A Marion trade that works under the cap

[slinslin]

Brent Barry also is like 10 years older than Hughes and wants a 4 year contract.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by slinslin
Brent Barry also is like 10 years older than Hughes and wants a 4 year contract.

Yes, but Barry is a much better player. Last year was the only year Huges put up decent shooting percentages and he was certainly underwhelming at GS. Brent Barry has a career shooting average of 46.2% and 44% for three plus he averages 5.5 assists this season (and above 5 the previous 2 seasons).

Huges career shooting is 41.2% and only 26.8% for three.

I only gave Barry as a possibility. I'm sure there are others. My point is that I'm not convinced I'd sign Huges as a free agent (if I were Utah) for $5.5 million let alone give a draft pick for him.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Shawn Marion is easy to replace?

Name the only other player to lead his team in Points, Rebounding, Steals, and Blocks?

Here is a hint, he plays way up north.

Now I am not saying that Marion is on Garnett's level, but you simply don't give enough credit to his all around game.

 

[slinslin]

Shawn Marion wouldn't lead his team in ppg if the season started when we traded Marbury.

He wouldn't lead his team in rebounds and blocks if Amare was healthy and playing big minutes.

This statistic is misleading.

 

[Mike Olbinski]

Originally posted by Chaplin
BYC

BYC

BYC

BYC

Maybe you need someone to explain the concept to you.

"Very mature. And another great contribution to a thread!"

Mike

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Originally posted by slinslin
Shawn Marion wouldn't lead his team in ppg if the season started when we traded Marbury.

He wouldn't lead his team in rebounds and blocks if Amare was healthy and playing big minutes.

This statistic is misleading.

No it is factual.

Big minutes? Were you aware that Marion is #1 in the league in minutes played.

And the majority of those minutes are spent playing out of position.

He does what he is told by the coach no questions asked.

Again I think you grossly underestimate his overall contribution to the team. But we have gone this circle many times.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Shawn Marion's Grow On Trees

Ranks #12 in the NBA in Rebounds Per Game(9.4) Ranks #11 in the NBA in Free-Throw Percentage(0.879)
Ranks #3 in the NBA in Steals Per Game(2.12) Ranks #2 in the NBA in Minutes Per Game(41.0)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Minutes Played(2007.0) Ranks #10 in the NBA in Field Goals Made(367.0)
Ranks #8 in the NBA in Field Goal Attempts(867.0) Ranks #11 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds(332.0)
Ranks #14 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds Per Game(6.8) Ranks #11 in the NBA in Total Rebounds(461.0)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Steals(104.0) Ranks #17 in the NBA in Points(926.0)
Ranks #9 in the NBA in Steals Per Turnover(1.08) Ranks #11 in the NBA in Double-doubles(22.0)
Ranks #18 in the NBA in Steals Per 48 Minutes(2.49) Ranks #6 in the NBA in Total Efficiency Points(1075.0)
Ranks #11 in the NBA in Efficiency Ranking(21.94)


Man this would be easy to replace. What was I thinking?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Also let me qualify the above statement with the following:

Yes he has regressed this year. So you can take this year as the aberration or his prior 4 years as the abberation your choice.

Yes he makes too much money. I don't think it is by more than a couple million though.

But easy to replace? At least keep your constant criticism in the realms of reality.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Originally posted by Chris_Sanders
Also let me qualify the above statement with the following:

Yes he has regressed this year. So you can take this year as the aberration or his prior 4 years as the abberation your choice.

Yes he makes too much money. I don't think it is by more than a couple million though.

But easy to replace? At least keep your constant criticism in the realms of reality.

Thank you

 

[slinslin]

Re: Shawn Marion's Grow On Trees

Originally posted by Chris_Sanders
Ranks #12 in the NBA in Rebounds Per Game(9.4) Ranks #11 in the NBA in Free-Throw Percentage(0.879)
Ranks #3 in the NBA in Steals Per Game(2.12) Ranks #2 in the NBA in Minutes Per Game(41.0)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Minutes Played(2007.0) Ranks #10 in the NBA in Field Goals Made(367.0)
Ranks #8 in the NBA in Field Goal Attempts(867.0) Ranks #11 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds(332.0)
Ranks #14 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds Per Game(6.8) Ranks #11 in the NBA in Total Rebounds(461.0)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Steals(104.0) Ranks #17 in the NBA in Points(926.0)
Ranks #9 in the NBA in Steals Per Turnover(1.08) Ranks #11 in the NBA in Double-doubles(22.0)
Ranks #18 in the NBA in Steals Per 48 Minutes(2.49) Ranks #6 in the NBA in Total Efficiency Points(1075.0)
Ranks #11 in the NBA in Efficiency Ranking(21.94)


Man this would be easy to replace. What was I thinking?

Ranks #4 in the NBA in Steals Per Game(2.11) Ranks #3 in the NBA in Blocks Per Game(2.82)
Ranks #18 in the NBA in Free Throws(200.0) Ranks #19 in the NBA in Free Throw Attempts(253.0)
Ranks #5 in the NBA in Steals(95.0) Ranks #4 in the NBA in Blocks(127.0)
Ranks #8 in the NBA in Steals Per 48 Minutes(2.73) Ranks #10 in the NBA in Blocks Per 48 Minutes(3.65)
Ranks #16 in the NBA in Total Efficiency Points(994.0) Ranks #10 in the NBA in Efficiency Ranking(22.09)
Ranks #14 in the NBA in Efficiency Ranking Per 48 Minutes(28.6) Ranks #17 in the NBA in Turnovers Per Game(2.78)


Also if you took Marion off the team Amare's rebounds would be going up.
A lot of those numers you listed are also totals like minutes played etc.

Easy to replace? Yes because SFs are dime a dozen and the least important position to fill in my opinion anyway.

Hakim Warrick has the body, athleticism, style and skills to get similiar averages. What I like about him is that he will get in there , go to the hoop, mix it up and throw it down with authority something Shawn Marion rarely ever does.
Shawn is avoiding contact even worse than Vince Carter.

 

[Chaplin]

Re: Re: Shawn Marion's Grow On Trees

Originally posted by slinslin


Easy to replace? Yes because SFs are dime a dozen and the least important position to fill in my opinion anyway.

Name another SF that can provide what Shawn provides not named Garnett.

 

[slinslin]

Kirilenko and Anthony is on his way.

Antoine Walker, Dirk Nowitzki.

Paul Pierce, Tracy McGrady, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James.

Jamal Mashburn, Peja Stojakovic.



And to a lesser degree Rashard Lewis.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by slinslin
Kirilenko

He doesn't rebound as well, and he is the focal point on a team with no other players approaching what Amare and JJ bring.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by slinslin
Kirilenko and Anthony is on his way.

Antoine Walker, Dirk Nowitzki.

Paul Pierce, Tracy McGrady, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James,

Kobe, Tracy are both SGs. Antoine Walker. Are you kidding??

Nowitzki I'll give you, but Marion is a much, much better defender.

Lebron is good, but he's more of a SG as well. Carmelo? He may be "on his way", but that isn't the question I asked. I asked you to name some, not one that MAY be better in the long run.

 

[slinslin]

Nobody is the focal point on the Jazz.

Kirilenko is a better defender than Marion also and a better shooter and plays less minutes.

If Sloan would play Kirilenko more there would be like no difference except that AK47 does more things that don't show up in the boxscores.

And Marion has never played well in the playoffs either.

 

[slinslin]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Kobe, Tracy are both SGs. Antoine Walker. Are you kidding??

No I am not kidding. Antoine Walker is a much more talented offensive player than Marion, a good rebounder at the SF spot and an average defender.
Marion isn't exactly a lock-down defender either.

Kevin Garnett is also a PF really but TMac, Kobe those guys would be a better SF than Marion.


You you rather have Joe Johnson and Kobe or Joe Johnson and Marion?

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by slinslin
No I am not kidding. Antoine Walker is a much more talented offensive player than Marion, a good rebounder at the SF spot and an average defender.
Marion isn't exactly a lock-down defender either.

Walker is a below-average defender. Although I am concerned that Shawn is approaching Walker's penchant for hanging around the 3-point line jacking up shots.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by slinslin

You you rather have Joe Johnson and Kobe or Joe Johnson and Marion?

Huh? Of course I would rather have Joe Johnson and Kobe. But that doesn't mean I undervalue what Shawn brings, like you are doing the past few weeks.

 

[George O'Brien]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by slinslin
Kirilenko
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kirilenko is having a very good year and is cheap because he is still on a rookie contract.

The real question is not whether there are SF's that the Suns might like to have that cost less. The quesiton is whether there is anyone AVAILABLE that that is better at a lower price. I'd love to have Stojakovic, but he is totally untouchable.

A case could be made for drafting an SF that might make Marion expendible a year or two down the road. But if we are talking about FA or trades, it looks doubtful.

 

[scotsman13]

slin i am sorry i dont see any value in kwame and that you would even think of trading marion is totally shocking. you would give up the marion, you would give up one of the best free throw shooters, one best players at getting steals, one of the better defenders, the single best rebounding small forwards, for a player who is proven that he cant take any presure? kwame brown does nothing and never will.

ppg 18.9 vs. 10
rebounds9.4 vs. 7
assists 2.5 vs. 1.5
steals 2.12 vs 1.04
blocks 1.54 vs. .72
fg%.423 vs .475
ft% .879 vs. .742
3pt% .316 vs .500 this doesnt count as kwame has only taken 2 3's

all in all you are talking about trading away one of the best all round players in the nba for a player who cant even keep up with amare when he is healthy who is 2 years younger.

 

[slinslin]

Amare isn't even a year younger than Kwame, sorry scotsman.

And it is stupid to measure someone compared to Amare because that would make Marion look very bad in the future also.

Even if Kwame wouldn't improve anymore which he definately will keep doing he is one of the better defenders at 7'.

Your comparison of numbers is nice but doesn't show that Marion is playing 15 more minutes per game.

Other wise Kwame would be better in FG%, rebounds and about the same in blocks and assists and not far behind in steals.

And Kwame has played a lot better for over a month now.

 

[slinslin]

This would be my pick to replace Marion.

20ppg 9rpg 2.4apg 1spg ~1bpg 53%FG

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[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by slinslin

And Kwame has played a lot better for over a month now.

Which is why the Wizzards aren't going to trade him. They have waited for him to develop and aren't going to bail now that it looks like their patience may finally pay off.

At the same time, the Suns are likely to be reluctant to trade a former all star and former Team USA member for a guy who has had one good month.

Even if the numbers made sense, the psychology doesn't.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by slinslin
This would be my pick to replace Marion.

Is this Warrick?

 

[slinslin]

Yeah Hakim Warrick, he already looks good in Orange and that headband is nice .