A Chilling Vision of Things to Come

[Stout]

I have attached links discussing Schaubs contract info. My impression is that if we do a similar deal for Kolb that the Cards won't be financially handcuffed if after a year we decide he isn't the answer.

http://www.examiner.com/houston-texans-in-houston/the-truth-about-matt-schaub-s-contract

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2808100

Obviously with our ownerships history Whiz may have a hard time saying sorry I wasted money and two 2nd rd picks but we need to cut him loose now to minimize the damage. It would hurt but wouldn't stop us from drafting a QB in 2012 in rd1. By then the slotting should be in place so the financial impact of drafting a QB high won't be as bad as in the past.

So say you're Kevin Kolb, and the Eagles give the Cards permission to talk contract with you as a precursor to a trade. Why would you accept any kind of incentive laden deal? Why wouldn't you want a big contract? If the Cards don't want to give you one, sit on the bench, collect your paycheck, become a free agent, and cash in. It's a no-lose situation for Kolb. There is NO FLIPPING WAY he will accept a modest contract. He has all the leverage. NOT happening.

 

[desertdawg]

So say you're Kevin Kolb, and the Eagles give the Cards permission to talk contract with you as a precursor to a trade. Why would you accept any kind of incentive laden deal? Why wouldn't you want a big contract? If the Cards don't want to give you one, sit on the bench, collect your paycheck, become a free agent, and cash in. It's a no-lose situation for Kolb. There is NO FLIPPING WAY he will accept a modest contract. He has all the leverage. NOT happening.

Such a spin master.

You know about as much as I do when it comes to Kolb's possible contract. (that aint jack)

So if he "sat on the bench to collect his paycheck, waiting to become a free agent", how would that get him more money? It would hurt his value if anything.

He wants to start now, not next year, that's kinda the point. QBs make the kind of money your talking about after proving themselves, but your going as if we will pay him Brady dollars. I have a feeling no matter what we pay him, it will be too much in your eyes because your always right homie.
But spin away my dizzy friend, it is exciting.

 

[Duckjake]

Such a spin master.

You know about as much as I do when it comes to Kolb's possible contract. (that aint jack)

So if he "sat on the bench to collect his paycheck, waiting to become a free agent", how would that get him more money? It would hurt his value if anything.

He wants to start now, not next year, that's kinda the point. QBs make the kind of money your talking about after proving themselves, but your going as if we will pay him Brady dollars. I have a feeling no matter what we pay him, it will be too much in your eyes because your always right homie.
But spin away my dizzy friend, it is exciting.

Have to agree with Stout. QBs are at a premium and get big money. All Kolb has to do is sit and watch and he'll be the hottest FA QB on the market in 2012. How much he'll be paid will make us all dizzy. What did Brees get? 6 years $60 million? Kolb should get at least half that.

 

[desertdawg]

Have to agree with Stout. QBs are at a premium and get big money. All Kolb has to do is sit and watch and he'll be the hottest FA QB on the market in 2012. How much he'll be paid will make us all dizzy. What did Brees get? 6 years $60 million? Kolb should get at least half that.

I have no clue what the numbers would be but there is a difference between the guaranteed money and the big dizzy number everyone is bracing for. Or for how many years, or what how incentive based it will be. I think we will pay alot, but like you said, others will if we don't.

 

[Cardiac]

So say you're Kevin Kolb, and the Eagles give the Cards permission to talk contract with you as a precursor to a trade. Why would you accept any kind of incentive laden deal? Why wouldn't you want a big contract? If the Cards don't want to give you one, sit on the bench, collect your paycheck, become a free agent, and cash in. It's a no-lose situation for Kolb. There is NO FLIPPING WAY he will accept a modest contract. He has all the leverage. NOT happening.

Because you are a self confident man who feels that he will make all the incentives. Maybe incentives isn't the correct verbage. Maybe the deal that Schawb took looks good and in the context you say, "hell yes they will want me on the team as their starter for the next 8 years so that contract makes total sense to me. If I don't take the deal then I spend another year on the bench in the prime of my career and that is UNACCEPTABLE. Give me a chance to start and I'll blow your doors off.

Incentive deals don't mean that the player makes nothing or a ton of money. In this case they mean I get some good quaranteed money up front with a chance to make a TON of money when I play as I expect to play.

 

[kerouac9]

I have attached links discussing Schaubs contract info. My impression is that if we do a similar deal for Kolb that the Cards won't be financially handcuffed if after a year we decide he isn't the answer.

http://www.examiner.com/houston-texans-in-houston/the-truth-about-matt-schaub-s-contract

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2808100

Obviously with our ownerships history Whiz may have a hard time saying sorry I wasted money and two 2nd rd picks but we need to cut him loose now to minimize the damage. It would hurt but wouldn't stop us from drafting a QB in 2012 in rd1. By then the slotting should be in place so the financial impact of drafting a QB high won't be as bad as in the past.

Schaub's contract is five years old; that's never going to happen. I'm sure that the Vikings would like to use Barry Sanders's last contract as the starting point for negotiations with Adrian Peterson. The starting point is Matt Cassel and Aaron Rodgers (who had done less than Kolb at this point when he signed his extension).

 

[Stout]

Kolb is in a position of bargaining power. He won't go incentive laden, because that's not what players in that position in the NFL do, and his agent certainly will advise him against being so dumb. As Duck said, he will be the hottest QB commodity on the market next offseason if he stays with the Eagles, so why take a modest contract now? It will cost to sign him, and cost enough that he WILL be our QB for a few years. That's what you have to accept if you want to trade for him.

 

[JeffGollin]

There are two separate but related issues here:

1. How much money Kolb will expect?

2. What players or draft picks the Eagles will insist on?

I don't really care one way or another what Kolb would be paid (The Cards have a budget and accountants to work that stuff out). If he can make more-than, the-same-as, half-as-much or one-quarter as much as Brees - God bless him.

What I do care a lot about is how much we'd have to give up to get him.

The questions I keep asking myself are (1) Is Kolb really good enough to be the final missing piece of the puzzle that will get us back to the Super Bowl? (2) How sure are we about this one way or another. (3) If the answer is "yes, we're sure he's our guy", how much should be willing to give up to get him? and (4) If we're not sure, how much should we be willing to give up under those circumstances?

I come down on the south-side of #4. Which means - "Maybe a 2nd round pick in 2012."

Maybe.

 

[Cardiac]

Schaub's contract is five years old; that's never going to happen. I'm sure that the Vikings would like to use Barry Sanders's last contract as the starting point for negotiations with Adrian Peterson. The starting point is Matt Cassel and Aaron Rodgers (who had done less than Kolb at this point when he signed his extension).

Cute.


Cassel had a year of play that earned him his contract.

Rodgers had 3 years with the Packers and then 7 consecutive starts with a 98 passer rating before getting his extension.

Kolb has seven starts with mixed results and a 70 something passer rating.

Again I don't think it's set in stone that he will require the same type of contract, but I do allow for that possibility. If he does require a Rodgers type contract then I agree with the OP and I'd rather get Bulger or Hassleback.

 

[john h]

More and more, I'm feeling that our starting QB will be Skelton. (My gut tells me that, in absolute terms, when you line him up next to Kolb or Bulger, he comes up best).

With that assessment comes an assumption of faith - that the 2011 Skelton will be a somewhat improved version of the 2010 Skelton - the question being "will he improve enough?"

Based on all that's happened (i.e. the draft, lockout etc.) my strategy right now would be to: (1) Roll the dice that Skelton will improve enough so that we could win with him. (2) Sign a veteran to push (and serve as insurance for) Skelton. (3) If Skelton doesn't emerge as "our guy" for the foreseeable future, draft the best available QB in 2012.

Icing on the cake would be if we could sign Hasslebeck - who's still good enough to buy us an additional year of time to develop and evaluate Skelton.

I do not think Skelton will be our starter but I had just as soon start him as trade for Kolb for a #1 and a big contract/salary. The chances are as good with Skelton as with Kolb because neither have a lot of experience and remain unknowns. I think the public sort of demands the team sign someone or they risk looking like idiots if Skelton does not work out. At this point I am beginning to think I really do not care which one of these guys they sign as long as they do not overpay and leave us less money to sign other players. I sure see no one out there I want to give up my #1 pick for as we are likely going to have a top ten pick next year.

 

[JeffGollin]

I do not think Skelton will be our starter but I had just as soon start him as trade for Kolb for a #1 and a big contract/salary. The chances are as good with Skelton as with Kolb because neither have a lot of experience and remain unknowns. I think the public sort of demands the team sign someone or they risk looking like idiots if Skelton does not work out. At this point I am beginning to think I really do not care which one of these guys they sign as long as they do not overpay and leave us less money to sign other players. I sure see no one out there I want to give up my #1 pick for as we are likely going to have a top ten pick next year.

Precisely.

PS. Hope you're making out OK over there in Tornado Alley.

 

[desertdawg]

Kolb was worth a second round pick when he was drafted. With the time that he has spent in the NFL, and the knowledge/experience that comes with being in the league, having played in some games, and being considered not a bust... how he he still only worth a second round pick?

This is my last/only Kolb post of the day, I'm trying to cut down on defending some guy who might not even be a Cardinal. The lockout could have us eating eachother if we aren't careful.

But it is funny to me, the same posteneros who claim we are the cheapest team in the League are absolutely positively sure that we will overpay Kolb.

We don't know anything yet. I like Skelton too but he isn't exactly ready for the season Whiz needs to keep his job and to keep Larry here. Kolb has a better shot of having that type of season, or atleast show that he can take the club in a positive direction to buy Whiz another year.

If Kolb sucks, we would find out right around the time Skelton should be ready. It would suck for sure, but I like that the Cards are trying.

So rain your gloom, kick him in the groin, and protest a contract that isn't written...we root for the same team and this is the best place to do it. You know me, until we suck ass again for sure, Ill stick with the koolaid.

 

[Totally_Red]

Kolb was worth a second round pick when he was drafted. With the time that he has spent in the NFL, and the knowledge/experience that comes with being in the league, having played in some games, and being considered not a bust... how he he still only worth a second round pick?

This is my last/only Kolb post of the day, I'm trying to cut down on defending some guy who might not even be a Cardinal. The lockout could have us eating eachother if we aren't careful.

But it is funny to me, the same posteneros who claim we are the cheapest team in the League are absolutely positively sure that we will overpay Kolb.

We don't know anything yet. I like Skelton too but he isn't exactly ready for the season Whiz needs to keep his job and to keep Larry here. Kolb has a better shot of having that type of season, or atleast show that he can take the club in a positive direction to buy Whiz another year.

If Kolb sucks, we would find out right around the time Skelton should be ready. It would suck for sure, but I like that the Cards are trying.

So rain your gloom, kick him in the groin, and protest a contract that isn't written...we root for the same team and this is the best place to do it. You know me, until we suck ass again for sure, Ill stick with the koolaid.

Kob was taken in the second round. Whether or not he was worth the pick is still up in the air as far as I'm concerned. Wikipedia says he was the 6th rated QB in the 2007 draft by NFLDrafScout.com and was projected as a 3rd or 4th round value. The fact that Andy Reid and the Eagles always have a boatload of draft picks means they can draft a player they really like earlier than his value would indicate.

I accept that he probably is worth a 2nd-rounder. I don't accept that he's worth a first rounder and a big contract. I just don't consider him at the same talent level as Sam Bradford, Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, or even, Josh Freeman, which is what he should be at that cost.

But if the Cardinals acquire him, I hope he becomes that kind of elite quarterback.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Kolb

Kolb was rated as the sixth-best quarterback in the 2007 NFL Draft by NFLDraftScout.com, and was projected to be drafted in the third or fourth round

 

[Duckjake]

B

ut it is funny to me, the same posteneros who claim we are the cheapest team in the League are absolutely positively sure that we will overpay Kolb.

Not funny at all. The Cards have been overpaying Free Agents for years. Having to sign them because they lost their draft picks because they were too cheap to extend them.

Then of course after paying the FA too much money they let him go after one year.

Let the prime time guys go and replace them with past their prime guys. It's a Cardinal tradition.



The Cards were horrendous last year. Until they don't suck anymore I'm not drinking the kool-aid. Well maybe a little. There is some light on the horizon in our young guys on the defense. If they get to play that is.

 

[Totally_Red]

B

Not funny at all. The Cards have been overpaying Free Agents for years. Having to sign them because they lost their draft picks because they were too cheap to extend them.

Then of course after paying the FA too much money they let him go after one year.

Let the prime time guys go and replace them with past their prime guys. It's a Cardinal tradition.



The Cards were horrendous last year. Until they don't suck anymore I'm not drinking the kool-aid. Well maybe a little. There is some light on the horizon in our young guys on the defense. If they get to play that is.

Are you really trying to say that Karlos Dansby is a better player than Paris Lenon?

 

[JeffGollin]

Where a player was drafted is irrelevant - once he's on the roster, the only thing that matters is: "What can he do for us right now and in the immediate future?

Specific to the Cardinals - What will Kolb be expected to do for us right now and in the immediate future?

We don't know the answer to that question from the perspective of the Cardinal FO, but from my distant and amateur vantage point, I'm skeptical that Kolb can satisfactorily deliver the goods - (especially if we had to give up more than one 2nd round pick).