A treatise on dumb statements about Garnett for Stoudemire.

[Covert Rain]

Hands down one of the worst posts ever.

 

[The_Matrix]

...at least I backed my statement up with statistics...Amare had the highest efficiency rating (the benchmark used by many in the NBA to evaluate productivity on the court) of any player in the playoffs...period.

I'm sure your "many in the NBA" would rather have Amare than Tim Duncan. Amare is more efficient right? That must mean he's more productive than Tim Duncan. Never mind inflated statistics or anything logical like that. Efficiency Rating = Championships. My Toyota Camry has better fuel mileage than that Lambroghini. I think I can win this quarter-mile race.

Sharkman, our discourse may be a bit over your head, you'll probably want to sit this one out.

 

[SunsTzu]

You do realize if we were the number one seed we'd have won the championship right? The regular season means a hell of alot.

The only team that would have had HCA over the Suns was eliminated in the 1st round. I don't see how you can say this, unless you're assuming the Suns don't get those suspentions in the WCF.

 

[sharkman]

1. What bizarro world do we live in where 20.4 PPG, 9.6 RPG, 1 APG are better than 22.4 PPG, 12.8 RPG, and 4.1 APG?

2. That's because the Wolves are a sorry excuse for a franchise and Garnett has nobody around him.

3. Only because Forward is the most stacked position in the league, Yao got injured, and all the other centers suck. Are you going to now tell me that Amare is better than LeBron because LeBron was second team?

You want Garnett to win in the playoffs right? Then use playoff statistics. Amare dominates every player...not just Garnett...he even out-stats Duncan.

Your reasonaing for bringing in Garnett is to advance further in the playoffs...not to win more regular season games...Garnett has not shown anything to suggest that he would put up dominating numbers in the post season. Amare has....he was the most productive player in the playoffs. Period. And if you can't read a stat sheet...then there is no more room for discussion, since facts won't sway your opinion.

 

[SunsTzu]

The Mavericks would have beaten the Spurs in the second round. At least that's the way I look at it.

The Mavs barely got past a beat up Spurs team last year and the way Kobe has gone off on them I'm not sure they match up any better against the Lakers than they did the Warriors.

 

[sharkman]

You do realize if we were the number one seed we'd have won the championship right? The regular season means a hell of alot.

You just shattered your own argument.

Why on earth would you want to break up a team that would have won the NBA championship if only they had won more regular season games?

 

[slinslin]

I'm sure your "many in the NBA" would rather have Amare than Tim Duncan. Amare is more efficient right? That must mean he's more productive than Tim Duncan. Never mind inflated statistics or anything logical like that. Efficiency Rating = Championships. My Toyota Camry has better fuel mileage than that Lambroghini. I think I can win this quarter-mile race.

Sharkman, our discourse may be a bit over your head, you'll probably want to sit this one out.

And if your boy Shawn Marion doesn't lay an egg, plus Steve Nash playing subpar, Barbosa playing terrible etc... Marc Ivaroni keeping the bench back etc..

The Suns win this series and everyone would be raving about Amare dominating the Spurs, that's reality.

 

[SunsTzu]

Just to add to the value of Amare. The rumored trade to Atlanta made the Hawks a feared team. Just read the message boards for EC teams and how relieved they are the trade didn't happen.

 

[sharkman]

I'm sure your "many in the NBA" would rather have Amare than Tim Duncan. Amare is more efficient right? That must mean he's more productive than Tim Duncan. Never mind inflated statistics or anything logical like that. Efficiency Rating = Championships. My Toyota Camry has better fuel mileage than that Lambroghini. I think I can win this quarter-mile race.

Sharkman, our discourse may be a bit over your head, you'll probably want to sit this one out.

Though you have too much of your weight in my lap, I can see over your head quite nicely. The discussion had nothing to do with Duncan or inflated stats...it had to do with Garnetts productivity versus Amare's...and in the playoffs, Amare's productivity was the best of any player. Duncan played admirably....as did Parker and Ginobili...and Horry and Bowen for that matter....

...but the discussion was limited to a heads up comparison between Amare and Garnett...and if you have to single out the playoff's single best performer...efficiency ratings are not a bad benchmark....and by that criteria, Amare was the best.

The Spurs were the best team since they have the trophy....but Amare had the best individual performance. If Barbosa doesn't injure his arm against the Lakers (making him go 2-17 from 3 point range against the Spurs)....we aren't even having this discussion.

 

[The_Matrix]

Just to add to the value of Amare. The rumored trade to Atlanta made the Hawks a feared team. Just read the message boards for EC teams and how relieved they are the trade didn't happen.

Why should Suns fans care about how message board posters on other online forums are so relieved that a hypothetical trade didn't happen yet? Come on, man.

 

[The_Matrix]

The discussion had nothing to do with Duncan or inflated stats...it had to do with Garnetts productivity versus Amare's...and in the playoffs, Amare's productivity was the best of any player...but the discussion was limited to a heads up comparison between Amare and Garnett...and if you have to single out the playoff's single best performer...efficiency ratings are not a bad benchmark....and by that criteria, Amare was the best.

If...you...pair...Garnett...with...Nash...his...productivity...and...efficiency... in...the...playoffs...is...as...good...or...better...than...Amare's.

And his defense is way better. Slow...enough...for...you?

 

[SunsTzu]

Why should Suns fans care about how message board posters on other online forums are so relieved that a hypothetical trade didn't happen yet? Come on, man.

Yeah other peoples opinions don't matter.

Fact is even a rumor of Amare being traded puts fear into that teams competition. The Suns competition has no fear of KG if it costs them Amare.

 

[slinslin]

If...you...pair...Garnett...with...Nash...his...productivity...and...efficiency... in...the...playoffs...is...as...good...or...better...than...Amare's.

And his defense is way better. Slow...enough...for...you?

No and you are wrong anyway..

Garnett can't replace Amare.

 

[sharkman]

Slow...enough...for...you?

It was just average for me....but practice makes perfect.



(Please don't ban me...you can see from the thread that I am Amare in this discussion and he is Horry...it would be an injustice )

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

If...you...pair...Garnett...with...Nash...his...productivity...and...efficiency... in...the...playoffs...is...as...good...or...better...than...Amare's.

And his defense is way better. Slow...enough...for...you?

Why... replace... your... franchise... player... when... you... could... have... him... play... next... to... KG... and... trade... egg-laying-under-appreciated-attention-hungry-marion...instead

 

[dodie53]

imo,
amare > KG > marion
therefore,
we will not trade amare for KG but we will trade marion for KG.
=)

 

[The_Matrix]

imo,
amare > KG > marion

Please state any facet of a future series vs. the Spurs where:
[Amare + Nash] > [KG + Nash].

You may chose any of the following, but please explain your answer. Finally, unless you know KG's exact future statistics playing alongside Steve Nash, be wary of don't comparing offensive stats.

1. Offense
a.Low post, back to basket, 1v1 KG
b.High post, pick n' roll or pick n' pop Even, KG better midrange,
Amare explosive inside
c.Outside shooting KG
d.Passing KG

2. Defense
a. Shot blocking KG
b. Steals KG
c. Staying out of foul trouble KG
d. Preventing Parker/Ginobili penetration KG
e. Rotating and challenging 3 pointers KG

3. Rebounding
a. Offensive KG
b. Defensive KG

 

[gusmahler]

Now let's analyze what really matters, Suns vs. Spurs.

Why is this "what really mattes"? Yes, we lost to the Spurs this year and in 2005. But, last I checked, there were 3 (or 4) elite Western teams. There is zero guarantee we'll even face Duncan in next year's playoffs (the Mavs could knock them off).

 

[Chaz]

personally, I'd rather rely on a guy who can punish the lane, going unstopped into the paint until he powers up for and 1s, rather then rely on a turnaround JUMPER. but that's just me.

I fail to see how having a big man(especially if he is your only big man like KG would be) rely on his jumper is a good thing. The fact Amare doesn't need to rely on his jumper is why I keep him over KG.

^^^
exactly.

KG is a 7 foot finesse player. Amare is a power player.

Suns are already a finesse team with the exception of Amare.

Kg would be a good compliment to Amare but would not be a good replacement for him.

 

[Joe Mama]

I could spend a couple hours going through all of the posts in this thread in pointing out all the problems with the arguments on both sides. A couple things though...

1. I'm not sure how any rational person could think that Kevin Garnett and Shawn Marion would be better against the San Antonio Spurs than Kevin Garnett and Amare Stoudemire. The single biggest problem the Phoenix Suns have against San Antonio is that their $16 million small forward is easily shut down offensively by an average defender sticking to him. That said, that's not really the point of all of this. The question is whether the Phoenix Suns have a better shot with KG or Amare Stoudemire... at least for this argument.

2. You just can not compare Amare Stoudemire and KG statistically because they play on completely different teams. First of all, it's nearly impossible to show the defensive difference statistically. And there is a big difference despite what some here believe.

3. It's not just that Amare Stoudemire has Steve Nash constantly giving him great looks at the basket. Amare Stoudemire just doesn't get the defensive attention that KG gets. San Antonio's defensive philosophy against the Phoenix Suns for two pro seasons now has been to allow Amare Stoudemire to do what he's going to do and shut down the three-point shots. Against Minnesota, Kevin Garnett is the focus of the defense.

4. Kevin Garnett is a much better rebounder than Amare Stoudemire. I don't care what kind of numbers people can dig up to try and disprove that. Just watch a couple games. I know Amare Stoudemire's rebounding numbers went up in the playoffs, but they were still countless possessions where he didn't put a body on someone or was just plain lazy and got beaten for boards.

5. I honestly don't think the Phoenix Suns would miss a beat off offensively with KG instead of Amare Stoudemire. However this argument that KG is every bit as good as Amare and around the basket is plain nonsense. A couple weeks before the playoffs I didn't feel that way.

6. Of course I do think Kevin Garnett could easily shoot 55% on this Phoenix Suns team.

7. This whole argument that Amare Stoudemire is better than KG because he was a first-team all NBA player and Kevin Garnett was second or third team (I can't remember) is just absurd. Amare Stoudemire was first-team all NBA by default, and we all know it. It wasn't just Yao Ming who is injured. Shaquille O'Neal was injured all year also. If he was playing his natural position, power forward, Amare Stoudemire might not have even been third team all NBA. Nude

8. It doesn't look like Amare Stoudemire is going anywhere at this point. I hope this means that the Phoenix Suns are very confident in his health. My single biggest fear is that they don't move him, and he has more knee problems in the near future. It just seems like something that would happen to this franchise.

Joe

 

[nowagimp]

You cannot possibly believe that Amare has a better jump shot that Garnett. You just can't. Around the basket, Garnett finishes with finesse rather than power. HE HAS BACK TO THE BASKET MOVES. That means he can POST UP, something Amare can't do consistently.

True amare does not have the 15-17ft jumper or fadeaway that KG has. Thing is, amares superior speed off the dribble and ability to finish at the rim keeps defenders further off him so he gets an open shot. He is an 80% foul shooter so open 15-17ft jumpers are good shots for him. KG on the other hand is not respected the same at the rim, so he is pressured more on his jumper, shoots quite a few "unblockable" turnaround fadeaways. KG is more finess on offense, but with less speed off the dribble. I sure would love to have KG, but not at the expense of amare.

It interesting that people compare Duncan against amare with DUNCANS ankle being the difference in past two years. Before amares injury he ate duncan up off the dribble, when Duncan was healthy. The spurs send 2-3 guys at amare on every play, and the first defender is usually not duncan(more likely oberto, Horry). We have not seen amare go one on one with duncan in the '07 playoffs without 2-3 defenders in the lane area. When amare got around duncan off the dribble, horry or oberto was there to get a flop foul as they run in front of amare. Their defensive assignments must score to punish that play and amare has to adjust, make the passes. Dont give the credit to duncan, he doesnt defend amare by himself, and there is a counter to the spurs "lane collapse defense". Even then, it took the suspensions to get homecourt back for the spurs in that series. This year Amare will be stronger, quicker, faster, and pass better, take it to the bank. As much as I'd love KG on the suns, he is fading in his skills, except bball smarts. To have both would be great, but I'd take amare and his 8 mil less salary so we can afford a bench.