A simple question...

[BritCard]

Holy crap you can keep sayign the same thing and I agree with you but take a step back and ask what do you expect the Cards to do, bench Kyler for 36 year old McCoy? That's not going to happen, they're going to try and get better play from Kyler and it's apparent that's not happening with Kliff in charge IMO.

I get that Kliff has to deal with Kylers' poor play but it goes both ways, you can't just have Kliff say "play better". Everytime we get on a roll Kliff calls some stupid college play that loses 5 yards and has that look on his face like man that always worked against Sam Houston State.

Do you think Kliff is doing anything different than all the years Kyler improved? There are things to blame Kliff for but the way Kyler is playing isn't one of them. That's all on Kyler.

Now yes, there are a few plays that are dumb but they aren't the problem. Were talking 3-4 plays out of 60 and fans always jump on them.

The vast majority of passing plays are straight forward drop backs that rely on Kyler to do his job, and he simply isn't.

Oh and yes, I would bench him for McCoy. I believe any player playing that poorly needs a timeout. Kyler needs a shock to him system to knock some of the arrogance out.

 

[Chopper0080]

Well Hard Knocks is going to be fun

So excited for this tbh.

 

[Russ Smith]

Do you think Kliff is doing anything different than all the years Kyler improved? There are things to blame Kliff for but the way Kyler is playing isn't one of them. That's all on Kyler.

Now yes, there are a few plays that are dumb but they aren't the problem. Were talking 3-4 plays out of 60 and fans always jump on them.

The vast majority of passing plays are straight forward drop backs that rely on Kyler to do his job, and he simply isn't.

the LEAGUE has adjusted they're defending our offense differently and Kliff hasn't adjusted.

Kyler has to play better we can all see that but everything has to get better. They're not going to bench Murray right now I think that should be obvious, so the clear goal is how do you get him to play better. Continuing to do the same thing with Kliff is very unlikely going to work.

The reason fans jump on the bad plays is they end drives just like penalties do.

 

[BritCard]

So excited for this tbh.

Same. I want to see behind the curtain. Especially how Kliff handles adversity. I hope they don't sanitize the crap out of of it.

 

[Chopper0080]

It's a poor carpenter who blames his tools.

A fundamental difference between us is that I see Kyler as the carpenter. Kliff is the tool.

 

[Russ Smith]

A fundamental difference between us is that I see Kyler as the carpenter. Kliff is the tool.

Kliff is the construction worker whistling at the pretty girls that walk by

 

[BritCard]

the LEAGUE has adjusted they're defending our offense differently and Kliff hasn't adjusted.

Kyler has to play better we can all see that but everything has to get better. They're not going to bench Murray right now I think that should be obvious, so the clear goal is how do you get him to play better. Continuing to do the same thing with Kliff is very unlikely going to work.

The reason fans jump on the bad plays is they end drives just like penalties do.

I'm sorry I just don't believe this. This is a fan created narrative.

This is the 4th year of this offense. Defenses haven't changed anything. I'm watching games and defenses are playing the exact same way they did last year.

Under thrown balls, over thrown balls, balls that land out of bounds or 3 yards away from the target are nothing to do with scheme. Kyler is bottom of the league in passes over 10 yards. No coach can overcome that.

 

[Chopper0080]

The game should be getting slower and much less complicated to him by now. He should understand complex defenses and coverages by now. But that might require actually studying.

Part of the evolution of a young QB is being able to understand NFL defenses and self diagnose. Why Kyler is feeling the struggle is because he doesn't self diagnose. He hasn't spent the offseason studying how defenses are attacking him and what he can adjust in his own game to counter this. This is because of his ego and lack of self awareness.

Every week teams bait Kyler to throw deep in early downs or 3rd / 4th and short. They bait him into low probability routes because they know he will take the shot. They rush him the same every week and he runs into sacks every week. Before teams had to worry about Kyler running and now they fear it less because they know he is contact adverse.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm sorry I just don't believe this. This is a fan created narrative.

This is the 4th year of this offense. Defenses haven't changed anything. I'm watching games and defenses are playing the exact same way they did last year.

Under thrown balls, over thrown balls, balls that land out of bounds or 3 yards away from the target are nothing to do with scheme. Kyler is bottom of the league in passes over 10 yards. No coach can overcome that.

I haven't see the current week 6 numbers but through 5 weeks scoring was down league wide and the teams with the best offenses were all well balanced because the entire league is playing 2 deep safeties, taking away big plays.

That's what the announcers mean when they say Kliff is cautioning Kyler not to get too aggressive and force the ball, he wants him to take the shorter stuff. Kyler has to do that better but the plays themselves have to be better because damn near every drive we have has a 5-6 yard loss play that's totally on Kliff, or a penalty, or both that we have to overcome.

Kyler has to do better but so does Kliff.

and if Ammendola is kicking on Thur I give up

 

[BritCard]

A fundamental difference between us is that I see Kyler as the carpenter. Kliff is the tool.

This. Everything that happens on the field is 80% quarterback and 20% coaches.

The coaches create the plan and get the players as prepared as possible but once they hit the field the coaches are assisting them.

That's why Kliff gets paid $5.5m a year and Kyler gets $45m a year. Because when it gets to the business end of football it's the QB that is king.

 

[Zalixar]

The game should be getting slower and much less complicated to him by now. He should understand complex defenses and coverages by now. But that might require actually studying.

The progress has definitely halted and there's a lot of shared blame and hopefully a clean sweep at the end of the season.

However, QB play is down across the league this year. That has to be playing a factor too.

 

[slanidrac16]

I think they are both trying to do the best they can.
HOWEVER! It has become crystal clear Kingsbury is a college coach running a college offense with a Qb that plays like he is still in college.
It doesn’t work. The league has caught up with this offense and not just today. The blueprint is now league wide. Kliff doesn’t know how to adjust and Kyler hasn’t been coached up to run a PROFESSIONAL offense.
Defenses are too fast and too sophisticated to simply run around and play like it’s a playground flag football game.
Four years, FOUR YEARS and we still can’t play from under center. Our screen pass works about 10% of the time and we NEVER have developed a planned roll out. All things that could slow down a pass rush or take advantage of a blitz.

 

[kerouac9]

All the Kliff and Keim talk is a distraction for me. It's a separate issue. Keim should have gone some time ago. I'm more ambivalent on Kliff because frankly I don't see who replaces him that is better.

But I won't accept Kyler doesn't have the tools to be much better. Before Kyler broke him Hollywood was on track for 1400 yards. Ertz was on track for 800. Since Rondale has been back he's had 50 yards a game. Green is a ghost but then Kyler ignores him like he's been boning his mom.

Kyler had a higher passer rating, YPA and QBR as a rookie throwing to Fitz's corpse, Kirk, Pharoah Cooper and Dan Arnold. His starting O line contained Sweezy, Shipley and Justin Murray.

There's no offensive talent issue. A QB playing poorly makes everyone look bad.

What pisses me off the most is in his presser it's all WE. Not once did he call himself out. He finished the game with a pass that got his best friends ankle crushed and he still couldn't say "It's on me. I have to play better".

Right now or after the end of the season? I agree with you on the former, strongly disagree with you on the latter.

 

[QuebecCard]

This. Everything that happens on the field is 80% quarterback and 20% coaches.

The coaches create the plan and get the players as prepared as possible but once they hit the field the coaches are assisting them.

That's why Kliff gets paid $5.5m a year and Kyler gets $45m a year. Because when it gets to the business end of football it's the QB that is king.

Well, this King (KM) receives instruction from play-to-play from the Prime Minister (KK) based on his plan.

Bad plan... bad results.

Hey, I'm no expert, but somehow without err, I can call every run wide, which usually comes after a few successful runs inside.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm watching some PHNX post game on youtube that has Frank Sanders and another ex Card(can't tell who) on it. they both said the same thing week after week the offense is at a coaching disadvantage. You watch other games you see coaches scheme easy plays to get guys open and Kliff doesn't do that. one guy said Pete Carroll just embarassed Kliff today and the look on Franks' face it was clear he agreed.

Sanders pointed out that Seattle was playing a "wide defense" with a bunch of stunts up front and Kliff never figured it out. he kept trying to play laterally and when they didn't, they were trying to go downfield but couldn't protect it. Frank said the intermediate is there but it doesn't seem like the coach and the QB have figured out how they're being attacked.

They all agreed Kliff won't be fired now but not because he deserves the job, because of money and because there's no other offensive mind in the building to replace him, and they will struggle to hire outside, they're going to stick with Kliff.

They all made the same point, Vance is getting more out of the defense the sum is better than the parts. Kliff is getting way less.

 

[Chopper0080]

Well, this King (KM) receives instruction from play-to-play from the Prime Minister (KK) based on his plan.

Bad plan... bad results.

Hey, I'm no expert, but somehow without err, I can call every run wide, which usually comes after a few successful runs inside.

What has Kingsbury ever done that makes you believe he dictates to Kyler at all? That is uniformly the biggest shared complaint on this board about him.

There is a collaborative effort between the HC/OC/QB in regards to every week's gameplan and the scripted plays. Those are implemented with the help and at the preference of the QB. Now if Kyler doesn't provide input, that is on him. He is the one on the field and is practicing this game plan and script during the week.

 

[QuebecCard]

What has Kingsbury ever done that makes you believe he dictates to Kyler at all? That is uniformly the biggest shared complaint on this board about him.

There is a collaborative effort between the HC/OC/QB in regards to every week's gameplan and the scripted plays. Those are implemented with the help and at the preference of the QB. Now if Kyler doesn't provide input, that is on him. He is the one on the field and is practicing this game plan and script during the week.

The part where he looks down at his play card and barks something to KM or is that just for show?

 

[HomerPimpson]

There seems to be a lot of blame floating around but for me it boils down to one simple question.

Do you think Kyler is adequately prepared for games? And if not, what does anything else matter?

If your QB is not adequately prepared it doesn't matter what Kliff does, or how the running game or the O line performs. If your QB, who owns the offense on the field, is not adequately prepared for games then we have next to no chance of winning.

I feel like I've been one of his hugest supporters, but I have to admit I've gone sour on the dude--specifically after his "study" comments to the NY Times earlier this year. This was before a single game had been played, I hated the comment then and hate it more now. He doubled down on the immaturity with his juvenile games on Instagram and decided to just faceplant himself with his "better be ready when you play with me" clown show. He's even gone the Dewreck Anderson route by inserting "****" into every sentence specifically so people know he cares.

This is a guy anointed with "elite" talent. Let's discuss briefly and make sure this is even true: His best year he threw 26 TD's with 12 INT's. He almost threw for 4,000 yards so that's...good. His career best 26 TD's would have put him outside the top 10 last year. He's perennially between the likes of Carson Wentz and Kirk Cousins (with many more INT's than both). Does that warrant the angst about his salary, his continual disrespect to his teammates, coaches, and the organization? If we can't agree that he's been disrespectful then we're never going to agree. All this from a middle-of-the-pack QB statistically.

Basically I'm over the dude, I spent a lot of time supporting him in the past, but after some of his comments this year I'm just done. Does anyone really believe this guy has what it takes to lead a franchise? I've said this before and will again: He's an athletic Jay Cutler. Before you all laugh, what I mean by that is if you recall Jay was a dude with elite arm talent, so "they" said for like 10 years. But the guy was dumb as a rock. He'd get your hopes up with his talent, they'd pair him with an elite receiver, and then he'd just play stupid. Over and over and over. That's what Kyler is, he's the guy you look at and go man he's talented, he just needs (insert anything) and then he'll just piss you off for the next decade.

My .02.

 

[Chopper0080]

The part where he looks down at his play card and barks something to KM or is that just for show?

Lets break this down.

The play calls on the call sheet for the week are determined by a collaborative effort between the HC/OC/QB at the beginning of the game week.

Those are what the team practices all week.

The scripted plays are taken from that overall plan, and put together, once again, by the HC/OC/QB.

The QB has the freedom to audible out of any play when it is called in.

So, Kyler has a voice in the overall game plan, the scripted plays, and can audible whenever he wants. Hell, we even have Kyler who has said that sometimes he doesn't run the play Kliff calls anyways.

Kliff isn't Kyle Shanahan who you can see barking at his QB to "run the effing play".

 

[QuebecCard]

Lets break this down.

The play calls on the call sheet for the week are determined by a collaborative effort between the HC/OC/QB at the beginning of the game week.

Those are what the team practices all week.

The scripted plays are taken from that overall plan, and put together, once again, by the HC/OC/QB.

The QB has the freedom to audible out of any play when it is called in.

So, Kyler has a voice in the overall game plan, the scripted plays, and can audible whenever he wants. Hell, we even have Kyler who has said that sometimes he doesn't run the play Kliff calls anyways.

Kliff isn't Kyle Shanahan who you can see barking at his QB to "run the effing play".

So KK is offering no more than suggestions at best. OK, one can wonder, given your breakdown of the process, why he'd even bother, given that KM has the freedom to do whatever he likes. My understanding of audibles is that they are used when it's evident the initial call is doomed. I like to hear KM defend his calls for wide runs that invariably fail and flair passes behind the line. 'Tell me, Kyler, why did you decide to call that in the huddle or audible to it?'

 

[AZCB34]

Holy crap you can keep sayign the same thing and I agree with you but take a step back and ask what do you expect the Cards to do, bench Kyler for 36 year old McCoy? That's not going to happen, they're going to try and get better play from Kyler and it's apparent that's not happening with Kliff in charge IMO.

I get that Kliff has to deal with Kylers' poor play but it goes both ways, you can't just have Kliff say "play better". Everytime we get on a roll Kliff calls some stupid college play that loses 5 yards and has that look on his face like man that always worked against Sam Houston State.

I would consider benching Kyler for a game if he craps the bed again on Thursday if for no other reason than to let him see big picture and clear his head. It may well end up being a disastrous move since I think Kyler is mentally and physically soft but I would consider it if I was Kliff

 

[ASUCHRIS]

It's a laugh riot that after 4 years of this crap, people are asking if Kyler is adequately prepared. Of course not! The hallmarks of this team is a total lack of preparation, a total lack of attention to detail, and confusion and uncertainty.

4 years of this crap, and people are STILL trying to make excuses.

KVB said something interesting on the radio this morning - bad teams practice until they get it right, good teams practice until they can't get it wrong.

I think we know what kind of team we have here, frittering away a golden opportunity in a historically weak NFC.

 

[slanidrac16]

I would consider benching Kyler for a game if he craps the bed again on Thursday if for no other reason than to let him see big picture and clear his head. It may well end up being a disastrous move since I think Kyler is mentally and physically soft but I would consider it if I was Kliff

If we score 3 points again I’d sit him for a game. Let him pout.

 

[kerouac9]

I feel like I've been one of his hugest supporters, but I have to admit I've gone sour on the dude--specifically after his "study" comments to the NY Times earlier this year.

To be fair, those comments were made in the middle of last season around the time The Slide started happening.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Do you think Kliff is doing anything different than all the years Kyler improved? There are things to blame Kliff for but the way Kyler is playing isn't one of them. That's all on Kyler.

Now yes, there are a few plays that are dumb but they aren't the problem. Were talking 3-4 plays out of 60 and fans always jump on them.

The vast majority of passing plays are straight forward drop backs that rely on Kyler to do his job, and he simply isn't.

Oh and yes, I would bench him for McCoy. I believe any player playing that poorly needs a timeout. Kyler needs a shock to him system to knock some of the arrogance out.

I agree with everything but the last statement. Kyler needs to feel failure. He needs to feel it so strongly that he understands that HE needs to do more. IF he is half the competitor everyone says he is, he should be able to see this.