A treatise on dumb statements about Garnett for Stoudemire.

[Cheesebeef]

The question is pretty simple, which combo is better to win it all now? Nash + Amare or Nash + KG? Do the SA fans really want to see Big Ticket and Nash on the same squad? Think of what KG can be with the teammates he's always wanted: floor leader pg, cleanup guy defensive sf, three point shooters everywhere.

you know what I see up there? A reason for KG to be even MORE unselfish than he already is... which is a great thing for a player in general, but not for a flat-out Franchise player. It's what's ALWAYS kept KG from being one of the all-time greats IMO. He doesn't have that killer instinct.

 

[azirish]

This is the NBA. Amare is actually reasonably priced (thankfully the CBA prevented the Suns from paying him more) and he can be surrounded by quality players. He's still got a lot of time left on his contract so he's not going to break the bank nor leave in a couple of years.

KG is great, but he's not "reasonably priced". His contract has been an a huge problem for the Wolves for years.

The only reason the Marion deal makes sense is that his contract is a big problem for the Suns too. By making that trade, the Suns give up an overpriced player for another overpriced player while reducing the need for KT.

It could be that all the Suns would be doing is using some draft picks to rent a guy who give the Suns a better chance to win the championship.

But for Amare, the deal does not look like a huge improvements on the floor, some but not huge. However, it is a financial disaster, there is still the overpaid Marion, and both KG and Marion are off contract at the same time.

 

[SunsTzu]

He doesn't have that killer instinct.

If only the Suns had someone with that killer instinct............oh yeah they do, and they better not trade him.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

KG is a better defender, no arguement. But TD(the guy we are most concerned with) abuses KG just the same. Not to mention any trade would likely include KT and I'l take KT/Amare on defense over KG by himself.

First of all, the rumored Atlanta trade does not entail us sending KT. And KG either holds his ground or outplays Duncan during head to head matchups. From another thread:

In fact, if you toss out the first two years of Duncan's career (because it would be unfair to measure what was then a relative new comer to Kevin Garnett who had more experience), Garnett clearly outperforms Duncan when they play against one another:

Garnett: 22 PPG, 13 RPG, 5 APG

Duncan: 21 PPG, 12 RPG, 4 APG

If you want to look at just the past two years to see how they've done against one another recently:

Garnett: 23 PPG, 16 RPG, 5 APG, 47% FG

Duncan: 18 PPG, 11 RPG, 3 APG, 50% FG

And they actually play against one another, unlike Amare who has to guard Oberto/Elson/Random SA Scrub.

KG is a better passer, not a better shooter or finisher around the basket.

Amare is a better finisher. But Garnett is a much better shooter (his turnaround jumpshot is practically unguardable, and Amare's face up jumper, while improving, is still streaky), and Garnett is a way better low post and back to the basket player.

Amare was getting 12rpg in the postseason. KG is a superior rebounder but I doubt he gets much more than that playing next to Marion.

KG is the best rebounder in the NBA. I'd say he's worth around 3 to 4 boards a game.

Amare never punched a teammate.

KG/Amare=legendary.

KG/Marion=pretty good and likely a loss to the Spurs.

And KG has never been called out for dogging it on the court and not having a championship hunger.

KG/Amare = serious perimeter defensive issues, but I'd agree we'd win the title.

KG/Marion = three rings

 

[Greg Popovich]

I think that Amare has proven in the past that he can score almost at will against the Spurs.

True--has has a better team than KG does.

But yeah--I think if given a choice, SA would prefer to see a Nash + KG rather tha Nash + STAT.

Why commit such a risk when your team already has Dallas beaten and came within a fraction of an inch short against SA even when the team was short-handed?

Yes--make that trade. Please.

 

[Chaplin]

I think that Amare has proven in the past that he can score almost at will against the Spurs.

True--has has a better team than KG does.

But yeah--I think if given a choice, SA would prefer to see a Nash + KG rather tha Nash + STAT.

Why commit such a risk when your team already has Dallas beaten and came within a fraction of an inch short against SA even when the team was short-handed?

Yes--make that trade. Please.

How about Amare/KG/Nash instead of Amare/Marion/Nash? Would you love it?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Spurs fans and Mavs fans alike are hoping the Suns trade Amare for KG.

KG as a number one option does NOT scare the big boys. Especially when that number three option is Marion(who can unbelievably get shut down by Parker or Terry) and Nash who can get shut down by Bowen or harassed by Howard.

 

[az1965]

Dumb treatise...

 

[cly2tw]

KG/Amare = serious perimeter defensive issues, but I'd agree we'd win the title.

KG/Marion = three rings

Could you solve the problem I mentioned in post #21? Wait, I guess you mean we won't meet Spurs or Mavs on the way to the 3 titles, right?

 

[SunsTzu]

Where is this nonsense of KG being a better shooter than Amare come from? Is it just because he takes more?

Amare shot 43.6% on his jumper and was assisted on 59% of them.

KG shot 43.4% on his jumpers and was assisted on 61% of them.

True defender may give Amare more room to shoot but only because they fear an AND1 with a poster if they don't give him space.

 

[The_Matrix]

KG is great, but he's not "reasonably priced". His contract has been an a huge problem for the Wolves for years.

It could be that all the Suns would be doing is using some draft picks to rent a guy who give the Suns a better chance to win the championship.

Azirish, do you think it is more important to maximize our chances to win a championship in the next 2-3 years, or set a solid financial footing for the Suns' future without Steve Nash?

I believe the championship comes first, and I believe that KG+Nash offers significant overall improvements over Amare+Nash especially in defense and rebounding, while the offense holds level. Therefore trading Amare for KG is the correct move.

 

[Diawsome]

And why mention KT? Amare for KG straight up is what all the discussion is about.

Because the Suns would have to trade Kurt Thomas and someone else (Marcus Banks) with Amare just to match KG's salary. So you have to factor in what the Suns would lose from them production wise seeing as how you would be forced to play KG 40+ minutes every night due to not having a back up big man.

 

[Greg Popovich]

Like I said before--

The whole key for the Suns would be for them to get KG without getting rid of STAT.

Nash/STAT/KG=many championships for the Suns.

Nash/Marion/KG=risk; would be lucky to have a core as good as the Suns currently have; IMHO would not be better than the current core.

Which is why SA fans are very happy with even the mere prospect that STAT goes elsewhere.

 

[SunsTzu]

And they actually play against one another, unlike Amare who has to guard Oberto/Elson/Random SA Scrub.

Amare spends more time defending Duncan than Duncan does on Amare. Wanna take a guess why TD doesn't man up Amare?

 

[cly2tw]

Because the Suns would have to trade Kurt Thomas and someone else (Marcus Banks) with Amare just to match KG's salary. So you have to factor in what the Suns would lose from them production wise seeing as how you would be forced to play KG 40+ minutes every night due to not having a back up big man.

That's typical of Matrix's concept of reality.

 

[SunsTzu]

Which is why SA fans are very happy with even the mere prospect that STAT goes elsewhere.

Mavs fans are laughing at the prospect, they all the sudden match up much better against the Suns when Amare isn't in the line-up.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Hi, Matrix,

KG for Amare is a lateral move at best, but could you explain to us how the Suns could overcome Bowen on Nash when you get your ass shut down by Parker all the time? Don't you realize that because of that Nash couldn't lead the team and unleash the "Suns" offense as we are used to that get you the bloated stats numbers? As a result, we had to rely on power moves by Amare to have chance to stay in the game with Spurs. And KG is not to provide the same power in the sure situation that Nash gets shut down because you get shut down by Parker!!

Trade Shawn Marion to Detroit for Rasheed Wallace.

 

[cly2tw]

Like I said before--

The whole key for the Suns would be for them to get KG without getting rid of STAT.

Nash/STAT/KG=many championships for the Suns.

Nash/Marion/KG=risk; would be lucky to have a core as good as the Suns currently have; IMHO would not be better than the current core.

Which is why SA fans are very happy with even the mere prospect that STAT goes elsewhere.

The true reason many Suns fans prefer the Amare for KG trade is that they have a passion for Marion and his stats.

 

[azirish]

Azirish, do you think it is more important to maximize our chances to win a championship in the next 2-3 years, or set a solid financial footing for the Suns' future without Steve Nash?

I believe the championship comes first, and I believe that KG+Nash offers significant overall improvements over Amare+Nash especially in defense and rebounding, while the offense holds level. Therefore trading Amare for KG is the correct move.

You really don't believe anything Sarver says do you?

His goal is to build a franchise that contend every year, not just a one shot wonder that will regess immediately to mediocrity. Obviously you think Amare + KT for KG this will substantially enhance the Suns chances this year while I think it would make for only a marginal improvement at best. Then, in two years the Suns will become another lottery team.

 

[Chaplin]

Trade Shawn Marion to Detroit for Rasheed Wallace.

Do you just pull these out of a hat? Hmmm, let's trade Marcus Banks for... um, James Posey.

Why would Detroit trade for Shawn Marion when they already have Tayshaun Prince??

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Where is this nonsense of KG being a better shooter than Amare come from? Is it just because he takes more?

Amare shot 43.6% on his jumper and was assisted on 59% of them.

KG shot 43.4% on his jumpers and was assisted on 61% of them.

True defender may give Amare more room to shoot but only because they fear an AND1 with a poster if they don't give him space.

The percentages are practically identical, but you have to look beyond the stats. KG can hit you with the face up jumper, he has more range, and he has a great turnaround jumper as well. Plus it's what he uses most of the time and can rely on it unlike Amare.

 

[Chaplin]

You really don't believe anything Sarver says do you?

His goal is to build a franchise that contend every year, not just a one shot wonder that will regess immediately to mediocrity. Obviously you think Amare + KT for KG this will substantially enhance the Suns chances this year while I think it would make for only a marginal improvement at best. Then, in two years the Suns will become another lottery team.

If it wins the championship next year, who cares? You don't hear Dback fans wanting to return the World Series title because of what it's done to the team now.

 

[Cheesebeef]

why won't my ambein kick in already!!!!!!!????? ugh!!!!!!!

 

[cly2tw]

Trade Shawn Marion to Detroit for Rasheed Wallace.

Right. And then we'd win without Amare/KT for KG, and imo even better so.

Amare/Rasheed/Diaw/Bell/Nash with KT/LB/JR is better than KG/Rasheed/Diaw/Bell/Nash with LB/JR.

 

[Greg Popovich]

I think the prospect of getting KG have led some Suns fans to perhaps under-value STAT's contribution to this team.

I guess I would have to state that as far as fans on other teams are concerned, the consensus seems to me that any move that rids the Suns of STAT--whether for KG, Kobe, Dirk--would be a huge sigh of relief.

Now if the Suns were able to gain Tim Duncan by shedding STAT--um--now that would be a horrifying thought.

And Tim is a free agent next summer.

Damn--better keep my mouth shut...