A more positive view

[outoftheashes]

Now I may be coming out of left field with this one, but I'm pretty sure the poster you referenced is upset with people making personal attacks and rubbing people the wrong way with condescending remarks. I really don't think he would mind someone disagreeing with him if they made a counterpoint and provided evidence or opinion for such.

What's sad is if ASFN becomes a place where open discussion is discouraged in place of 'all is well' fluff writing. There's plenty right with this team, but unfortunatley there's also plenty wrong and burying your head in the sand whenever something isn't acceptable is flat out ignorant.

Agreed, I think differing opinions are important to any web board and respectful debate should be encouraged. Negative and positive opinions are just that, opinions. One is no better than the other. What I was referring to was the practice of belittling people for their opinions and personal attacks. I dont think it does anything to strengthen an argument and discourages others from expressing themselves.

 

[40yearfan]

I simply posted my opinion as my priviledge under the rules of this board. I attacked no one. You obviously miss the point. I see every negative that everyone else sees. I just don't feel the need to get bent out of shape like some do. Of course they have their opinion just like I have mine. I posted mine and you responded.

I honestly read this site more for informational purposes than anything at this point. It's really gotten kind of old having to "defend" your point of view to a select few who make it their whole goal in life to constantly chest beat about how this team is not playoff worthy, or how pathetic the ownership is or coaching or whatever. I cheer for this team and I want every person involved to succeed. Excuse me for having a little hope and giving our boys the benefit of the doubt. Sue me.

I generally enjoy some posters as they are usually pretty fair regardless if they point to a positive or a negative. Some just love to stir the pot and it is unfortunate. I just felt the need to post my opinion.. and of course just as you say - you are free to ignore it. But one thing is for sure. I'm not the only one that feels this way.

 

[Cheesebeef]

good lord guys - if everyone was rah, rah here this board would be exactly like the freaking board at the official site - in other words A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME.

Does anyone really want this board to become like that place?

As far as the "darksiders" driving people off the board, can someone show me all the posts the darksiders make that are akin to "There are a lot of posters on here who are very negative... but if they want to be miserable that's their problem" or "Because he isn't, he lives for this. Today is a day in paradise for him, when the Cards look bad, that's where Ouchie shines" or "Feel free to bang your head against a wall, slit your wrists, kick the dog, or whatever eternal pessimists like to do for fun", "It's really gotten kind of old having to "defend" your point of view to a select few who make it their whole goal in life..." or actually tell others to shut up or "Please do us all a favor and save it" and "For the people who continue to try to lessen the fact that Denny Green is a proven winner in this league please spare us your childish antics", basically telling people they should shut their mouths - now all of that seems to be a problem on the board if you ask me, but hey, that's just one man's opinion.

I still love reading the posts on this board. Please don't try and stop others from giving their opinions. Don't let this board become as pathetic as the official site.

And with that public service announcement...

 

[40yearfan]

I have been lurking on this board for a while now and just recently this offseason decided to start posting every once in a while. Its unfortunate that about 75% of the time when I post something positive about a player/the team...someone on the board rips it apart and tries to make me feel stupid for my opinion. It may just be a perception thing on my part. Its hard enough to throw out an opinion when you are not known to be or considered a "valued" member of this board. I guess the point im getting too is that I feel a big reason a lot of lurkers on this board are not posters is due to the perception that theres a good chance the elitists will slam you and then follow up with some personal jabs. A little respect goes along way. Take it for what you will....

That being said... I am dissapointed in last weeks performance and was really angry with the clock management...but I have certainly seen worse from this team and I think this will serve as a wake up call. I think we will see solid execution at the nest this week and walk away with the W and a 2-1 record...wich will hopefully be enough to build some confidence going into a hard road game.

You just need to get a thick skin and tell them you could care less what their opinion is. It's amazing how many people on here know more than the entire Cardinal coaching staff. Like yourself, CT, and Clif, I also prefer to look at the bright side of things rather than the negative. It's hard for me to understand how you can be a fan of a team that never does anything right or why you would want to be.

Try telling a Raider fan how bad his team is this year and you'll wind up with a knife in your ribs. Now that's loyalty.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Here's what I really don't understand and maybe Clif and Card Trader can help me with this since I see the comment from them more than anyone. I don't understand how you can equate how some people's (me included) view on the Cardinals, a franchise which has been admittedly horrendous for decades, has any bearing on the rest of our life - you know telling those people who critcize the team that must have pathetic, miserable lives oir should slam their heads into a wall or slit their wrists? I've seen this multiple times and every time wonder - just how seriously do they a) think I actually take football and b) how seriously do THEY take football in order to believe that one's stance on a perennial doormat actually effects life outside of 3 hours on Sunday?

Is it just because there's nothing else that you know about us? And if that's the case, don't you think that's it's still a HUGE assumption to make calling other people's lives pathetic because they criticize a team which hasn't had a winning season in almost a decade?

 

[Cheesebeef]

You just need to get a thick skin and tell them you could care less what their opinion is. It's amazing how many people on here know more than the entire Cardinal coaching staff. Like yourself, CT, and Clif, I also prefer to look at the bright side of things rather than the negative. It's hard for me to understand how you can be a fan of a team that never does anything right or why you would want to be.

it's a nasty combo of loyalty and being a glutton for punishment.

 

[jefftheshark]

good lord guys - if everyone was rah, rah here this board would be exactly like the freaking board at the official site - in other words A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME.

Does anyone really want this board to become like that place?

As far as the "darksiders" driving people off the board, can someone show me all the posts the darksiders make that are akin to "There are a lot of posters on here who are very negative... but if they want to be miserable that's their problem" or "Feel free to bang your head against a wall, slit your wrists, kick the dog, or whatever eternal pessimists like to do for fun", "It's really gotten kind of old having to "defend" your point of view to a select few who make it their whole goal in life..." or actually tell others to shut up or "Please do us all a favor and save it" and "For the people who continue to try to lessen the fact that Denny Green is a proven winner in this league please spare us your childish antics", basically telling people they should shut their mouths - now all of that seems to be a problem on the board if you ask me, but hey, that's just one man's opinion.

I still love reading the posts on this board. Please don't try and stop others from giving their opinions. Don't let this board become as pathetic as the official site.

And with that public service announcement...

The More You Know.............

-Adam Carolla + The Shark

 

[DieHardFromMO]

I simply posted my opinion as my priviledge under the rules of this board. I attacked no one. You obviously miss the point. I see every negative that everyone else sees. I just don't feel the need to get bent out of shape like some do. Of course they have their opinion just like I have mine. I posted mine and you responded.

I honestly read this site more for informational purposes than anything at this point. It's really gotten kind of old having to "defend" your point of view to a select few who make it their whole goal in life to constantly chest beat about how this team is not playoff worthy, or how pathetic the ownership is or coaching or whatever. I cheer for this team and I want every person involved to succeed. Excuse me for having a little hope and giving our boys the benefit of the doubt. Sue me.

I generally enjoy some posters as they are usually pretty fair regardless if they point to a positive or a negative. Some just love to stir the pot and it is unfortunate. I just felt the need to post my opinion.. and of course just as you say - you are free to ignore it. But one thing is for sure. I'm not the only one that feels this way.

Nobody is trying to deny you your opinion clif. You are more than welcome to spread sunshine it doesn't bother me. However, those that choose to spread negativity don't bother me either. I like to read differing opinions.

It was you however in your original post that was attempting to deny others from posting sentiment that you don't want to read. It would be a sad message board to come to if all you could post was positive things. I guess you and a few others would like it, but I would say you are the exception and not the rule.

 

[conraddobler]

You just need to get a thick skin and tell them you could care less what their opinion is. It's amazing how many people on here know more than the entire Cardinal coaching staff. Like yourself, CT, and Clif, I also prefer to look at the bright side of things rather than the negative. It's hard for me to understand how you can be a fan of a team that never does anything right or why you would want to be.

Try telling a Raider fan how bad his team is this year and you'll wind up with a knife in your ribs. Now that's loyalty.

LMAO, hard to understand?

40 in your entire fandom of this team they've won at grand total of one playoff game....

I'm not bustin ya up or anything, I'm a fan too, I don't like total negativity, we can all see how much things have gotten better especially those who've watched this team as long as we have.

However, as far as we've come there's a few more hurdles left, those hurdles would be:

1. Seeing management stretch out for the ball sort of speaking and spending the last drop of money.

2. Seeing impressive coaching.

These are not a lot to ask for especially every 20 years or so as we cycle through the years we are supposed to cycle up and down widely from sucky to spectacular, the Cardinals though are caught in a narrow band of horrid and craptastic.

IMO thet first step in builidng a winner in the NFL is building a management team that's smarter than almost everyone else in the business and who builds a management team top down better than the rest of them.

Michael is new to doing this, he's very smart though, an excellent candidate for an owner or if I could put it this way, he's the best possible scenario we'll ever get while his dad owns the team.

He didn't make a dumb decision hiring Green, it was a calculated business move that's kind of hard to argue with actually, we needed some form of stability and credibility to get off the ground and Green provides that, however he's got a rep for leaving undisciplined messes in his wake, he's on his way to that here, that's why I don't like the guy, he'll win some games and then we'll get tired of the mediocre success and we'll be looking again.

I wanted the home run shot, I wanted a guy that had a chance to take it the distance.

Still waiting for that guy.

 

[40yearfan]

LMAO, hard to understand?

40 in your entire fandom of this team they've won at grand total of one playoff game....

.

I've also seen the Cards win over 30 games in a 3 year period. I've seen Larry Wilson, Conrad Dobler, Jackie Smith, Roy Green, Jim Hart, etc., etc., and etc.

The one thing I haven't seen is a Cardinal team with as much talent as this one has. It's a young team and it has growing pains, but they are definetly heading in the right direction.

We need to give Green our complete backing for this year and if he still doesn't have a winning record, it will be time to make a change. Imagine what a Bill Cowher or Bill Belichick could do with this talent.

 

[clif]

Nobody is trying to deny you your opinion clif. You are more than welcome to spread sunshine it doesn't bother me. However, those that choose to spread negativity don't bother me either. I like to read differing opinions.

It was you however in your original post that was attempting to deny others from posting sentiment that you don't want to read. It would be a sad message board to come to if all you could post was positive things. I guess you and a few others would like it, but I would say you are the exception and not the rule.

Please enlighten me as to how my opinion was attempting to deny others from posting? please tell me how this is possible?

Again I have absolutely no problem with posters who come and actually talk about the team in a respectful manner.. whether I agree with them or not... whether positive or negative.

I just chose to speak on a concern that I had with people who continually rehash garbage to get people fired up. Namely "FIRE DENNIS GREEN"... come on... after two games into 2006? I think the topic is frankly quite silly. People have their opinion and I have mine. They voiced their concerns there and I voiced mine here. What is so wrong about that? I didn't attack anyone I simply stated that IMO it seems kind of dumb to call for the coaches head 2 games into the season. Could he and the rest of the staff done a better job? Hell yes, namely not making a switch on the Oline the week before their best opponent, but I am more than willing to wait until the end of the season before thinking about a coaching change. I get the impression that some won't be happy unless DG fails and we get their guy in as coach.

 

[clif]

LMAO, hard to understand?

40 in your entire fandom of this team they've won at grand total of one playoff game....

I'm not bustin ya up or anything, I'm a fan too, I don't like total negativity, we can all see how much things have gotten better especially those who've watched this team as long as we have.

However, as far as we've come there's a few more hurdles left, those hurdles would be:

1. Seeing management stretch out for the ball sort of speaking and spending the last drop of money.

2. Seeing impressive coaching.


He didn't make a dumb decision hiring Green, it was a calculated business move that's kind of hard to argue with actually, we needed some form of stability and credibility to get off the ground and Green provides that, however he's got a rep for leaving undisciplined messes in his wake, he's on his way to that here, that's why I don't like the guy, he'll win some games and then we'll get tired of the mediocre success and we'll be looking again.

I wanted the home run shot, I wanted a guy that had a chance to take it the distance.

Still waiting for that guy.

If you mean the undisciplined mess that was the 15-1 Minnesota Vikings... I'll take that over mediocre choir boys all day long. The funny thing is people want to blame Denny for the crap in Minnesota (rightfully or wrongly) but yet their team got worse in that regards after he left! (ie the boat scandal)

Oh and BTW.. I have yet to see anyone post anything of substance as to who the Cards had a realistic shot in signing in FA besides the players that they got.

 

[DieHardFromMO]

Please enlighten me as to how my opinion was attempting to deny others from posting? please tell me how this is possible?

Again I have absolutely no problem with posters who come and actually talk about the team in a respectful manner.. whether I agree with them or not... whether positive or negative.

I just chose to speak on a concern that I had with people who continually rehash garbage to get people fired up. Namely "FIRE DENNIS GREEN"... come on... after two games into 2006? I think the topic is frankly quite silly. People have their opinion and I have mine. They voiced their concerns there and I voiced mine here. What is so wrong about that? I didn't attack anyone I simply stated that IMO it seems kind of dumb to call for the coaches head 2 games into the season. Could he and the rest of the staff done a better job? Hell yes, namely not making a switch on the Oline the week before their best opponent, but I am more than willing to wait until the end of the season before thinking about a coaching change. I get the impression that some won't be happy unless DG fails and we get their guy in as coach.

The following is from your original post clif. It seems plain as day you are trying to tell people what not to post anymore since you don't want to read it:

They seem to infest every thread with their "i told you so's" as if it is some badge of honor. Please do us all a favor and save it.

No one wants to continually hear the bashing of their favorite team. Are there problems sure there are but I seriously doubt the boys in Tempe are ignoring them. For the people who continue to try to lessen the fact that Denny Green is a proven winner in this league please spare us your childish antics and quit spewing your blatant hate. Every person with any knowledge of football has continually said that Denny will get this team and organization better.. so give it up.

I hope you are enlightened. It is pretty clear you are trying to tell people what not to post anymore.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

What's sad is if ASFN becomes a place where open discussion is discouraged in place of 'all is well' fluff writing. There's plenty right with this team, but unfortunatley there's also plenty wrong and burying your head in the sand whenever something isn't acceptable is flat out ignorant.

Correct.

 

[Scot1]

I read this board regularly because of the ideas and info I find here--the football analysis, latest news, exposure of errors in published accounts.... My guess is that optimists and pessimists are roughly equal in frequency of good ideas/info. I tend to be a pessimist, but I still get an injection of hope from the optimists, so I hope they both write freely.

Some of the insult exchanges are funny or informative, but I wish people would follow a rule such as "Only one insulting sentence per poster per thread." That would decrease boredom.

 

[Duckjake]

It's hard for me to understand how you can be a fan of a team that never does anything right or why you would want to be.

40, think about that statement for a minute.

 

[lobo]

Thanks for the responses, the feedback is appreciated. Lobo, you make a good point and I hadnt thought of it that way..Thank You.

you are welcome...keep the posts coming....i wonder sometimes if some of these guys play golf....they should write comments on a private forum how they play and why they threw their clubs or bent them or whatever...i have played golf for 40+ years and i am not a good player, but i never took it seriously enough to drive myself around the bend...

it is not easy to be cardinal fan and however that quote was from that movie i didn't see (sic) "we can't quit them"

 

[Chopper0080]

is this conversation still going on??? There are a lot of feelings being hurt/shared around here lately for a message board mostly full of dudes.

 

[clif]

The following is from your original post clif. It seems plain as day you are trying to tell people what not to post anymore since you don't want to read it:

They seem to infest every thread with their "i told you so's" as if it is some badge of honor. Please do us all a favor and save it.

No one wants to continually hear the bashing of their favorite team. Are there problems sure there are but I seriously doubt the boys in Tempe are ignoring them. For the people who continue to try to lessen the fact that Denny Green is a proven winner in this league please spare us your childish antics and quit spewing your blatant hate. Every person with any knowledge of football has continually said that Denny will get this team and organization better.. so give it up.

I hope you are enlightened. It is pretty clear you are trying to tell people what not to post anymore.

And how is that affecting anyone's posting? That is my opinion as was stated. Again feel free to ignore it.

 

[Duckjake]

is this conversation still going on??? There are a lot of feelings being hurt/shared around here lately for a message board mostly full of dudes.

This conversation was going on this same time last year. Just go back and read the threads from Sept. 2005 after we'd been hammered by the Giants, blew it against the Rams and then got throttled by Seattle. Same people saying the exact same things.