A Cardinals' Roadmap From the Cellar to Contender

[Mitch]

OK---it's one thing to predict another 5-11 season as I did---but---if the Cardinals act quickly to address their weaknesses---they can significantly improve their makeup and their approach---and in doing so---they can ride the road to the NFC West Championship and possibly beyond. As Andy Dufresne says, "Hope is a good thing, Red."

Approach

The coaches need to change their modus operandi and what they focus on in practice. Examples:

1. One thing Whiz focuses on a lot is red zone offense and defense. As a result, even last year, the Cardinals were pretty decent in the red zone.

2. STs coach Kevin Spencer, imo, the best prepared and most organized coach on the staff, makes the best of his practice time---and it shows. The Cardinals' STs have never been this consistently solid.

But---here are areas that have not been stressed nearly enough:

1. Tackling.
2. Blocking.
3. Pass Coverage Assignments Synchronization and Execution.
4. Third Down Offense and Defense.
5. Chipping and Double Teaming on Offense and Defense.
6. Run Offense and Run Defense.
7. Pass Deflecting & Altering.
8. Screen Pass Offense and Defense.
9. Squeezing the Slant Pass.
10. Deep Third Pass and Pursuit Angles.

Pre-Season Games

if it were up to me---I would make the first two pre-season games an audition for the younger players to see who deserves to make the roster and the practice squad. I wouldn't even play any of the veteran starters.

I would save that for the 3rd pre-season game---where I would have the starters play a half. By then they would have had over 4 weeks of practice, conditioning and strengthening.

I would also have the starters play two series on offense and defense in the 4th pre-season game.

Personnel

QB: I really like the fact that Whiz is turning Kevin Kolb loose---right now it's fine that he is making mistakes. I love what Wynton Marsalis has to say about mistakes: "If you are not making mistakes---you are not trying." The last thing Whiz and the Cardinals need is for Kolb to become tentative. As his understanding of the offense and his timing improves, the mistakes will decrease. Meanwhile, keep slinging the ball, Kolbber!

It should be an interesting battle for #3 QB. Max Hall plays with the kind of tenacity and tempo that Whiz likes. If he can hold up physically---he is going to stick.

RB: Ryan Williams is the clear-cut starter. There is no doubt. Where there is still doubt---is what we can expect from Beanie Wells. Seeing as LaRod Stephens-Howling is strictly a situational RB, the Cardinals need to add another RB to the mix. I am eager to see how much Alfonso Smith has improved in a year---but just in case, I would try to sign RB Jason Snelling (5-11, 233, 27, 5, Virginia, ATL) or Mike Bell (6-0, 225, 28, 6, Arizona, CLE).

We are going to need help here.

OT: We are in trouble here. Something needs to be done. I keep remembering what a good job Jeremy Bridges did at LT versus Jared Allen a couple of years ago---it was the best pass protection from a Cardinal LT in ages. What Bridges has is more agility and a more natural fan and slide technique. If we are keeping the same personnel, moving Bridges to LT makes the most sense to me.

Then I would like to see a four man battle between Brandon Keith, Levi Brown, Anthony Batiste and Pork Chop Womack for the RT spot. If they all struggle---I wonder if Damien Woody (6-3, 327, 33, 13, Boston College, NYJ) has recovered from his Achilles injury. Still wonder too about Jared Gaither and Max Starks.

I would also love to see what "Brown could do" for us at RG. I know it's just a pipe dream---but---I am hanging on to it.

NT: Help has to be on the way and it cannot be from Bryan Robinson. There are some veterans still unsigned: Pat Williams (6-3, 317, 38, 15, Texas A&M, MIN), Jamal Williams (6-3, 348, 35, 14, Oklahoma St. DEN), John Henderson (6-7, 335, 32, 10, Tennessee, OAK), Marcus Stroud (6-6, 310, 34, 11, Georgia, NE). Maybe one of these 4 has 15-17 snaps a game left in the tank. It's well worth the roll of the dice to take a chance.

I know this will sound crazy---yet---out of curiosity---I would love to see what Deuce Lutui would look like at NT. At his size---6-4, 375---Deuce would be tough to move---plus, for a man his size he has always had pretty good feet. Samoans, because of their bulk and low center of gravity tend to make good NTs. Why not take a look? Imagine how crazy the players would be if Deuce actually was lit a fire at NT?

OLB: If Ray Horton doesn't turn Joey Porter strictly into a situational edge rusher in favor of starting O'Brien Schofield at WOLB---we are in trouble. Porter will wear down fast again and he won't be able to rush the passer well when we need him. Make Porter and Vonnie Holliday the rush DEs in the 4 man line. But the guy who may surprise---and it would be a huge bonus if he did---is Brandon Sharpe (6-3, 254). Hoping too to see edge speed from Cyril Obiozor ((6-4, 249).

One UFA I have my eye on is DE Stylez G. White (6-3, 270, 32, 5, Minnesota, TB) who started a bunch of games for the Bucs last year and got good pressure on the QB. I think he wound up with 4.5 sacks and a number of QB pressures.

I still like Matt Roth (6-4, 275, 28, 7, Iowa, CLE) as a situational rusher. This kid plays hard---keep him fresh and turn him loose in the 4 man rush and he will be worth every dollar.

It's going to be hard for Horton to relegate Clark Haggans to 2nd string---but---unless Haggans is rejuvenated---the time has come. The problem is no one knows what to expect from Will Davis or rookie Sam Acho,. This is why I look at an athletic and very consistent player like Ben Leber (6-3, 244, 32, 10, Kansas St. MIN), who thrives in zone coverages and does a good job setting the edge. He would be a significant upgrade as a two down starter.

SS: We have to sign Dashon Goldston or Atari Bigby. Have to. Otherwise, it would make sense to develop a hybrid box SS role for Daryl Washington. Washington brings two tremendous assets to that role---he is an explosive blitzer---and he can run stride for stride with TEs---and in this division, there will be a need at times to do just that as we attempt to cover Zack Miller, Vernon Davis and Lance Kendricks. Yikes.

CB: With Michael Adams ailing---how about adding Anthony Madison (5-9, 180, 29, 6, Alabama, PIT). Knows the system---can step right in. Or how's about Josh Bell (5-11, 180, 26, 4, Baylor, GB) or Ellis Hobbs (5-9, 195, 28, 7, Iowa St. PHI).

The Cardinals have $14.6M to work with. Pay the gas and the toll money---get us back on the road to being contenders. Do what it takes. Show us Cardinals' management that you are what you say you are: all-in.

 

[Duckjake]

It should be an interesting battle for #3 QB. Max Hall plays with the kind of tenacity and tempo that Whiz likes. If he can hold up physically---he is going to stick.

That's the trouble with Hall. He looks great in camp because the bigs are just tapping him. As soon as they start hitting for real he's finished.

 

[Mitch]

That's the trouble with Hall. He looks great in camp because the bigs are just tapping him. As soon as they start hitting for real he's finished.

I bet you he lifted weights like a madman. Hall is not one for lack of preparation.

 

[TRW]

Lifting weights doesn't add height or make one's hands larger...Max Hall has NO business even being in an NFL training camp.

Sorry Mitch, but having a huge heart and tenacity doesn't always work when you are just not physically gifted enough to play with the big boys.

If Max is on the team in any capacity this season it is a wasted roster spot IMO.

I think that your concerns on the OLine are well founded as well as the secondary issues (especially with AW hurt). I don't think there will be a that significantly better pass rush this season to help them out much.

Good stuff Mitch.

 

[Mitch]

Lifting weights doesn't add height or make one's hands larger...Max Hall has NO business even being in an NFL training camp.

Sorry Mitch, but having a huge heart and tenacity doesn't always work when you are just not physically gifted enough to play with the big boys.

If Max is on the team in any capacity this season it is a wasted roster spot IMO.

I think that your concerns on the OLine are well founded as well as the secondary issues (especially with AW hurt). I don't think there will be a that significantly better pass rush this season to help them out much.

Good stuff Mitch.

TRW---you make sense about Hall (I too started to rule him out last year)---but all I am saying is, perhaps we shouldn't rule him out completely. He's not a rookie anymore and all QBs need time to develop. Other smaller QBs have worked their way into lineups. Let's see how he plays this pre-season. Hall is not just all heart---he has skills.

Now---mind you---we are talking about the #3 QB spot too.

 

[Early]

TRW---you make sense about Hall (I too started to rule him out last year)---but all I am saying is, perhaps we shouldn't rule him out completely. He's not a rookie anymore and all QBs need time to develop. Other smaller QBs have worked their way into lineups. Let's see how he plays this pre-season. Hall is not just all heart---he has skills.

Now---mind you---we are talking about the #3 QB spot too.

I completely agree, QB's of similar size are/have been very good in this league. It's not about that at all.

It's more a toughness issue, but that was expected in his first year. After all the hits, suddenly the fear in his eyes showed up pre-snap, he got confused and was lost and didn't look like a person that wanted to take the snap. He couldn't read the defenses, couldn't think clearly, didn't know where the pressure came from, if he was 6-7, it wouldn't have helped at all. It was obvious, everything was too much for him. It was not a physical issue, much more a mental one. He does have some skills and most definitely alot of heart and leadership. He can throw it accurately and some of his deep passes to Fitz reminded me of Warner, they were on a spot were only the WR could get it.

However, the mental part of the game is hard to learn in practice and it may take alot of time or never for him to get all this.

Alot of good points on how to fix the team Mitch. I disagree only on the Bridges part. I remember I was re-watching every single matchup in that game and 9 out of 10 times he got outside help, either a TE or RB or a Guard inside. I counted only very few plays where he was in single matchup with Allen and in two cases Jared destroyed him literally. In the others the play was designed to be a quick pass to avoid the rush. Jared may have not got a sack, but we did play with a man short because we needed to double the left side. If he was left alone all game long, Allen would have made the NFL single game sack record.

I think that illustrates well what we need to do this coming year and what we never have done usually with Levi. Chipping with RB's and TE's and helping the tackles in every possible way, inside or outside.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Ryan Williams is the clear-cut starter?????? Maybe you should let Whiz know that.
While we're switching Lutui to NT, Levi to RG, why not play Fitz a FS?

 

[Early]

From the camp reports, it seems that Bartel is playing better than Hall and may win the #3 QB spot.

 

[Duckjake]

1 TD 6 Interceptions sacked 14 times in only 78 attempts 4.7ypa was getting bounced around like a rag doll. Knocked out of the lineup after only 3 games.

The last QB I remember that was Hall's size who was successful was Eddie LeBaron.

He may be a great kid but he needs to look for a career in Arena Football or something before he gets seriously injured.

 

[Duckjake]

Ryan Williams is the clear-cut starter?????? Maybe you should let Whiz know that.
While we're switching Lutui to NT, Levi to RG, why not play Fitz a FS?

You know with Fitz' sick ball skills that might be a really good idea. Rhodes could fill in for ADub at SS.

I can see it now. Toler's beat, the WR is running wide open, when suddenly here comes Larry and 5 yards in front of the WR leaps 7' in the air, grabs the pass, and steals a TD from the Rams.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Personnel

RB: Ryan Williams is the clear-cut starter. There is no doubt.

No doubt in your mind, but Whiz has said that it's Beanie's job to lose, and that hasn't happened, yet.

OT: We are in trouble here. Something needs to be done. I keep remembering what a good job Jeremy Bridges did at LT versus Jared Allen a couple of years ago---it was the best pass protection from a Cardinal LT in ages.

Bridges was continually helped against Allen by a TE and a chipping running back. If he's a starter at beginning of year, it will be on the right side. The Coach is clear: Levi is the LT.

NT: Help has to be on the way and it cannot be from Bryan Robinson. There are some veterans still unsigned: Pat Williams (6-3, 317, 38, 15, Texas A&M, MIN), Jamal Williams (6-3, 348, 35, 14, Oklahoma St. DEN), John Henderson (6-7, 335, 32, 10, Tennessee, OAK), Marcus Stroud (6-6, 310, 34, 11, Georgia, NE). Maybe one of these 4 has 15-17 snaps a game left in the tank. It's well worth the roll of the dice to take a chance.

Agree with all suggestions, but won't be offended if Robinson is brought back. He uses his hands well and stays on his feet. It wouldn't be the worst choice.

I know this will sound crazy---yet---out of curiosity---I would love to see what Deuce Lutui would look like at NT. At his size---6-4, 375---Deuce would be tough to move---plus, for a man his size he has always had pretty good feet. Samoans, because of their bulk and low center of gravity tend to make good NTs. Why not take a look? Imagine how crazy the players would be if Deuce actually was lit a fire at NT?

Well, the old Walter is back. Moving O-lineman to the "D". (lol)

OLB:

I still like Matt Roth (6-4, 275, 28, 7, Iowa, CLE) as a situational rusher. This kid plays hard---keep him fresh and turn him loose in the 4 man rush and he will be worth every dollar.

Roth as a situational pass rusher is a waste of his talent, which is being tough against the run and offering some measure of pressure. He's not a situational pass rusher.

It's going to be hard for Horton to relegate Clark Haggans to 2nd string---but---unless Haggans is rejuvenated---the time has come. The problem is no one knows what to expect from Will Davis or rookie Sam Acho,. This is why I look at an athletic and very consistent player like Ben Leber (6-3, 244, 32, 10, Kansas St. MIN), who thrives in zone coverages and does a good job setting the edge. He would be a significant upgrade as a two down starter.

Ben Leber is a WEAK side LB, and his inability to set the edge is why he's looking for work.

SS: We have to sign Dashon Goldston or Atari Bigby. Have to. Otherwise, it would make sense to develop a hybrid box SS role for Daryl Washington. Washington brings two tremendous assets to that role---he is an explosive blitzer---and he can run stride for stride with TEs---and in this division, there will be a need at times to do just that as we attempt to cover Zack Miller, Vernon Davis and Lance Kendricks. Yikes.

Yikes! is right... Washington is our WILB. Goldston is a FS. Bigby as an "in the box" SS does make sense.

CB: With Michael Adams ailing---how about adding Anthony Madison (5-9, 180, 29, 6, Alabama, PIT). Knows the system---can step right in. Or how's about Josh Bell (5-11, 180, 26, 4, Baylor, GB) or Ellis Hobbs (5-9, 195, 28, 7, Iowa St. PHI).

How about just letting Jefferson do the job!

cccccc

 

[Early]

The last QB I remember that was Hall's size who was successful was Eddie LeBaron.
.

He is bigger than Drew Brees, 6-1 vs- 6-0. That's just one contemporary example. It's not about size or arm strength, the mental part is 99 percent.

At some point you will get issues, let's say if you are 5-5 it would be impossible to see the field at all.

But at 6-1, you can see the field and if you are good enough QB you can become a HOF if you grasp the mental part of the game.

Hall was lost reading the complicated NFL defenses. He didn't know where to go with the football. He can throw it, he has enough size to play, he is fairly accurate, he does have leadership and heart. He jus't can't grasp the mental part of play calling and reading defenses and therefore he sucked. Skelton had the exact same problem and that's why he can't play as well. 9 out of 10 times, he also didn't know where to go with the football, he couldn't read the game. To fast and complex for both of them.

 

[Reddog]

He is bigger than Drew Brees, 6-1 vs- 6-0. That's just one contemporary example. It's not about size or arm strength, the mental part is 99 percent.

No he is not. Max is maybe 5' 11". Last year when they played the Saints Brees was clearly taller than him in post game meeting photos.

 

[Early]

No he is not. Max is maybe 5' 11". Last year when they played the Saints Brees was clearly taller than him in post game meeting photos.

He is listed as 6-1 on just about every site I can find. Including the teams website. Yeah, who knows how the photos were taken,in which situation, i guess it's much more accurate to see the measurement that are done on each individually. If he was measured to 6-1, he is 6-1.

Even if he was 5-11, it's a incredibly small difference to what many HOF QB's are. He can and he did still see the field and can throw over the line. What he failed in was the mental part of the game.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Even if he was 5-11, it's a incredibly small difference to what many HOF QB's are. He can and he did still see the field and can throw over the line. What he failed in was the mental part of the game.

but many of the HOF QB's were playing when a "big" lineman was about 6'2 265. Today there are some RB's that size.

 

[Early]

but many of the HOF QB's were playing when a "big" lineman was about 6'2 265. Today there are some RB's that size.

and how do you explain Drew Brees? It's just important to see above the line and all these guys can do that, if not, they would never have completed a pass in their life. All Hall's mistakes and i have analyzed each and single of his throws were due to inability to read a defense and make the right throw. It had nothing to do with inability to see over the line, not even close.

It has nothing to do with the game. If it had that big impact, Brees would never have been that good.

It has a none or negligible effect.

Toughness was also Hall's problem, after the hits he took, he looked scared and that is also irrespective of the size. There are some 6-5 QB's being scared and than there is a 6-0 in Brees that can take any shot and is never showing fear.

That's what the game is about.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

The only analysis neede is Drew Brees is an allpro QB while Max Hall stinks. Brees is the anamoly just like when people use Tom Brady as a 6th round QB for a comparison. Facts are a taller QB has an advantage.

 

[Early]

The only analysis neede is Drew Brees is an allpro QB while Max Hall stinks. Brees is the anamoly just like when people use Tom Brady as a 6th round QB for a comparison. Facts are a taller QB has an advantage.

Ok so we agree, the difference between Brees and Hall is that Brees understands the game and is a great QB mentally and because of his toughness, and that Hall doesn't have those skills. Physically, they are almost identical. Mentally they are very different.

But we don't agree in the fact that most of the HOF QB's wouldn't be great today. I think most of them that are this "small" size, would in fact just that. They were much tougher and cerebral than today's QB's. Jonhny Unitas had the same height as Brees and Hall and was 10 pounds lighter, and he would rip apart this league right now. I have seen enough of his games to believe that. Just one of many examples.

It's up in the brain, not in the body. If Hall was 5-4 and couldn't see a damn thing above the line, sure, i would agree. But as long as you can see above the line so you can process what is going on, it really doesn't matter much, it's a negligible detail that shouldn't even be discussed.

 

[Early]

but many of the HOF QB's were playing when a "big" lineman was about 6'2 265. Today there are some RB's that size.

Just another example, very appropriate one. Lineman were big also in the 80's, that's 30 years ago. The weight has increased with time much more than the height of the lineman in average. Have you seen Theismann play? He is 6-0 compared to Hall's 6-1 and he is 20 lb less than Hall.

His Offensive Line?

LT - George Stark 6-5
LG - Rus Grimm 6-3
C - Jeff Bostic 6-3
RG - Mark May 6-6
RT- Joe Jacoby 6-7

Both of their TE's were 6-4.

He did fine. Because he actually had the necessary skills for the game. These guys in front of him were just as if not taller than our O-Line in average.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ok so we agree, the difference between Brees and Hall is that Brees understands the game and is a great QB mentally and because of his toughness, and that Hall doesn't have those skills. Physically, they are almost identical.

physically, I'm almost identical because I'm 5'10... and Brees has a MUCH stronger arm than the Max Hall of Shame.

Mentally they are very different.

But we don't agree in the fact that most of the HOF QB's wouldn't be great today. I think most of them that are this "small" size, would in fact just that. They were much tougher and cerebral than today's QB's. Jonhny Unitas had the same height as Brees and Hall and was 10 pounds lighter, and he would rip apart this league right now. I have seen enough of his games to believe that. Just one of many examples.

of guys who played against guys who were smaller, slower and less athletic.

It's up in the brain, not in the body.

for 99% of the league it's BOTH.

If Hall was 5-4 and couldn't see a damn thing above the line, sure, i would agree. But as long as you can see above the line so you can process what is going on, it really doesn't matter much, it's a negligible detail that shouldn't even be discussed.

in the NFL, size matters.

 

[Early]

physically, I'm almost identical because I'm 5'10... and Brees has a MUCH stronger arm than the Max Hall of Shame.



of guys who played against guys who were smaller, slower and less athletic.



for 99% of the league it's BOTH.



in the NFL, size matters.

Oh, so now it's arm strength. This keeps getting better and better. A "skill" just as much overrated as size. Bill Walsh, what he quoted most in his entire career was that the ball had to be thrown soft and catchable. With timing. That was the most important part.

QB position is about toughness and mental processing of the game and accuracy. Has absolutely nothing, or in worst case, a negligible effect of size and arm strength. Quick release and a soft throw is 100 times better than a hard thrown ball with slow release.

What greatest QB's in history share in common is these skills that i just mentioned. Not size and arm strength, they are not the common for the group.

 

[Duckjake]

Sorry but when Hall got hit it looked like he was about to get broken in half.

Hall can't see what the heck is going on. Skelton was sacked 9 times in almost twice as many attempts. Hall is not just too short he's too light. Just look at the picture of Bartel, Skelton, and Hall.

Why have the coaches brought him back? Who knows, but these are the guys who brought in Brian St.Pierre and paid him a million dollars and DeWreck Anderson for $5million so.....

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

It doesn't matter what size you are. Roethlisberger is just as easy to sack as Max Hall .

 

[Early]

Sorry but when Hall got hit it looked like he was about to get broken in half.

Hall can't see what the heck is going on. Skelton was sacked 9 times in almost twice as many attempts. Hall is not just too short he's too light. Just look at the picture of Bartel, Skelton, and Hall.

Why have the coaches brought him back? Who knows, but these are the guys who brought in Brian St.Pierre and paid him a million dollars and DeWreck Anderson for $5million so.....

Haven't you seen New Orleans game and the hit on Warner? I can't remember how many times he looked like he was going to die out there for all those years. He is just mentally much better QB and doesn't get impact from all the hits. Same with Brees that is lighter and even more fragile than Hall, he just reads the game 100 times better and doesn't allow those collisions and when they happen, he rebounds immediately.

Hall got scared after all the beating. Look in his eyes. He is not a tough player for the NFL. It has nothing to do with size. He got scared and completely forgot the plays and defensive alignments and made stupid throws that has nothing to do with his size.

Then, the game gets faster. Much faster.

 

[Early]

It doesn't matter what size you are. Roethlisberger is just as easy to sack as Max Hall .

Tarkenton was much harder to sack than Roethlisberger. What was he, 6-0 if i remember? It's true - size has nothing to do with it.

Just one more example for you