to both Book and KD. On offense I think he is leaving a lot on the table.

 

[Yuma]

I have mentioned this several times before,,,, the Suns best
get to work to extend Grayson's contract for 2/3 more years, and
make him smile about staying a Sun.
Failure to do so,,, good offers will be flowing for his services elsewhere.
Loyalty has its limit$....

Gambo said it will be a 4 year $75 million contract.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think that Beal needs to be WAY more assertive in scoring. KD is ok with a guy starting the offense. Book is getting doubled often. We need him to get into the paint and score or dish out of the paint. Grayson Allen will benefit more if Beal penetrates and dishes. Like you said he knows how to start the offense. He has been doing that for many seasons in Washington. He seems to defer to both Book and KD. On offense I think he is leaving a lot on the table.

I would love to see Beal be the primary for setting up the offense and let Book come off the ball for a few games to see if that frees him up. Vogel won't do it though.

 

[Ronin]

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[Yuma]

I would love to see Beal be the primary for setting up the offense and let Book come off the ball for a few games to see if that frees him up. Vogel won't do it though.

Not sure if it's Vogel or Beal. Just watching Beal, it looks like he defers to Book and KD. Both of those guys should just tell him to do it. You know if Book and Beal wanted stuff to be a certain way, what's Vogel going to do? Sit Any of those guys? There were plenty of stories how Lebron got his way when Vogel was there. It worked since they got a championship with him. Someone needs to tell Book and KD, the only way that poo worked with Vogel is Lebron got his way. They need to take this SCH!!T over.

 

[Yuma]

I guess I am less likely to worry about a PG. At the end of the game you want your best players out there. If that includes three centers, 3 point guards, or 5 wings, those last minutes of the game you want all five of your best players on the floor, regardless of position. I watched LeBron basically take over the ball handling duties in the fourth quarter even if a PG is on the floor. Sometimes even if the PG brings it up, they will give it immediately to the star player and get out of the way. Who was playing PG when Jordan dominated the ball in the fourth quarter? Do want that guy with the ball or do you want Mike to handle it? DO you want a PG dominating the ball, or Larry Bird in the fourth? We have all seen great teams where the PG is an after thought. We have seen the opposite, too. There's no one way to skin a cat. On this team we have now, do you want to take Grayson Allen off the floor for a PG? I don't. I want Beal out there, too. It is what it is.

 

[Hoop Head]

I guess I am less likely to worry about a PG. At the end of the game you want your best players out there. If that includes three centers, 3 point guards, or 5 wings, those last minutes of the game you want all five of your best players on the floor, regardless of position. I watched LeBron basically take over the ball handling duties in the fourth quarter even if a PG is on the floor. Sometimes even if the PG brings it up, they will give it immediately to the star player and get out of the way. Who was playing PG when Jordan dominated the ball in the fourth quarter? Do want that guy with the ball or do you want Mike to handle it? DO you want a PG dominating the ball, or Larry Bird in the fourth? We have all seen great teams where the PG is an after thought. We have seen the opposite, too. There's no one way to skin a cat. On this team we have now, do you want to take Grayson Allen off the floor for a PG? I don't. I want Beal out there, too. It is what it is.

That's all fine and well but that doesn't seem to be why the vast majority of us pine for a PG. A PG running the 2nd unit would lower the pressure and playing of the big 3. We seem to get our teeth kicked in within the first 3-4 minutes of the 4th quarter when we're trying to get Booker, Beal, and KD some rest for the final stretch. Then the other team goes on a run and makes it a ball game so rather than send the big 3 in to stick the dagger they're having to rush them in to actually compete. It hasn't worked.

 

[taz02]

I guess I am less likely to worry about a PG. At the end of the game you want your best players out there. If that includes three centers, 3 point guards, or 5 wings, those last minutes of the game you want all five of your best players on the floor, regardless of position. I watched LeBron basically take over the ball handling duties in the fourth quarter even if a PG is on the floor. Sometimes even if the PG brings it up, they will give it immediately to the star player and get out of the way. Who was playing PG when Jordan dominated the ball in the fourth quarter? Do want that guy with the ball or do you want Mike to handle it? DO you want a PG dominating the ball, or Larry Bird in the fourth? We have all seen great teams where the PG is an after thought. We have seen the opposite, too. There's no one way to skin a cat. On this team we have now, do you want to take Grayson Allen off the floor for a PG? I don't. I want Beal out there, too. It is what

The problem is finding a PG good enough to take minutes from Beal or Allen. A scrub PG that plays 5 minutes a game isn't going to make them contenders.

The key, is turning Beal into a PG.

Thinking about Lebron and MJ teams. Both were/are clearly the best player on their respective teams, no question.

Who is the best suns player this season KD or Booker? This could contribute to the 4th qtr issues.

I also find it interesting that KD and Booker are at or below their career averages in turnovers for the season. Watching the games it feels like their turnovers are way up.

 

[Yuma]

The problem is finding a PG good enough to take minutes from Beal or Allen. A scrub PG that plays 5 minutes a game isn't going to make them contenders.

The key, is turning Beal into a PG.

Thinking about Lebron and MJ teams. Both were/are clearly the best player on their respective teams, no question.

Who is the best suns player this season KD or Booker? This could contribute to the 4th qtr issues.

I also find it interesting that KD and Booker are at or below their career averages in turnovers for the season. Watching the games it feels like their turnovers are way up.

It's funny how that works. KD playing the most minutes he's ever played since he was 25.