A Few Thoughts on the Off-Season

[MadCardDisease]

This is utter nonsense.

Also, Kevin Minter was picked 9 spots ahead of Jamie Collins. So, basically a good pick all around.

Jamie Collins is going to be a stud. The more he plays the better he will get.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

This is utter nonsense.

Also, Kevin Minter was picked 9 spots ahead of Jamie Collins. So, basically a good pick all around.

Guy has one good game on a team that has snaps available (unlike Minter) and now our ILB is a bust. Talk about Recency Bias.

Collins may turn out good. Doesn't mean Minter isn't a future starter and Good player on this team. Hopefully you scouted him as we'll as you did Washington...

 

[kerouac9]

Guy has one good game on a team that has snaps available (unlike Minter) and now our ILB is a bust. Talk about Recency Bias.

Collins may turn out good. Doesn't mean Minter isn't a future starter and Good player on this team. Hopefully you scouted him as we'll as you did Washington...

Whatever. A least the guy has one good game. I just hope that you scouted Minter better than you did Kolb, Anderson, Leinart, Max Hall, etc., etc.

Why would you want an outside linebacker who can cover tight ends 20 yards downfield when you could have a two-down inside linebacker?

 

[desertdawg]

Whatever. A least the guy has one good game. I just hope that you scouted Minter better than you did Kolb, Anderson, Leinart, Max Hall, etc., etc.

Why would you want an outside linebacker who can cover tight ends 20 yards downfield when you could have a two-down inside linebacker?

Minter is good stuff, and he just watched a team show how it's done, first hand after coming from a successful program. I like him, I hope he doesn't get any Kolbcussions.

 

[kerouac9]

Minter is good stuff, and he just watched a team show how it's done, first hand after coming from a successful program. I like him, I hope he doesn't get any Kolbcussions.

I'm actually agnostic on Minter. I'm not saying that the pick was a mistake--it's clearly too soon to judge Minter. But it's problematic from a management standpoint to burn a year of cost-controlled production from a second-round pick. If he somehow DOES turn into Navorro Bowman, then you're a year closer to having to extend him.

Again, though, if he'd shown that he was a phenom in OTAs, we probably wouldn't have been sniffing around Karlos Dansby to begin with.

 

[desertdawg]

I'm actually agnostic on Minter. I'm not saying that the pick was a mistake--it's clearly too soon to judge Minter. But it's problematic from a management standpoint to burn a year of cost-controlled production from a second-round pick. If he somehow DOES turn into Navorro Bowman, then you're a year closer to having to extend him.

Again, though, if he'd shown that he was a phenom in OTAs, we probably wouldn't have been sniffing around Karlos Dansby to begin with.

What man, does agnostic mean contradicting? Come one man, one way or the other. Minter is a pimp, as far as resume's go, but we have to re-sign Dansby. Keim's rep depends on it. Minter is neither tested or bunked yet.

 

[PDXChris]

What man, does agnostic mean contradicting? Come one man, one way or the other. Minter is a pimp, as far as resume's go, but we have to re-sign Dansby. Keim's rep depends on it. Minter is neither tested or bunked yet.

I am pretty sure that if he were a pimp, he would be in jail.

 

[GatorAZ]

Dansby should be a big priority for us. He strikes me as THE leader of our Defense. According to Keim and Michal Bidwill, we're prepared to accept the $18MM cap hit from Larry to keep his "intangibles" in the locker-room.

I think Dansby easy brings $4-5MM of leadership for what I think is one of the top 3 defenses of the this past year. Seems to me, it shouldn't be too hard to structure a 4 year deal for Los (he is exactly 4 years younger than Abraham) where he sees a 7 figure payout (including up-front bonus money) for 2014 and gets to retire a Cardinal in 2017.

Oh, and I also think Mendenhall will be back in 2014, but it will be at a discounted rate. And I've been on the Ebron at 20 train for awhile, but as always, reserve my right to deny ever wanting him as we get farther after the draft.

Go Cards!!!

Leaving Fitz' cap hit at 18m is fine but don't be surprised when he's playing for another team in 2015...

We're in a pickle with Los, a delicious pickle. We need him back but there's zero chance he duplicates last season. Regardless of regression and age he's worth 4-5M. I know it only takes one team but I don't see anyone offering a big enough deal for him to switch teams/cities...

I don't see reason to spend 2+ mil on Mendenhall either when we're already at the cap. I'd rather see that go to Roberts tbh.

 

[desertdawg]

I am pretty sure that if he were a pimp, he would be in jail.

Man I've been pimpin for years. I think we have a different understanding of the word. You gotta leave the Brittanica alone.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I sure liked Collins coming out of college and am happy to see he is successful. For all of my crappy OG scouting, when it comes to LB, I have been pretty good. I hit Jaime Collins, KJ Wright, Bobby Wagner, and Kiko Alonso the past couple years. Of course, I did miss on Aaron Curry so ugh.

I still don't get the Minter pick though I guess you can't count on signing Dansby and him having a pro bowl type year.

I was all over Collins as well. I never understood how he lasted as long as he did. He had size, speed, pass rush skills, and production on the field.

 

[Duckjake]

Disagree about Shaugnessy. He is a key role player, young and an above average run defender. He and 'Los are the two priorities IMO.

Winston would be nice to keep at the right price. Same with Dray & Ballard.

Shaugnessey is nothing special. We've had guys like him before like Russell Davis for instance. We have 3 guys who can replace him. We have no guys who can replace Dansby's knowledge of the game. He just seems to know more about what the offense is going to do than they do.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Guy has one good game on a team that has snaps available (unlike Minter) and now our ILB is a bust. Talk about Recency Bias.

Collins may turn out good. Doesn't mean Minter isn't a future starter and Good player on this team. Hopefully you scouted him as we'll as you did Washington...

Whatever. A least the guy has one good game. I just hope that you scouted Minter better than you did Kolb, Anderson, Leinart, Max Hall, etc., etc.

Why would you want an outside linebacker who can cover tight ends 20 yards downfield when you could have a two-down inside linebacker?

I'm actually agnostic on Minter. I'm not saying that the pick was a mistake--it's clearly too soon to judge Minter. But it's problematic from a management standpoint to burn a year of cost-controlled production from a second-round pick. If he somehow DOES turn into Navorro Bowman, then you're a year closer to having to extend him.

Again, though, if he'd shown that he was a phenom in OTAs, we probably wouldn't have been sniffing around Karlos Dansby to begin with.

Way too quick to judge the Minter pick. Sure the "cost-controlled" arguement is a valid one, but I know you would also have panned the team if they had gone into this season with only Washington, Brinkley, Minter and whoever else, knowing full well that Washington was going to miss a quarter of the season.

Signing Dansby was a huge win for the team, but now we have to deal with the consequences of Dansby's huge year.

In my opinion, I think we should let Dansby walk. My argument is that while Dansby was an elite player this year, he doesn't have much longevity with team considering his age, and the cost will hurt us from upgrading other areas.

I say let's look at keeping Brinkley for one more year, trying Minter out after a year on the team, and using that 5 million or so it would likely cost to retain Dansby elsewhere.

I know this is will be an unpopular view, but the longer term is more important considering that this team will have to still compete with the Seahawks' and Niners' talent surge going forward.

With Shaughnessy, I saw a tough run defender/chase defender who showed some skills that I'm not fully confident can be replaced by the ugly hydra that is Acho/Okafor/Alexander. The team should look to retain him along with Cason (if the price is right).

 

[Chopper0080]

I was all over Collins as well. I never understood how he lasted as long as he did. He had size, speed, pass rush skills, and production on the field.

Yeah, clearly a freakish athlete who just needed some time and an opportunity.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Shaugnessey is nothing special. We've had guys like him before like Russell Davis for instance. We have 3 guys who can replace him. We have no guys who can replace Dansby's knowledge of the game. He just seems to know more about what the offense is going to do than they do.

What three players would that be ?

I don't see any player on the roster that plays the run, sets the edge, and disrupts the run like Shaugnessey ?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Shaugnessey is nothing special. We've had guys like him before like Russell Davis for instance. We have 3 guys who can replace him. We have no guys who can replace Dansby's knowledge of the game. He just seems to know more about what the offense is going to do than they do.

Shaughnessy shouldn't break the bank either though, so I don't think it should be that hard of a task to retain him.

Maybe Dansby is the next London Fletcher, in the fact that he just seems to get better even into his mid 30's, but that's a rare scenario.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

With Shaughnessy, I saw a tough run defender/chase defender who showed some skills that I'm not fully confident can be replaced by the ugly hydra that is Acho/Okafor/Alexander. The team should look to retain him along with Cason (if the price is right).

Agreed.

Not to mention none of these players (Acho/Okafor/Alexander) can do what Shaugnessey does.

They are not big enough, and don't play with the technique Shaugnessey does.

If Okafor had a full year, and puts on weight.....he would be the best candidate tho.

Shaughnessy shouldn't break the bank either though, so I don't think it should be that hard of a task to retain him.

Agreed.

Signing him to a 3 to 4 year contract should not be a problem.....at least that is my assumption.

 

[kerouac9]

Way too quick to judge the Minter pick. Sure the "cost-controlled" arguement is a valid one, but I know you would also have panned the team if they had gone into this season with only Washington, Brinkley, Minter and whoever else, knowing full well that Washington was going to miss a quarter of the season.

Signing Dansby was a huge win for the team, but now we have to deal with the consequences of Dansby's huge year.

In my opinion, I think we should let Dansby walk. My argument is that while Dansby was an elite player this year, he doesn't have much longevity with team considering his age, and the cost will hurt us from upgrading other areas.

I say let's look at keeping Brinkley for one more year, trying Minter out after a year on the team, and using that 5 million or so it would likely cost to retain Dansby elsewhere.

I know this is will be an unpopular view, but the longer term is more important considering that this team will have to still compete with the Seahawks' and Niners' talent surge going forward.

With Shaughnessy, I saw a tough run defender/chase defender who showed some skills that I'm not fully confident can be replaced by the ugly hydra that is Acho/Okafor/Alexander. The team should look to retain him along with Cason (if the price is right).

I'm glad that you can predict the future, because I don't really remember what I was thinking about the ILB situation in the prior offseason. I'm guessing that I thought that Minter/Brinkley would be all right, because I generally expected the defense to take a step backward with a new system.

I don't know if we should let Dansby walk, but I think it's a bad policy to money-whip him to stay before free agency opens. If someone's going to give him $6M a year, then everything worked out. We got him for less than $3M this year. I don't think you run out and give him a five-year deal or anything, but we also played Paris Lenon in the middle of that defense and they were pretty solid.

I guess it depends on the value that Dansby's leadership contributes to the D. People can claim that Washington is a vocal leader of the defense, but the evidence for that proposition is much less convincing than it is for Dansby. I think you would miss the leadership, particularly if you're tossing Yeremiah Bell out as well. Does that leadership cost you an additional $1.5M and a third year on a contract? Yeech...

 

[Denny Green Fan]

and I would rather keep Dansby because I am more comfortable with the decrease from Shaughnessy to Acho/Alexander than I am with the decrease from Dansby to Minter.

Shaughnessy is a nice player but he is just that, a nice player. I really would like the Cards to find a way to keep him but not at the expense of Dansby or a top free agent like Albert, Monroe, Talib, Grimes, Byrd, Mack, Ward or Pitta.

Just to rosterbate, but could you imagine adding a CB like Talib across from Peterson in our man scheme...that would be a dirty defense especially when Mathieu came back.

I dont think they could pay Peterson and Talib. That would be like trying

to pay Fitz and Boldin. If they wanted another stud corner they would

just draft Justin Gilbert and pay him peanuts. He is probably going to the

Titans however since Whiz is there

 

[Denny Green Fan]

Harry I like Beasley as well. If he declares and makes it all the way to #20 I would love to see the Cardinals draft him. A pass rusher early in the draft should be a high priority if one is available when they pick.

I agree with your free agent assessment as well. Not much money to go around this year. The ghost of Rod Graves' contracts lives on. (already $10M in dead money this year and counting)


What are your thoughts on Fitzgerald and his contract? His cap number the next couple of years is going to be outrageous. Do they move some money around and kick the can down the road a few more years or do you think they try and move him?

Rumors swirling around the internet that Beasley is leaning toward going

back to school.- Per Joe Schad. If this is true that sucks

 

[Denny Green Fan]

I'm actually agnostic on Minter. I'm not saying that the pick was a mistake--it's clearly too soon to judge Minter. But it's problematic from a management standpoint to burn a year of cost-controlled production from a second-round pick. If he somehow DOES turn into Navorro Bowman, then you're a year closer to having to extend him.

Again, though, if he'd shown that he was a phenom in OTAs, we probably wouldn't have been sniffing around Karlos Dansby to begin with.

If we would of picked Jamie Collins last year instead of Minter that would

of allowed us to snag Ryan Shazier ( who is a better version of Alec

Ogletree) at 20. Looking back if we are doing a redo of last years draft

give the Cards Sheldon Richardson at 7 and Larry Warford instead of

Minter. But we could play this game every year.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I'm glad that you can predict the future, because I don't really remember what I was thinking about the ILB situation in the prior offseason. I'm guessing that I thought that Minter/Brinkley would be all right, because I generally expected the defense to take a step backward with a new system.

My point is that even though we lost a year of a cheaper Minter and we don't really know what we have, the proof is in the pudding, that signing Dansby was a great move. Is Collins >>>>> Minter? We don't know.

Collins wasn't particularly productive at all in the big play department considering that he did play meaningful snaps this year for the Patriots.

I know I'm pleased that the new regime isn't looking like a team that will draft a rookie and expect him to step in the lineup and be good from day one. I remember the years of trying to rely (and failing miserably) on the Johnny Rutledge's of the world or relying on Cody Brown, and I don't see any evidence that this team will try that going forward.

I don't know if we should let Dansby walk, but I think it's a bad policy to money-whip him to stay before free agency opens. If someone's going to give him $6M a year, then everything worked out. We got him for less than $3M this year. I don't think you run out and give him a five-year deal or anything, but we also played Paris Lenon in the middle of that defense and they were pretty solid.

But that defense was awful against the run, and while I think our improvements against the run have more to do with the strength of Dan Williams/Ta'amu and our beast D Ends, Dansby is definitely a massive upgrade over Lenon.

I guess it depends on the value that Dansby's leadership contributes to the D. People can claim that Washington is a vocal leader of the defense, but the evidence for that proposition is much less convincing than it is for Dansby. I think you would miss the leadership, particularly if you're tossing Yeremiah Bell out as well. Does that leadership cost you an additional $1.5M and a third year on a contract? Yeech...

Leadership is important (see defections of Warner and Boldin) but you also have to occasionally hope that others will rise to the occasion. I think I would keep Bell if he stays for close to the vet minimum and we start to curtail his playing time a bit and try to better use his strengths. Bell was a beast at times around the line of scrimmage, and while he was at most a slight downgrade from Wilson. From all accounts, he's a pro's pro and would likely be a help to the younger safeties on the roster along with Rashad Johnson.

 

[kerouac9]

My point is that even though we lost a year of a cheaper Minter and we don't really know what we have, the proof is in the pudding, that signing Dansby was a great move. Is Collins >>>>> Minter? We don't know.

Collins wasn't particularly productive at all in the big play department considering that he did play meaningful snaps this year for the Patriots.

I know I'm pleased that the new regime isn't looking like a team that will draft a rookie and expect him to step in the lineup and be good from day one. I remember the years of trying to rely (and failing miserably) on the Johnny Rutledge's of the world or relying on Cody Brown, and I don't see any evidence that this team will try that going forward.

I don't know if Collins really played "meaningful reps" for the Pats:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts

26% of defensive snaps is less than Sam Acho was getting at the beginning of the year. It's a smaller percentage of snaps than Dion Jordan got with the Dolphins.

I think that I tracked the amount of snaps that Brinkley had before Washington came back, but it's still telling that Minter had exactly one defensive snap in the entire season.

That's not easing someone into the lineup; that's keeping somebody off the field.

But that defense was awful against the run, and while I think our improvements against the run have more to do with the strength of Dan Williams/Ta'amu and our beast D Ends, Dansby is definitely a massive upgrade over Lenon.

I think it has more to do with fewer two-down-lineman snaps and bigger OLBs than it does with Paris Lenon, but you're right that Dansby in 2013 was better than Lenon in 2012. The concern with giving Dansby a longer-term deal is that he probably doesn't bring a ton of value on special teams, and you can't keep a backup ILB on the roster who doesn't play teams.

Leadership is important (see defections of Warner and Boldin) but you also have to occasionally hope that others will rise to the occasion. I think I would keep Bell if he stays for close to the vet minimum and we start to curtail his playing time a bit and try to better use his strengths. Bell was a beast at times around the line of scrimmage, and while he was at most a slight downgrade from Wilson. From all accounts, he's a pro's pro and would likely be a help to the younger safeties on the roster along with Rashad Johnson.

I think/hope that SS is a position that we'll be looking to upgrade from Bell. I'm sure he'll be available. Tony Jefferson will eat into his snaps and is (hopefully) a better long-term answer. There's just no replacing a guy like Dansby on the defense--we tried for three seasons and couldn't come up with anyone who could bring it to the table.

 

[Cardiac]

I think that I tracked the amount of snaps that Brinkley had before Washington came back, but it's still telling that Minter had exactly one defensive snap in the entire season.

It might be telling that Minter had only 1 D snap but I don't think so. Minter was signed and given starter money and then Dansby came on the scene and had a All Star Year.

That's not easing someone into the lineup; that's keeping somebody off the field.

No it isn't. That's Los having an All Pro year and DWash being DWash. Not surprising that Brinkley got the reps at the beginning of the season.

I think it has more to do with fewer two-down-lineman snaps and bigger OLBs than it does with Paris Lenon, but you're right that Dansby in 2013 was better than Lenon in 2012. The concern with giving Dansby a longer-term deal is that he probably doesn't bring a ton of value on special teams, and you can't keep a backup ILB on the roster who doesn't play teams.

I highly doubt that Los not playing on ST's is any kind of concern to the coaches. That's what Minter, Acho, Okafor, Alexander (if he's kept) Benard, Moch etc are for.

I think/hope that SS is a position that we'll be looking to upgrade from Bell. I'm sure he'll be available. Tony Jefferson will eat into his snaps and is (hopefully) a better long-term answer. There's just no replacing a guy like Dansby on the defense--we tried for three seasons and couldn't come up with anyone who could bring it to the table.

I agree that Bell can be had for the min and he does bring value. Los is not only a very good player he is a tremendous leader and adds a dimension to the D that no one else on the roster does at this point. Man on man I get why we might not re-sign him but I'm terrified that losing him will cost us a couple or 4 wins next year.

 

[kerouac9]

No it isn't. That's Los having an All Pro year and DWash being DWash. Not surprising that Brinkley got the reps at the beginning of the season.

There were still 50-75 reps across the rest of the season where either Dansby or Washington were taking a breather, and Brinkley took those reps.

I'm not concerned that Minter wasn't able to get in front of Karlos Dansby; I am concerned that Minter wasn't able to get in front of a very ordinary player in Jasper Brinkley.

 

[Cardiac]

There were still 50-75 reps across the rest of the season where either Dansby or Washington were taking a breather, and Brinkley took those reps.

I'm not concerned that Minter wasn't able to get in front of Karlos Dansby; I am concerned that Minter wasn't able to get in front of a very ordinary player in Jasper Brinkley.

Not really a burning issue or red flag for me. Brinkley is the vet who they signed to be the starter, no need to slap him in the face by having the rookie take what few snaps he could get.

Minter will be on this team in 2014, not so sure if Brinkley will because we could use the CAP relief if we re-sign Los.