Accountability Office: Patrick Peterson Punted for Producing Poorly?

[kerouac9]

Adrian Wilson's reduced role? Accountability.
Early Doucet seated for Michael Floyd? Accountability.
John Skelton benched for Ryan Lindley? Accountability.
Michael Floyd benched for Early Doucet? Accountability.
Todd Heap released? Accountability.
Darnell Dockett's fine and reduced role? Accountability.
Ryan Lindley benched for John Skeltong? Accountability.

Patrick Peterson's multiple fumbled and muffed punts?

??

???

????

 

[Shane]

still better than Roberts. Still a threat even though he hasn't returned one.

I would keep him back there too.

 

[WildBB]

still better than Roberts. Still a threat even though he hasn't returned one.

I would keep him back there too.

He was the Pro-Bowl STer last season. He gets a get out of jail free card...only this yr. though.

 

[kerouac9]

still better than Roberts. Still a threat even though he hasn't returned one.

I would keep him back there too.

But if we're not trying to win games, then isn't the point that everyone's accountable for mental errors and mistakes?

I'd probably keep Peterson back there, too, because it's exciting for me as a fan, and it might be our greatest chance at scoring. But if the coaching staff is trying to enforce discipline and accountability, shouldn't that go across the board?

 

[Shane]

But if we're not trying to win games, then isn't the point that everyone's accountable for mental errors and mistakes?

I'd probably keep Peterson back there, too, because it's exciting for me as a fan, and it might be our greatest chance at scoring. But if the coaching staff is trying to enforce discipline and accountability, shouldn't that go across the board?

Sure. If you had some kind of better option. We all know that PP has the capability to be as reliable back there as any. Did it as a rookie. I would say its a case of him pressing too much. I believe he will snap out. Personally anyway.

 

[Mulli]

PP should just say he has been injured. AW has been given a pass for years with the injured excuse.

 

[kerouac9]

Sure. If you had some kind of better option. We all know that PP has the capability to be as reliable back there as any. Did it as a rookie. I would say its a case of him pressing too much. I believe he will snap out. Personally anyway.

Lindley is a better option than Skelton?
David Carter is a better option than Dockett?
Rashard Johnson is a better option than Adrian Wilson?

Really? I know that you're a habitual apologist for the coaching staff, but even you must be having a hard time managing your own cognitive dissonance here.

 

[BigRedRage]

He has been frustrating but If anything I would let roberts do it for one game to get the point across and go back to PP

also, we havent seen who is doing punts this week so rush to judgement.

 

[Mulli]

Lindley is a better option than Skelton?
David Carter is a better option than Dockett?
Rashard Johnson is a better option than Adrian Wilson?

Really? I know that you're a habitual apologist for the coaching staff, but even you must be having a hard time managing your own cognitive dissonance here.

I dunno. Shane is the guy who wanted me to prove that Kolb, Skelton and Lindley were not the best QB's available...

 

[Shane]

Lindley is a better option than Skelton?
David Carter is a better option than Dockett?
Rashard Johnson is a better option than Adrian Wilson?

Really? I know that you're a habitual apologist for the coaching staff, but even you must be having a hard time managing your own cognitive dissonance here.

Lindley IMO is fine. AS COMPARED TO SKELTON! I could care less if we ever see Skelton again.

David Carter was just temporary discipline and not a full time thing. DD isnt on the bench any longer. IIRC.

Actually yes I have ZERO issue with Rashad Johnson getting more PT.. A-dub is on a downhill train and Johnson has been fine.

 

[Shane]

I dunno. Shane is the guy who wanted me to prove that Kolb, Skelton and Lindley were not the best QB's available...

Wrong.

I said prove who was available that we could have gotten that you know would have been better.

 

[kerouac9]

He has been frustrating but If anything I would let roberts do it for one game to get the point across and go back to PP

also, we havent seen who is doing punts this week so rush to judgement.

That's what I would expect. Or at least sit him for one punt to begin the game to remind him that fumbling is not acceptable and remind the rest of the roster that no one escapes accountability for mental errors.

 

[Mulli]

Wrong.

I said prove who was available that we could have gotten that you know would have been better.

 

[Russ Smith]

Didn't he get pulled 2-3 weeks ago in a game or was that when he had the tweaked hammy?


He has dropped too many this year I think they're just operating under the assumption it's more likely he scores on a punt return than we score on offense again but I'd be just fine with them putting someone else back there now and then too.

But Roberts is hurt so I'm not sure who that would be.

 

[52brandon]

But if we're not trying to win games, then isn't the point that everyone's accountable for mental errors and mistakes?

I'd probably keep Peterson back there, too, because it's exciting for me as a fan, and it might be our greatest chance at scoring. But if the coaching staff is trying to enforce discipline and accountability, shouldn't that go across the board?

it's also our greatest chance at avoiding a blackout for the first time in UofP Stadium. He's just exciting every time the ball gets kicked his way, even this year when he hasn't scored, he still has the capability each and every time

 

[thephoenixson28]

Sophomore slump

 

[Russ Smith]

Sophomore slump

I'm going to keep saying it, Peterson is a result of the other problems not a cause. He is trying to make big plays because the offense is so bad.

So he's trying to run before he catches the punt, he's catching punts he should catch etc.

PP's not being kicked too they're intentionally kicking away from him or hanging them high and short. they're doing everything they can to keep him from busting one, he's getting frustrated because the team can't score, so he's taking chances and screwing up.

If the offense was better, he'd be doing that less. And honestly if the offense was better he'd get more chances to return a punt because teams would actually worry about punting to us. Right now they don't, they know we're not going to score so they're willing to directional punt even if it costs them a few yards.

PP is the least of our problems IMO.

 

[JeffGollin]

I'm going to keep saying it, Peterson is a result of the other problems not a cause. He is trying to make big plays because the offense is so bad.

So he's trying to run before he catches the punt, he's catching punts he should catch etc.

PP's not being kicked to, they're intentionally kicking away from him or hanging them high and short. they're doing everything they can to keep him from busting one, he's getting frustrated because the team can't score, so he's taking chances and screwing up.

If the offense was better, he'd be doing that less. And honestly if the offense was better he'd get more chances to return a punt because teams would actually worry about punting to us. Right now they don't, they know we're not going to score so they're willing to directional punt even if it costs them a few yards.

PP is the least of our problems IMO.

Agree that PP21 is overtrying to make things happen that might flip a game.

At the same time, you cannot let that sort of stuff go unaddressed.

Challenge for the coaches is to turn this into the proverbial teaching moment where they make clear to Patrick that, while they admire his spunk and don't want to kill his willingness to take risks, if he's going to go balls to the wall, he's got to be super-paranoid about protecting the football. That's what pros do.

I'm guessing that Patrick has the right attitude and, if the situation is handled properly, will learn from his mistakes.

 

[kerouac9]

I'm going to keep saying it, Peterson is a result of the other problems not a cause. He is trying to make big plays because the offense is so bad.

So he's trying to run before he catches the punt, he's catching punts he should catch etc.

PP's not being kicked too they're intentionally kicking away from him or hanging them high and short. they're doing everything they can to keep him from busting one, he's getting frustrated because the team can't score, so he's taking chances and screwing up.

If the offense was better, he'd be doing that less. And honestly if the offense was better he'd get more chances to return a punt because teams would actually worry about punting to us. Right now they don't, they know we're not going to score so they're willing to directional punt even if it costs them a few yards.

PP is the least of our problems IMO.

It's pretty difficult to state this as a fact without any evidence. I asked Aaron Schatz at football outsiders if this could be quantified, and all they can do is make some guesses about punt length versus average and shove that into "hidden points", but that's a conglomeration of a number of statistical anomalies.

What I can say is that the Cards are 3rd in the NFL in average drive start (30.11 yard line). That's pretty good. Unfortunately, we are the only team in the NFL who punt on more than half of our drives, and we're dead last in drive success rate (% of down series that result in a first down or a touchdown).

 

[kerouac9]

Lindley IMO is fine. AS COMPARED TO SKELTON! I could care less if we ever see Skelton again.

David Carter was just temporary discipline and not a full time thing. DD isnt on the bench any longer. IIRC.

Actually yes I have ZERO issue with Rashad Johnson getting more PT.. A-dub is on a downhill train and Johnson has been fine.

So... Just so I'm clear about what you're saying... It's okay to temporarily bench and fine Dockett for not giving up on a play or two, but it's not okay at all to do the same thing with Patrick Peterson, who has the 20th-lowest PR average in the NFL and 6 fumbles, and lost two of them last week.

Good on ya, buddy.

EDIT: Another way of putting it: throwing an INT on one out of 22 passing attempts, and you don't have to see that guy ever again--put in the rookie who's clearly worse and not getting better.

But fumble on one in six punts? Keep up the good work, Pat.

 

[52brandon]

I'm guessing that Patrick has the right attitude and, if the situation is handled properly, will learn from his mistakes.

that was a big thing every one of his coaches have said. He has a great attitude and is always trying to learn how to make himself better. A fantastic quality such a talented young player

 

[kerouac9]

I'm going to keep saying it, Peterson is a result of the other problems not a cause. He is trying to make big plays because the offense is so bad.

So he's trying to run before he catches the punt, he's catching punts he should catch etc.

PP's not being kicked too they're intentionally kicking away from him or hanging them high and short. they're doing everything they can to keep him from busting one, he's getting frustrated because the team can't score, so he's taking chances and screwing up.

If the offense was better, he'd be doing that less. And honestly if the offense was better he'd get more chances to return a punt because teams would actually worry about punting to us. Right now they don't, they know we're not going to score so they're willing to directional punt even if it costs them a few yards.

PP is the least of our problems IMO.

So, I heard back from Schatz. Here's what he had to say. I bolded the parts that I found the most interesting.

First of all, you have to understand how inconsistent punt/kick return
touchdowns are from year to year. Remember when people thought Dante
Hall was an MVP candidate? That lasted a year and a half. For Peterson
to fall off isn't a huge shock, although he's fallen a lot more than I
would have expected.

Are teams avoiding him? On first glance, this seems to be the case.
Arizona is second in the league when you look at their opponents'
gross punt value (-5.4 points). However, there are two interesting
notes here: One goes against the idea of people kicking short to
Peterson, and the other says they've stopped doing it.

The team leading the league in opponent's gross punt value is Tampa
Bay. How scared are you of Roscoe Parrish? Yeah, that's right, not
very. Third is SD, another team not known for great punt returns. But
4th is Chicago, so maybe there is something to this idea.

Then I split things up between Weeks 1-7 and Weeks 8-14. In Weeks 1-7,
opponent gross punt value against Arizona is -6.5 points. In Weeks
8-14, it is 1.1 points. In other words, if this truly is caused by
opponents trying to prevent strong returns by Peterson, they clearly
stopped trying sometime around midseason when it was clear Peterson
wasn't having the kind of year he was last year. Partly, that's
probably natural variation in Peterson's performance. He's not really
as good as he looked last year, not really as bad as he looks this
year. It's also possibly related to changes on the coverage team for
Arizona. Maybe the guys on the bottom of this year's roster don't
block as well as the guys on the bottom of last year's roster.

Whatever the issue, it just isn't happening for the guy this year.
Peterson already has six fumbles: four muffs and two outright fumbles
after he actually began a return. His longest return is 26 yards, and
he has three returns that actually lost yardage.

 

[Cheesebeef]

SIX fumbles?! Wow... that's pretty horrific.

 

[kerouac9]

SIX fumbles?! Wow... that's pretty horrific.

Don't worry. Shane says that he doesn't need to be held accountable for that, or for pressing. Or for teams no longer being concerned that he's going to hurt them.

 

[Cardiac]

Comparing Apples to Oranges.

PP has that rare need to be the best ever. Fitz has it, so does Ray Lewis, Tom Brady and Jerry Rice. They are simply wired that way and it's at a different level then a majority of NFL players. So yes he is pressing and yes it's leading to some bad decisions and mistakes with ball security.

Thing is last year the riskier decisions paid off for him/us and this year they have gone the other way. There is also a difference between pushing the envelope and simply not producing or following the coaches instructions.

DD was the last to buy into Horton's system and once he did the D starting playing at a much higher level. DD has to be told not to tweet crazy stuff and post videos of himself in the shower. DD has a history of not always following the rules or refusing to play within the scheme. IMWO it's why Horton lowered the boom with the 200k fine recently.

PP when asked to jump asks how high. When the same is asked of DD he has to stop tweeting and ask the coach to repeat himself because he wasn't paying attention. So who HAS to be held more accountable?

K9, you list a bunch of examples of players being held accountable and ONE example of them not doing so in your opinion. Is it possible that your perception on this topic is incorrect?

When Eli has one of his TO streaks does he get benched?

Picking Nits at this point. Trying to pick fly crap out of pepper?