A Theory on Why Keim Needs to Go

[oaken1]

Wait you think Keim sabotaged the entire team (not just wilks because you can’t separate them) and you’re still “tossed up” on him?!? Wtf? If that’s even remotely true (which never in a million years will I believe) I want him gone even more!

thats why I'm tossed up....even I know that I am prone to conspiracy theories...so I am giving him the benefit of the doubt

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Budda Baker and Markus Golden are pretty good. Don't know how much of a "significant impact" one player can make on a team this bad. This isn't the NBA.

John Brown is on a 1-year, $5 million contract with Baltimore. We couldn't have given him that? It feels like there was a lot of weird personal stuff going on that's kept this team from maximizing its potential.

Agreed with Baker and Golden, even though I am still worried about Baker's ability to hold up at his size in this league.

John Brown is having an OK season for the Ravens (he has had some good games, and some very average games), and could not stay on the field in AZ. He is still not the player he once was, John Brown is one of the most depressing players that have ever played for AZ. He was electric his first two years here. Not signing John Brown was not as big a mistake as not bringing in a wide receiver for two years when it was a glaring need.

......nope, screwed up there, not bringing in a polished draft prospect or proven free agent when it was a glaring need was a mistake. Drafting Chad Williams was a joke, it was like making the Brandon Williams mistake all over.

Much like drafting Haason Reddick where he was drafted was the same mistake of drafting DJ Humphries where he was drafted.

Bobby Massie is a good name that should have been re-signed, and so was Alex Okafor.

At this point, I am very much regretting Mathieu leaving AZ, and I was all for it too. I should state Mathieu is right up there, when it comes to depressing situations for AZ. He was a DPOY talent before his injuries.


Best way I could sum up Steve Keim ? He seems to accidentally find his best players, and seems to always make the wrong move at the wrong time (fair to him or now).

Extends players who get immediately hurt, or suspended.

Lets players walk and they thrive.

Retains players and they regress.

It has been a woeful 3 years for the Cardinals.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

That is a huge complaint of mine. So many decent/good players have been let go by this team due to "money" or to give young players a shot.

Bobby Massie (has been mentioned a ton)
Tony Jefferson
John Brown
Alex Okafor
Kareem Martin
Calais Campbell
Jaron Brown
Darren Fells
Lorenzo Alexander
Tyrann Mathieu

Now, not all of these situations are the same, but you can't complain about your roster talent when you have let these types of players go.

Big complaint here as well, and a huge red flag I have always had regarding Keim - he drafts a replacement and then let's the vet walk with the assumption that the draftee is comparable:

Massie (Humphries)
Jefferson (any vet, but we also let Swearinger walk)
John Brown - unique case
Okafor (Golden)
Martin (any vet)
Campbell (Nkemdiche)
Jaron Brown (any vet)
Darren Fells (Niklas)
Alexander (any vet)
Mathieu (Baker)

And I get that you churn trying to improve, so the (any vet) options are probably valid as a GM choice. It's the other half that do not make a lot of sense - I would rather have Fells, Massie, Campbell, Jefferson/Swearinger than saving a few bucks and assuming that those draftees are any good, especially since several of those draftees had injury concerns and...wait for it...have lost significant time due to injury. You can draft AND keep the vet since a deep roster is preferable.

 

[az jam]

I was very positive on Keim especially after Rod Graves. Keim was a breath of fresh air. BA and Keim worked very well together. However, we have a major disaster now occurring with the Cards team and both Keim and Wilks are accountable. MB needs to bring in a new GM who will hire his own coach and turn the team around.

 

[NJCardFan]

Budda Baker and Markus Golden are pretty good. Don't know how much of a "significant impact" one player can make on a team this bad. This isn't the NBA.

John Brown is on a 1-year, $5 million contract with Baltimore. We couldn't have given him that? It feels like there was a lot of weird personal stuff going on that's kept this team from maximizing its potential.

Baker has pretty much disappeared(17 tackles in the last 5 games and hasn't had a single interception all season) and Golden hasn't been the same since injury.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Baker has pretty much disappeared(17 tackles in the last 5 games and hasn't had a single interception all season) and Golden hasn't been the same since injury.

Budda wasn't an interceptor in College and a healthy year is the best we could expect from Golden given his injury.

 

[cardpa]

Budda Baker and Markus Golden are pretty good. Don't know how much of a "significant impact" one player can make on a team this bad. This isn't the NBA.

John Brown is on a 1-year, $5 million contract with Baltimore. We couldn't have given him that? It feels like there was a lot of weird personal stuff going on that's kept this team from maximizing its potential.

I don't get the John Brown love around here. He had a hot start in Baltimore and has tailed off, no fallen off the cliff the second half of the season. In his last seven games he has 11 catches for 123 yds. and 1 TD, and not more than 28 yds. in any one game. Trent Sherfield has 11 catches for 125 yds. and a TD in the 5 games he has played in with 77 yds. as his high yardage game. Brown had 28 catches for 581 yds. and 4 TDs in his first seven games. For the year 39-681-5 for Brown. I just don't see that as worth $5 million for one year.

 

[Buckybird]

I believe that Steve Keim is an average to above-average General Manager in the NFL. I think we're more likely to get the next Jason Licht than we are the next Les Snead. But the last few years have been tough, and I've been trying to figure out what might have "happened" with Keim.

To me, the most likely explanation is that Keim is dealing with the long-term effects of Jonathan Cooper not working out and the inevitable correction that comes from all the "Keim Time Signings": short-term signings become expensive.

An alternative, and more attractive, explanation is that Keim and Arians had a uniquely symbiotic relationship. Kevin Clark of the Ringer made the point last offseason that Arians was a guy who was great at talking veteran players into "giving it one last go," and Keim was good at working with Arians to find guys who could still be productive. Keim may not be equipped with his own vision for how a team should be built, and why.

So he relied on Steve Wilks, who did have a vision for how and why to build a team: run the ball and stop the run. He acquired players designed around that vision, and Wilks and his staff both failed to maximize those players and the players weren't good enough.

That's why the Keim-to-the-Raiders rumor is so intriguing: Keim could complement Gruden the way he did Arians. I'm not sure that re-building most of the offense is going to fit with Keim's skill set.

Where should we look? I'm thinking look at the teams who successfully re-built on the fly: Philly and Kansas City immediately come to mind.

Very good post K9.

I believe the scouting department needs to be overhauled as well. I think most of these guys have been with the Cards for quite some time, including several former Cards players who may or may not be good at what they do.

 

[Arz101]

Yup, M.Bidwill is going to fire everything and anything that moves on Hardy Dr on Black Monday. It will not be a surprise if many AzCardinals.com media members are let go as well before Spring 2019.

 

[kerouac9]

I don't get the John Brown love around here. He had a hot start in Baltimore and has tailed off, no fallen off the cliff the second half of the season. In his last seven games he has 11 catches for 123 yds. and 1 TD, and not more than 28 yds. in any one game. Trent Sherfield has 11 catches for 125 yds. and a TD in the 5 games he has played in with 77 yds. as his high yardage game. Brown had 28 catches for 581 yds. and 4 TDs in his first seven games. For the year 39-681-5 for Brown. I just don't see that as worth $5 million for one year.

I guess because John Brown has shown that he can play football for multiple seasons in the NFL, even if he's maybe not a great starter. What you're saying is that Sherfield had one game where he had 77 yards and four games where he had a total of 50 yards. Sounds like a starting-caliber NFL wideout.

We could've had both. I think that any process that ends with you deciding that Brice Butler and Greg Little are as good as John Brown is a process that is bad. That's what happened this last offseason.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't get the John Brown love around here. He had a hot start in Baltimore and has tailed off, no fallen off the cliff the second half of the season. In his last seven games he has 11 catches for 123 yds. and 1 TD, and not more than 28 yds. in any one game. Trent Sherfield has 11 catches for 125 yds. and a TD in the 5 games he has played in with 77 yds. as his high yardage game. Brown had 28 catches for 581 yds. and 4 TDs in his first seven games. For the year 39-681-5 for Brown. I just don't see that as worth $5 million for one year.

It isn't love. It is that we are talking about being desperate for WRs a year after we let a 5 TD, 700 yd WR walk for 5 mil. It is the idea of letting a proven commodity walk out the door when you have no clue if the guy you are replacing him on the roster can replace his production.

We let Alex Okafor go and he is making 2.3 mil. We bring in Mayowa who has been good for 1.3 mil. We saved a mil but had to integrate a whole new player into the system. Kareem Martin is making 3.5 mil. Maybe we could have had him for 3 mil. At some point it is worth keeping your 3rd and 4th DE/OLB around to build up a position of strength.

Imagine having Veldheer and Massie with DJ having to force them out of their starting spot. It only would have cost us 5 mil per season.

Paying Jaron Brown 1.7 mil instead of having to bring in both Greg Little and Brice Butler.

Sometimes paying for production you know is better than paying for something that you don't know. It also can keep you from overspending which huge amounts of cap space can do. I would have rather have Okafor, Jaron Brown, and John Brown than Jermaine Gresham.

 

[Cheesebeef]

With the number 1 pick in the draft, a ton of cap room and a possible QBOTF on the roster, the main reason for me dude's gotta go is because our GM job will never be more appealing... neither will the HC position.

Keim is obviously on shaky ground... and that means he's going to be desperate to make us better next year and I don't like a franchise operating out of desperation. I also believe that getting a great HC candidate will be made tougher if they're coming in here with GM on the chopping block, as opposed to a new GM and Coach coming in together as a united front to build this team up.

It's that simple.

 

[kerouac9]

With the number 1 pick in the draft, a ton of cap room and a possible QBOTF on the roster, the main reason for me dude's gotta go is because our GM job will never be more appealing... neither will the HC position.

Keim is obviously on shaky ground... and that means he's going to be desperate to make us better next year and I don't like a franchise operating out of desperation. I also believe that getting a great HC candidate will be made tougher if they're coming in here with GM on the chopping block, as opposed to a new GM and Coach coming in together as a united front to build this team up.

It's that simple.

There are only 32 GM positions in the NFL, and only a handful (3-5?) become available each season. If you're having to fight over candidates for this role, your franchise already has a poisonous problem.

The NFL is such a year-to-year league, it's difficult to see what a "desperate" GM can do to screw a team in the long term. This isn't the NBA where a GM can spin out a long-term, fully guaranteed contract.

 

[Chopper0080]

To continue the point. If you are the Cardinals, it is better to pay to keep Olson Pierre and Rodney Gunter around rather than letting them go and having to draft replacements.

 

[Dback Jon]

Not keeping Massie around was a bad choice. He signed a three-year, $18M contract with $6.5M guaranteed three years ago. He's never had a cap hit greater than $6.1M. Arians' staff wasn't great at developing OL.

What was Arians' staff good at developing?

 

[kerouac9]

What was Arians' staff good at developing?

Wideouts. Running backs. Defensive ends. Safeties. ILBs.

People thought Kevin Minter was good when he was here! On good defenses! He has 14 NFL appearances since he left here.

 

[Cheesebeef]

There are only 32 GM positions in the NFL, and only a handful (3-5?) become available each season. If you're having to fight over candidates for this role, your franchise already has a poisonous problem.

The NFL is such a year-to-year league, it's difficult to see what a "desperate" GM can do to screw a team in the long term. This isn't the NBA where a GM can spin out a long-term, fully guaranteed contract.

I think the Vikings might think otherwise, setting themselves up for mediocrity for 3 years with that massive contract given to an average QB. Keim can absolutely go nuts in FA and hamstring us... he could decide he needs the most ready for NFL player NOW with limited upside with the 1st pick in the draft as opposed to being able to parlay having the first pick for more picks to stock the roster in the interest of long-term health in multiple positions. And more importantly, do you really want a lame duck GM making a choice on a new HC? Do you honestly think a lame-duck GM isn't something for an incoming coach to worry about?

You presented the Chiefs and another team... I believe it was the Panthers as examples of why GM changes don't necessarily mean a coach is going to have to look over his shoulder, while completely ignoring that those situations were completely different than ours. Both the Chiefs and the Panthers head coaches were either winning every year or at least getting into the playoffs every other year with a Super Bowl appearance. But neither of those are even close to what the situation would be here with a new coach coming in.

 

[TheCardFan]

To continue the point. If you are the Cardinals, it is better to pay to keep Olson Pierre and Rodney Gunter around rather than letting them go and having to draft replacements.

We can do much better at DT.

Minter was trash when he was here.

Letting Swearinger go was a mistake.

John Brown - smart move. Couldn't stay healthy and limited upside. Problem was not replacing him.

 

[kerouac9]

We can do much better at DT.

Minter was trash when he was here.

Letting Swearinger go was a mistake.

John Brown - smart move. Couldn't stay healthy and limited upside. Problem was not replacing him.

Hard to believe we're so bad after only making one bad decision.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Hard to believe we're so bad after only making one bad decision.

IMHO.

The biggest mistakes for Keim has been the draft.

I feel you could take most of his drafts and just slide the whole draft back a round.

The 1st round pick could be had in the 2nd round, the 2nd round pick (one of his WORST areas of the draft) could be had in round 3, etc. etc.

The trading up for marginal talents, and if I have said it once, I have said it a thousand times, too many small school prospects.

It becomes bothersome when an electrical engineer whose interest in the NFL is waning has better ideas of who to draft than the GM of the team he watches. It makes me SICK when I watch other games and hear names of players starting, or having significant roles that were had in rounds 4 through 7. ESPECIALLY as linebacker.

So, many linebackers in this league that are either starting or playing significant roles that were drafted in the 4th round or later.

Meanwhile our GM just cannot get enough project defensive backs, and woeful offensive line projects.

 

[TheCardFan]

Hard to believe we're so bad after only making one bad decision.

You missed the point...I am not defending Keim. The WR and LB rooms to start this year says it all.

He let players go without replacing them. He built zero depth across the roster. He paid Bradford big money vs finding a decent QB. Hell, Josh Johnson (Redskins) has played better than Bradford. Teddy Bridgewater would have been a better choice.

Bottom line. He started out with inferior talent in many ways and players that were injured or had a history of injuries. I don't disagree with letting many of those guys leave...I have a problem with not replacing them with better talent.

 

[Chopper0080]

We can do much better at DT.

Minter was trash when he was here.

Letting Swearinger go was a mistake.

John Brown - smart move. Couldn't stay healthy and limited upside. Problem was not replacing him.

Sure, but we probably need to actually have something better at DT before we let players go hoping that we can do better.

 

[football karma]

Sure, but we probably need to actually have something better at DT before we let players go hoping that we can do better.

this

Olsen Pierre in last year's scheme produced 5.5 sacks from the interior --playing part time

why should the team let that go?

 

[MadCardDisease]

So he relied on Steve Wilks, who did have a vision for how and why to build a team: run the ball and stop the run. He acquired players designed around that vision, and Wilks and his staff both failed to maximize those players and the players weren't good enough.

Did Keim really acquire players designed around Wilks vision? I find it hard to believe that Wilks was banging on the table to sign Greg Little and Sam Bradford. It seems to me that Wilks inherited a bunch of players who Keim and BA had an original vision for and Wilks was stuck with (Nkemdiche, Brandon Williams, Chad Williams, Reddick, Bucannon, etc).

Now Wilks and Co. did fail to maximize those inherited players but so did the previous staff.

 

[kerouac9]

Did Keim really acquire players designed around Wilks vision? I find it hard to believe that Wilks was banging on the table to sign Greg Little and Sam Bradford. It seems to me that Wilks inherited a bunch of players who Keim and BA had an original vision for and Wilks was stuck with (Nkemdiche, Brandon Williams, Chad Williams, Reddick, Bucannon, etc).

Now Wilks and Co. did fail to maximize those inherited players but so did the previous staff.

Benson Mayowa, Bene Benwikere, Jamar Taylor, Josh Bynes, Derek Coleman, Andre Smith.

You don't have to like Sam Bradford to see that he aligned with Wilks' vision of a play-action passing offense.

It's not the guys at the top of the roster that make up the vision of the coach/GM; it's the guys in the middle and bottom of the roster.