About Amare and Rebounding

[joshstmarie]

I'll be the first to say Amare has not been given proper training at rebounding. This past season Genrty seemed to actually put emphasis on things like defense and robounding that somehow escaped D'Antoni.

1. Poor Anticipation - Dennis Rodman would go to where he thought the ball was going when it was shot. This is not being taught.

2. Coaching - Bill Cartright is an OK coach, but his record was never one of a GREAT rebounder. His career was 6.3 rpg. His best year was with the Knicks when he averaged 8.4 rpg. He played with Harace Grant who avered just undr 9.9 rpg.

3. Size/Strength - Amare is 6'9" and has only average sized arms. Longer players can reach over him to grab balls. Sadly, the refs permit opponents to push him under the basket so rebounds tend to bounce over him. If this is the basis for deciding Amare is an awful player, that's fine but it does not say anything about his degree of effort.

4. Zone - One common problem with the zone is that it makes it harder to determine who to block out. The decision to play zone had to do with keeping guys out of the lane.

In any case, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. The opinion that Amare is just lazy is an opinion. I just don't agree.

Horace Grant, Bill Cartwright, the zone (which we played for 4 games out of the entire year) how many excuses does amare get before you call him a below AVERAGE rebounder? It is what it is.

 

[pokerface]

Irish,

For his size and position Amare is a poor rebounder. Just admit this and all is forgiven.

 

[Chaplin]

It must be pointed out that indirectly, when JRich and Grant Hill have good rebounding games, Amare is part of the reason for that. It's really easy to just say Amare stinks at rebounding, period.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It must be pointed out that indirectly, when JRich and Grant Hill have good rebounding games, Amare is part of the reason for that. It's really easy to just say Amare stinks at rebounding, period.

I'm sure he is partly responsible for team rebounds and those gathered in by other players. Still, every player in the league is surrounded by 4 other friendly players and he's not the only big to lose boards to teammates. But that really isn't the issue. When he's active, he rebounds well enough for his size and position. When he's passive he rebounds poorly for his size and position.

Steve

 

[Irish]

I don't think he's an awful player. As a matter of fact, I don't know anyone that thinks he's an awful player and that includes the small handful here that can't stand the guy.

My problem is that he frequently just stands around on defense and when it comes time to rebound. When things are going well offensively he is MUCH more active defensively than at other times and it's reflected in his rebound totals. To me, that says he's capable of being a much better player than he settles for. He's still a very good player but he has the potential to be one of the greats and all too often he settles for less.

Steve

I'd say the real problem is inconsistency. He'll have great games and then poor ones. Unfortunately, it is hard to tell which games are due to being inactive and which are due to other stuff.

One problem is that when the game plan is to have the bigs block out to let the wings do the rebounding. This can be even more of an issue when the Suns are successful at keeping guys out of the paint so they shoot from the outside and have long rebounds.

The defensive scheme also matters. When Amare has to front his man, it is hard to get back around to block his man out after the shot. If he is forced to guard his man on the wing, he is not in position to get the ball under the basket.

In any case, the Suns are rebounding better in past years. They had a differential on rebounds at +0.65 which was a rank of 14th. The Suns ranked 6th in rebounding at 43.0 but 21st in opponent's rebounding. If the second is a measure, then blocking out is a team wide failure.

 

[Chaplin]

I'm sure he is partly responsible for team rebounds and those gathered in by other players. Still, every player in the league is surrounded by 4 other friendly players and he's not the only big to lose boards to teammates. But that really isn't the issue. When he's active, he rebounds well enough for his size and position. When he's passive he rebounds poorly for his size and position.

Steve

I was simply pointing out that it's not a black and white issue. That's all.

 

[pokerface]

Historically Amare averages 9 boards a game for the regular season (for his career) which is alright BUT his 6.6 average for this playoffs really hurt his image as far as grabbing boards. Plus, the general consensus is Amare is capable of being a better rebounder than he is but doesnt doesnt perform due to a variety of reasons which leaves a bad taste in fans mouths as far as his rebounding goes. His up and down rebounding numbers doesnt help his case either. So if fans want to believe he is a bad rebounder he gives them just cause to think that....whether its completely true or not is another story.

 

[jibikao]

I don't agree with the lazy explanation or the Amare needs a good box out guy explanation. I still maintain a 3rd option. Amare is an unfocused, low IQ basketball player. That's why different facets of his game disappear from time to time. Amare gets one tracked for long stretches and doesn't seem to have the ability to adjust or focus at times during games.

I have always maintained Amare is not the sharpest tool in the tool shed on the court. Amare doesn't have natural instincts when it comes to rebounding and has to concentrate or focus to get it done.

This I can agree with. I think the problem is not that Amare can't rebound. The problem is Amare can lose focus/interest in rebounding/boxing out when his offense isn't hot. I won't expect 10+ rebounds but his average of 5 something rebounds against Lakers is just way too little.

 

[cly2tw]

Historically Amare averages 9 boards a game for the regular season (for his career) which is alright BUT his 6.6 average for this playoffs really hurt his image as far as grabbing boards. Plus, the general consensus is Amare is capable of being a better rebounder than he is but doesnt doesnt perform due to a variety of reasons which leaves a bad taste in fans mouths as far as his rebounding goes. His up and down rebounding numbers doesnt help his case either. So if fans want to believe he is a bad rebounder he gives them just cause to think that....whether its completely true or not is another story.

Historically, his playoff rebounding average was higher than his regular season numbers. This post season is an outlier.

 

[jibikao]

I'll be the first to say Amare has not been given proper training at rebounding. This past season Genrty seemed to actually put emphasis on things like defense and robounding that somehow escaped D'Antoni.

1. Poor Anticipation - Dennis Rodman would go to where he thought the ball was going when it was shot. This is not being taught.

2. Coaching - Bill Cartright is an OK coach, but his record was never one of a GREAT rebounder. His career was 6.3 rpg. His best year was with the Knicks when he averaged 8.4 rpg. He played with Harace Grant who avered just undr 9.9 rpg.

3. Size/Strength - Amare is 6'9" and has only average sized arms. Longer players can reach over him to grab balls. Sadly, the refs permit opponents to push him under the basket so rebounds tend to bounce over him. If this is the basis for deciding Amare is an awful player, that's fine but it does not say anything about his degree of effort.

4. Zone - One common problem with the zone is that it makes it harder to determine who to block out. The decision to play zone had to do with keeping guys out of the lane.

In any case, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. The opinion that Amare is just lazy is an opinion. I just don't agree.

I think rebounding is 50% effort, 30% skill (instinct like where the ball would go) and 20% luck (ball just won't go to your way). Marion is a very good example. He has a very quick first jump and he would go for it before the other "bigs" react. That's how he got his rebounds. Amare in this regard, is very very poor. Amare doesn't seem to have that kind of quickness and instinct. This means our Center needs to be like Luc Lonely who was mainly there to box out guys for Rodman to grab rebounds. Lopez can definitely act like that.