A treatise on dumb statements about Garnett for Stoudemire.

[The_Matrix]

Dumb Statement #1: KG doesn't get to the line! Amare shoots lots of free throws!
2006-2007 KG made 416 free throws. Amare made 457.

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Dumb Statement #2: Amare is great offense vs. Spurs!
No. Amare is merely adequate offense vs. Spurs. He is totally reliant on Nash for his points. Amare can't score consistenly against Duncan 1v1. If we dump the ball to Amare in the low post, Duncan will force him into a fadeway or block/challenge his off-balance lay-in attempt. Or, the Spurs can double team him, so Amare can pass to a cutter or open three point shooter right? Amare total assists in Spurs playoff series: 1.

Now, if we give the ball to Amare in the high post, he can take his inconsistent 15 foot jump shot, or he can attempt to face up and blow by Duncan for the layup/dunk. Post-foot-problems Duncan blocked Amare's drive attempts again and again.

So let's look at the pick n' roll. Bowen and Duncan managed to disrupt our offense well. Amare shot exactly 50 percent in the series, well below his 57.5 percent regular season. Nash had 27 turnovers. There was an ENOURMOUS amount of pressure on Nash to weave through the defense and make a pinpoint pass to Amare. If he passes to Amare or to a perimeter shooter and the Spurs rotate, the ball comes back to Nash with less than 10 seconds on the shot clock. Now Nash attempts to drive in for a layup, but Bowen strips the ball or Duncan swats the shot.

Despite all these problems, Amare still scored plenty of points for one reason: STEVE NASH. How did we win Game 4? Nash made consecutive awesome behind the back passes to Amare off the pick n' roll.

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Dumb Statement #3: KG offensively ain't much better than Amare!
OMG Amare scored 20 ppg and KG 22 ppg!!! We can't give up Amare for an extra two points!!!!

Last time I checked, Amare played with Steve Nash last year and KG played with Mike James and Randy Foye. Can you imagine what KG would do offensively on the Suns? When the Suns went from Starbury to Canadian, Amare went from 20ppg, 47.5% to 26ppg, 56%. KG could go from his typical 22ppg 50% to 28 ppg 55%.

Now let's analyze what really matters, Suns vs. Spurs. First of all KG can post up Duncan. KG's got the hook shots, post moves, left hand, etc. to score on Duncan in the post. What happens if the Spurs double team KG in the low post? WOW, he can do exactly what Duncan does! Pass to the open shooter! 4 apg on the Timberwolves, a 35% 3pt shooting team. Now he's kicking it out to Nash, Bell, Barbs and company. Maybe our regular-season dominant three-point shooting can extend to a playoff series vs. the Spurs.

How about KG's pick n' roll scoring? There's no doubt he can finish in the lane, with less power and more finesse than Amare. He probably won't be posterizing Josh Smith in February, but he'll finish those finger rolls over Duncan in June.

And finally, how about solving the Spurs D vs. the pick? Mix in the pick n' pop with Garnett. Instead of constantly rolling to the hoop off the pick, Garnett can pop for a mid-range shot, like Kurt Thomas does. Fortunately KG's jump shot is way more consistent than Amare's. This guy is accustomed to taking high-pressure jump shots in the fourth quarter. The Spurs want Bowen to fight through the pick. When Garnett pops, Duncan has to respect his jump shot and stay on the perimeter. Voila! Nash can drive to the hoop for a layup with no Duncan shot blocker.

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Inane Statement #1: Amare is our best post defender and we need his blocks!

********. Great defender? That's why the best move D'Antoni ever made was starting Kurt Thomas in Game 2? That's why Amare was second in the league in personal fouls this year? Why did Amare max out at 37 mpg two yrs ago? Because of CONSISTENT foul trouble. Everyone's watched Amare commit those silly ticky-tack fouls. It's not going to change. His yearly foul averages: 3.3 to 3.4 to 3.5 to 3.6. Compare this to Garnett who always goes 40mpg and 2.6 fouls.

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Final Dumb Statement: What stupid team trades a 1st team All-NBA 24 yr-old for a 31 yr-old?!?!

A team whose success is currently solely based on a 33 year old point guard. A team whose 1st team All-NBA center's sucess and statistics are completely in the hands of the point guard. How valuble is Amare, really?

All-NBA first team is Duncan, Dirk, Kobe, Nash, Amare. How far do Spurs, Mavs, Lakers go if their First-Teamer has a season-ending microfracture surgery? How far did we go without Amare last year, with Tim Thomas and Boris Diaw at the starting "power" forward and center? Gee, maybe Steve Nash wears the pants on this team, not Amare Stoudemire. Maybe we *can't* build for the future around our "1st team all nba franchise center". Maybe we should pick up a veteran who single-handedly IS a franchise to get past the Spurs and win a chip while our 1st team all nba franchise point guard is still around.

 

[sharkman]

 

[azirish]

-

A treatise on dumb statements about Garnett for Stoudemire

How about someone pretending to be a Suns fan who comes off sounding like a troll?

 

[cly2tw]

Hahahaha

 

[Cheesebeef]

is this actually Shawn Marion posting? if so... TAKE THE DAMN EXTENSION FROM BOSTON YOU FREAKING SCARECROW!

 

[sharkman]

is this actually Shawn Marion posting?

Yup....or a relative.

 

[Ryanwb]

treatise? more like diatribe

 

[The_Matrix]

I wouldn't mind discussing the issue a bit... I thought I made some good points about why Garnett would be better for us than Amare.

 

[SunsTzu]

is this actually Shawn Marion posting? if so... TAKE THE DAMN EXTENSION FROM BOSTON YOU FREAKING SCARECROW!

My 1st and 2nd thoughts as I read this(although I didn't read very far).

 

[Cheesebeef]

I wouldn't mind discussing the issue a bit... I thought I made some good points about why Garnett would be better for us than Amare.

it doesn't matter if Marion is still the 3rd banana. we're just as screwed in that case, in fact, it's even worse IMO.

 

[SunsTzu]

I wouldn't mind discussing the issue a bit... I thought I made some good points about why Garnett would be better for us than Amare.

The upgrade from Amare to KG straight up is small if any. The upgrade from Amare + fillers that will be needed for KG is non-existant.

The upgrade from Marion to KG is massive. Amare/KG frontcourt would be one of the best in league history. A Marion/KG frontcourt is similar to what we already have.

 

[The_Matrix]

The upgrade from Amare to KG straight up is small if any.

Defense: Immense upgrade.
Offense: Should be about the same statistically, but much more flexible with KG's outside shooting, post moves, passing. Plus some pressure relieved on Nash.
Rebounding: Significant upgrade.
Intangibles: Everyone's talked about Amare's locker room problems, KG is a loud leader who can get on your nerves, so call it even.

Isn't this an all around huge upgrade?

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Except marion gets even less spotlight and becomes even more disgruntled...

Why doesnt marion want to go to boston? isnt that exactly what he wanted? More spotlight on a playoff potential team?

Now he is becoming a plug in a 3 way deal because he doesnt want to leave the team that doesnt give him enough respect?

I really dont get it.

 

[SunsTzu]

Defense: Immense upgrade.

KG is a better defender, no arguement. But TD(the guy we are most concerned with) abuses KG just the same. Not to mention any trade would likely include KT and I'l take KT/Amare on defense over KG by himself.

Offense: Should be about the same statistically, but much more flexible with KG's outside shooting, post moves, passing. Plus some pressure relieved on Nash.

KG is a better passer, not a better shooter or finisher around the basket.

Rebounding: Significant upgrade.

Amare was getting 12rpg in the postseason. KG is a superior rebounder but I doubt he gets much more than that playing next to Marion.

Intangibles: Everyone's talked about Amare's locker room problems, KG is a loud leader who can get on your nerves, so call it even.

Amare never punched a teammate.

KG/Amare=legendary.

KG/Marion=pretty good and likely a loss to the Spurs.

 

[Greg Popovich]

I think the worst move in the history of the Suns franchise would be to get rid of STAT.

If you put KG and STAT together--Suns will win championship for at least the next 3-4 years.

Take STAT out of the lineup and rely on KG to take the Suns to the promised land--huge mistake.

The person who started this thread has a lot of data to support his theory.

I don't have any--just a gut feeling.

Tim Duncan usually has great games against KG--but admittedly, the Spurs would have a helluva time fending off both KG and STAT.

Bottom line: Kerr is no dummy--he knows what I am stating better than anyone.

The stuff is media-driven--any rumor is being hoisted up as "breaking news," "informed sources, " etc.

I frankly think Coach D was correct in his early statements--the team is great as it is.

Meanwhile, SA fans are praying that STAT goes to Atlanta...

 

[D-Dogg]

Who did KG punch?

 

[cly2tw]

KG/Marion=pretty good and likely a loss to the Spurs.

And likely to the Mavs too, as Terry and Harris will shut Marion down so that Buckner, Howard and whoever could try to harass Nash the way Bowen did.

 

[Chaplin]

Who did KG punch?

Rick Rickert. And I believe he got into a major fight with Wally at some point a few years ago.

 

[Gaddabout]

Rick Rickert. And I believe he got into a major fight with Wally at some point a few years ago.

To be fair, there were about 10,000 folks in Tucson that wanted to punch Rick Rickert at one point. He has that affect on people.

 

[The_Matrix]

KG is a better defender, no arguement. But TD(the guy we are most concerned with) abuses KG just the same. Not to mention any trade would likely include KT and I'l take KT/Amare on defense over KG by himself.

If TD is going to get his points, we need to try to slow down Parker, Ginobili. KG is undoubtedly much better for that task. And why mention KT? Amare for KG straight up is what all the discussion is about. The conclusion is that KG provides a hugh defensive improvement.

KG is a better passer, not a better shooter or finisher around the basket.

You cannot possibly believe that Amare has a better jump shot that Garnett. You just can't. Around the basket, Garnett finishes with finesse rather than power. HE HAS BACK TO THE BASKET MOVES. That means he can POST UP, something Amare can't do consistently.

Amare was getting 12rpg in the postseason. KG is a superior rebounder but I doubt he gets much more than that playing next to Marion.

Exactly, Garnett is a superior rebounder. Amare was 10.6 rpg vs. Spurs while Duncan was 13.6. Yes, statistically KG's rebs would go down a bit with Marion. Forget the stats though. If it's the fourth quarter, game tied 20 seconds left and Ginobili bricks a three, I want KG flying for the long reb.

Amare never punched a teammate.

True, forgot about that.

 

[cly2tw]

If TD is going to get his points, we need to try to slow down Parker, Ginobili. KG is undoubtedly much better for that task. And why mention KT? Amare for KG straight up is what all the discussion is about. The conclusion is that KG provides a hugh defensive improvement.


You cannot possibly believe that Amare has a better jump shot that Garnett. You just can't. Around the basket, Garnett finishes with finesse rather than power. HE HAS BACK TO THE BASKET MOVES. That means he can POST UP, something Amare can't do consistently.




Exactly, Garnett is a superior rebounder. Amare was 10.6 rpg vs. Spurs while Duncan was 13.6. Yes, statistically KG's rebs would go down a bit with Marion. Forget the stats though. If it's the fourth quarter, game tied 20 seconds left and Ginobili bricks a three, I want KG flying for the long reb.


True, forgot about that.

Hi, Matrix,

KG for Amare is a lateral move at best, but could you explain to us how the Suns could overcome Bowen on Nash when you get your ass shut down by Parker all the time? Don't you realize that because of that Nash couldn't lead the team and unleash the "Suns" offense as we are used to that get you the bloated stats numbers? As a result, we had to rely on power moves by Amare to have chance to stay in the game with Spurs. And KG is not to provide the same power in the sure situation that Nash gets shut down because you get shut down by Parker!!

 

[The_Matrix]

Take STAT out of the lineup and rely on KG to take the Suns to the promised land--huge mistake.

The person who started this thread has a lot of data to support his theory.

I don't have any--just a gut feeling.

Meanwhile, SA fans are praying that STAT goes to Atlanta...

The question is pretty simple, which combo is better to win it all now? Nash + Amare or Nash + KG? Do the SA fans really want to see Big Ticket and Nash on the same squad? Think of what KG can be with the teammates he's always wanted: floor leader pg, cleanup guy defensive sf, three point shooters everywhere.

 

[SunsTzu]

Amare for KG straight up is what all the discussion is about.

Any realistic trade will likely include KT's expiring contract. I also don't think KG is much better with help defense than Amare.

You cannot possibly believe that Amare has a better jump shot that Garnett. You just can't. Around the basket, Garnett finishes with finesse rather than power. HE HAS BACK TO THE BASKET MOVES. That means he can POST UP, something Amare can't do consistently.

They actually shoot about the same FG% on their jumpers and before you say it's Nash setting Amare up, Amare is assisted on fewer of his jumpers. KG may be better with his back to the basket but Amare imporves his post play each year. I also don't believe KG's FG% will go up the 10% needed to match Amare's playing with the Suns. Amare is the best finisher in the league.

Exactly, Garnett is a superior rebounder. Amare was 10.6 rpg vs. Spurs while Duncan was 13.6. Yes, statistically KG's rebs would go down a bit with Marion. Forget the stats though. If it's the fourth quarter, game tied 20 seconds left and Ginobili bricks a three, I want KG flying for the long reb.

I'll always count on Amare in the crunch to make a key play. Just like in '05 when he had that ridiculous game saving block on TD that led the Suns to their only win in the series. Amare is a playoff performer who takes his game to a new level when the stakes are high.


I'll take the 24 year old all nba 1st team player.

 

[az1965]

Who did KG punch?

And KG and Marbury did not get along...

 

[SunsTzu]

The question is pretty simple, which combo is better to win it all now? Nash + Amare or Nash + KG? Do the SA fans really want to see Big Ticket and Nash on the same squad? Think of what KG can be with the teammates he's always wanted: floor leader pg, cleanup guy defensive sf, three point shooters everywhere.

Spurs fans and Mavs fans alike are hoping the Suns trade Amare for KG.