Additional Thoughts

[Mitch]

1. Props to Chike Okeafor...for playing at the level that we all thought he was capable of. His play this post-season has been inspired.

2. Props to Tim Hightower for displaying the burst and toughness and nose for the endzone that gets a team over the hump.

3. Props to Neil Rackers for nailing that 49 yarder. That was big and clutch.

4. These are my last comments on Q-gate:

(a) I surely hope that while Whiz diffused the controversy in the media, that Whiz had Haley's back and talked man-to-man to Q yesterday and told him that calling his coach a name in the heat of battle is inexcusable and totally unacceptable. If Whiz lets this slide, he's making a huge mistake. Q has been at odds with Whiz, but Whiz owes it to the team to put Q in his place. And this type of heated arguments should be eliminated.

(b) Fitzie's dominant performance this off-season could actually help Q get what he wants contract-wise with another team...seeing as the NFL is a copycat league and now that everyone has been seeing how a dominant WR can win big-time ballgames. However, what Q may not realize is that most teams so not have a warm and fuzzy feeling for Drew Rosenhaus and whatever grandiose contract plans he has for his new homie, Q. This is why, Q and Rosenhaus may be asked after the season to find trading partners and the right kind of deal. That should be interesting.

(c) As much as I was sure the Cardinals would bring Q back and show him the money, because of Steve Breaston's excellence and because the team went 6-1 without Q, and because of Q's injury issues, and now his selfish and petulant actions, the team likely needs to accomodate his wish to leave.

(d) Q will be highly motivated to play well in the Super Bowl, as, like Edge, he likely sees this as the best possible audition for jobs next year.

(e) As much as we might like to think that Q came back from his facial fractures two weeks later to help the team, it may be more accurate to realize that Q knew what coming back would do for his own image around the league and his Pro Bowl chances. He played it right, that's for sure. Although, his play after the first two weeks back was uncharacteristically subpar, riddled by drops, penalties and fumbles, save his performance after a two week layoff versus Atlanta.

5. The WR/DB matchups for the Steelers: DRC on Holmes, Hood on Ward, and (this is a gut feeling) Rolle on TE Miller (which may be the most critical matchup, especially seeing as the Steelers will see that Brent Celek lit up the Cardinals for 10 catches and 2 TDs. Miller is a superior player to Celek, so the Cardinals have their hands full there).

6. With reports that Todd Haley may be the next head coach at KC...as long as Kurt Warner returns, the offense should be all systems go no matter who the new OC is, because Warner has as much input of the offense as anyone. If the new OC falters at all next year, don't be surprised if Whiz takes over the playcalling duties. This is why it's a luxury to have a Super Bowl Winning OC as the head coach.

7. Worried about the draft now that the Cardinals are picking 31st or 32nd? Don't be surprised if the Cardinals wind up with two more 1st round picks in this year's draft if they decide to trade Boldin and Leinart. The Leinart trade is looking more and more auspicious seeing as this is being viewed as a weak QB draft and several teams have glaring QB needs.

8. I truly believe that Kurt Warner, regardless of whether the Cardinals win or lose the Super Bowl, will be signed to a two year contract. Warner is having a blast in this offense...you can just tell how much he relishes the talent around him and the coaching staff. Plus, he will want to do all he can to get out of the house and away from the new puppy!

 

[D-Dogg]

Leinart is NOT getting traded. No way, no how.

 

[Mitch]

Leinart is NOT getting traded. No way, no how.

If Warner is re-signed the team really has no choice to trade Leinart due to his $15M bonus due in 2010. You don't pay $15M to a QB who is holding a clipboard.

 

[Ryanwb]

Leinart is NOT getting traded. No way, no how.

you are correct sir

 

[Ryanwb]

If Warner is re-signed the team really has no choice to trade Leinart due to his $15M bonus due in 2010. You don't pay $15M to a QB who is holding a clipboard.

no, you make him the QB of the future, restructure his contract and turn that money into a signing bonus

 

[justAndy]

If Warner is re-signed the team really has no choice to trade Leinart due to his $15M bonus due in 2010. You don't pay $15M to a QB who is holding a clipboard.

Keep him for 2009, cut him before the bonus comes due.
Rough, but it's the NFL way.
Same thing w/ Q - he has NO real leverage - he sits out a year, Cardinals STILL have his rights for the next 2.
Rough, but it's teh NFL way.

 

[Mitch]

Keep him for 2009, cut him before the bonus comes due.
Rough, but it's the NFL way.
Same thing w/ Q - he has NO real leverage - he sits out a year, Cardinals STILL have his rights for the next 2.
Rough, but it's teh NFL way.

Why, Andy? Why cut him and get nothing in return? Leinart has big trade value right now because he was stuck behind a Pro Bowler and he's young, but already has some experience. A QB hungry team would have to look at Leinart and say, hey this could be our guy.

 

[LVG]

Here's a question Mitch - is it possible that the reason that Breaston is having such a good year is that he's playing 3rd to Fitz & Boldin? Reason being - if you have to defend a threat, you defend Fitz 1st, Boldin 2nd (feel free to swap those two), and Breaston 3rd - if we lose Q, then the emphasis would be on Breaston, and then wouldn't we see his numbers decline?

Who would you then move into the #3 role?

Do you try a "offense in a box" package with Edge, Leinart, and Q for a trade?

 

[DoTheDew]

If Warner is re-signed the team really has no choice to trade Leinart due to his $15M bonus due in 2010. You don't pay $15M to a QB who is holding a clipboard.

Because it is due in 2010, you wait until the 2010 offseason to consider trading him. Here is a scenario for you Mitch. Warner comes back next year, gets hurt and decides to retire. We already traded Leinart when we had no reason to. Now where does that leave us?

They can wait another year on Leinart his value shouldn't change much unless he is forced to play next year. I don't see the logic in saying we have to trade him this year when that escalator is due in 2 seasons. Also like you said it is a weak QB draft, and as a result you don't trade your young QB at this point. Next year if you have a shot at a Tebow, McCoy or someone else it makes much more sense. Your logic on this whole topic is severely flawed.

 

[Zeno]

Leinart is NOT getting traded. No way, no how.

If we trade him this team WILL regret it. I'd like to think the front office is smarter than that.

Leinart is going to be a good pro, we can't trade him and then hope we find another QBOTF when Warner is done. We waited almost 20 yrs from when Lomax got hurt until we got a legitimate QB--we can't afford that fruitless search again.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If Warner is re-signed the team really has no choice to trade Leinart due to his $15M bonus due in 2010. You don't pay $15M to a QB who is holding a clipboard.

you're correct, you restructure that deal by tacking on years. right now if leinart was released he would no doubt be signed by some team, but not for huge dollars. he's still seen as mostly unproven and his "antics" in the past don't make him a sure thing. thus, it's in his best interest to restructure and get more money over a longer contract. also, he KNOWS that warner can't have more than a year or two left after this at which point he gets to take over a GOOD team. as long as he can remain patient and doesn't get bad advise, i fully expect leinart to remain even with warner being resigned.

 

[conraddobler]

If Warner is re-signed the team really has no choice to trade Leinart due to his $15M bonus due in 2010. You don't pay $15M to a QB who is holding a clipboard.

What makes me think you're right is that Whiz isn't built like a guy who'd pick Matt as the QB.

I honestly think that Whis and Matt are too fundamentally different to ever coexist as coach and starting QB, Matt just isn't what Whis would pick IMO.

I personally think that whole line of thinking on Warner is wrong but no one can argue with his success here this year.

Like it or not Whis will want to get a QB he's happy with and I've never felt he'd ever get to that point with Matt.

 

[82CardsGrad]

no, you make him the QB of the future, restructure his contract and turn that money into a signing bonus

Why, Andy? Why cut him and get nothing in return? Leinart has big trade value right now because he was stuck behind a Pro Bowler and he's young, but already has some experience. A QB hungry team would have to look at Leinart and say, hey this could be our guy.

Mitch, see the Ryan's note above...

 

[conraddobler]

you're correct, you restructure that deal by tacking on years. right now if leinart was released he would no doubt be signed by some team, but not for huge dollars. he's still seen as mostly unproven and his "antics" in the past don't make him a sure thing. thus, it's in his best interest to restructure and get more money over a longer contract. also, he KNOWS that warner can't have more than a year or two left after this at which point he gets to take over a GOOD team. as long as he can remain patient and doesn't get bad advise, i fully expect leinart to remain even with warner being resigned.

That's what you'd do if Whis wanted to keep him.

I don't think he does.

Whis isn't built like a guy who tolerates parts of Matt's personallity, if it was me I'd take Matt in a heartbeat because I think you can see that someday he'll do very good things in the NFL and he has things IMO that could make him a wonderfull team leader, just not yet.

I can't really argue much with whatever Whis wants to do even though I myself wouldn't do it, just watching Whis and Matt I doubt that Matt stays.

 

[slanidrac16]

If Warner is re-signed the team really has no choice to trade Leinart due to his $15M bonus due in 2010. You don't pay $15M to a QB who is holding a clipboard.

Trading Leinart could be a move that would haunt this team for years to come. Unless the Cards have a solid plan to replace Leinart with,
a competent back up(Derek Anderson, Byron Leftwich?) should Warner get hurt, AND have a plan to use 1 of those #1 picks to grab another QB in a year where there is no Flacco or Ryan available.
Please do bring up St. Pierre.

 

[Mitch]

Whiz is already on record as saying he wants Warner back. And why wouldn't he?

I'd be willing to bet all of you that Whiz not only will beg Warner to return, he will also make a huge effort to re-sign Brian St. Pierre as the #2.

Leinart has the biggest trade value right now.

If Warner returns, trading Leinart makes the most sense...and then they will draft a young QB to groom for the next two years behind Warner and St. Pierre.

Ask yourself this...if assuming Warner returns, would you trade Leinart for Rey Maulaga or Knowshon Moreno? That's what the Cardinals could get for Leinart this year.

You go ahead and do it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ask yourself this...if assuming Warner returns, would you trade Leinart for Rey Maulaga or Knowshon Moreno? That's what the Cardinals could get for Leinart this year.

You go ahead and do it.

i asked myself and my answer is "no." if leinart can be a franchise qb i don't trade him for a question mark runningback or middle linebacker. sorry, no way.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Whiz is already on record as saying he wants Warner back. And why wouldn't he?

I'd be willing to bet all of you that Whiz not only will beg Warner to return, he will also make a huge effort to re-sign Brian St. Pierre as the #2.

Leinart has the biggest trade value right now.

If Warner returns, trading Leinart makes the most sense...and then they will draft a young QB to groom for the next two years behind Warner and St. Pierre.

Ask yourself this...if assuming Warner returns, would you trade Leinart for Rey Maulaga or Knowshon Moreno? That's what the Cardinals could get for Leinart this year.

You go ahead and do it.

Mitch, my feelings toward Matty are well documented... HOWEVER, even I wouldn't make a trade and certainly not for a much overrated Moreno!!
As much as I feel Leinart will not develop into half of what he was supposed to be, I think we need to give him his shot in a Cards uniform first... St. Pierre as a #2 freaks me out even more...

 

[Shogun]

If Warner is re-signed the team really has no choice to trade Leinart due to his $15M bonus due in 2010. You don't pay $15M to a QB who is holding a clipboard.

Why wouldn't they just restructure his deal.....?

And Moreno is not overrated.

 

[Cards232]

Actually, I kind of agree w/ Mitch here. Let me preface by saying I'm a big Leinart fan & a major USC homer for 4 decades. That being said, There is a dearth this year of quality qb's. Unless a team has an all world defense, you can't make it in this league w/o a quality qb. Leinart is not only a quality qb but he has learned from 2 top notch systems now which would be very attractive this coming year w/ so little to choose from in the draft. There should be a lot more to choose from the following year.

Some here may scoff, but St. Pierre reminds me a lot of a young Bulger. He looked very good in the pre-season & remember, he's been tutored by Warner as well. Now, I wouldn't trade Leinart for anything but known commodities either in the draft or a veteran. Leinart for Suggs? or something along those lines. Sounds crazy, but those deals happen.

As far as the comment that Breaston hasn't faced the same coverage as Boldin, being that he's the 3rd receiver, remember, Breaston's had his best games while replacing Boldin as the #2. I think he'll be quite fine & frankly, Breaston gets better separation than Boldin & is much more of a deep threat to create better spacing down field.

Bottom line, if we can shore up the o-line, get a stud or 2 on defense, & perhaps get a quality mid round running back w/ speed, trading Boldin & Leinart, MAY make some sense. If they are the RIGHT trades, this is do-able. Certainly worth exploring. It really will come down to how comfortable Whis. would be w/ St. Pierre. I would trust his judgement.

 

[slanidrac16]

Actually, I kind of agree w/ Mitch here. Let me preface by saying I'm a big Leinart fan & a major USC homer for 4 decades. That being said, There is a dearth this year of quality qb's. Unless a team has an all world defense, you can't make it in this league w/o a quality qb. Leinart is not only a quality qb but he has learned from 2 top notch systems now which would be very attractive this coming year w/ so little to choose from in the draft. There should be a lot more to choose from the following year.

Some here may scoff, but St. Pierre reminds me a lot of a young Bulger. He looked very good in the pre-season & remember, he's been tutored by Warner as well. Now, I wouldn't trade Leinart for anything but known commodities either in the draft or a veteran. Leinart for Suggs? or something along those lines. Sounds crazy, but those deals happen.

As far as the comment that Breaston hasn't faced the same coverage as Boldin, being that he's the 3rd receiver, remember, Breaston's had his best games while replacing Boldin as the #2. I think he'll be quite fine & frankly, Breaston gets better separation than Boldin & is much more of a deep threat to create better spacing down field.

Bottom line, if we can shore up the o-line, get a stud or 2 on defense, & perhaps get a quality mid round running back w/ speed, trading Boldin & Leinart, MAY make some sense. If they are the RIGHT trades, this is do-able. Certainly worth exploring. It really will come down to how comfortable Whis. would be w/ St. Pierre. I would trust his judgement.

The only reason Leinart is not the starter is two-fold. One is Whiz thought we were in a position to win this year (he was right!). I think Whiz felt more comfortable going with experience over potential and didn't want us to come out of the gate slow. The second is Warner worked on his game to do the little things the coaches needed from him to improve. The old dog learned a few new tricks. It has made him a better QB and he went on to have a career year.
Had the bad Warner showed up in week 1 and 2 Leinart probably would have been reinserted as the starter.

So, WHY do we have to trade Leinart? Because he is due a bonus in 2010? It's an uncapped year at this point so cap implications won't be a consideration. Contracts can always be redone.

I can't agree with trading Leinart without some concrete plan to not only replace Warner in case of injury , but I also want to know what the long term solution is when Warner does hang em up.
I do know that if Warner did get injured early in the year, I would feel way more comfortable with a guy that has a firm grip of our playbook and system than ANYBODY who may be available to us. There is a reason St. Pierre is a 5 year 3rd string QB. He may very well be capable of doing the job, but I'd hate to be on our way to another playoff birth and have to find that out.

 

[Ryanwb]

Whiz is already on record as saying he wants Warner back. And why wouldn't he?

Do you expect him to say he doesn't want Warner back? Come on...

 

[Shogun]

Actually, I kind of agree w/ Mitch here. Let me preface by saying I'm a big Leinart fan & a major USC homer for 4 decades. That being said, There is a dearth this year of quality qb's. Unless a team has an all world defense, you can't make it in this league w/o a quality qb. Leinart is not only a quality qb but he has learned from 2 top notch systems now which would be very attractive this coming year w/ so little to choose from in the draft. There should be a lot more to choose from the following year.

Some here may scoff, but St. Pierre reminds me a lot of a young Bulger. He looked very good in the pre-season & remember, he's been tutored by Warner as well. Now, I wouldn't trade Leinart for anything but known commodities either in the draft or a veteran. Leinart for Suggs? or something along those lines. Sounds crazy, but those deals happen.

As far as the comment that Breaston hasn't faced the same coverage as Boldin, being that he's the 3rd receiver, remember, Breaston's had his best games while replacing Boldin as the #2. I think he'll be quite fine & frankly, Breaston gets better separation than Boldin & is much more of a deep threat to create better spacing down field.

Bottom line, if we can shore up the o-line, get a stud or 2 on defense, & perhaps get a quality mid round running back w/ speed, trading Boldin & Leinart, MAY make some sense. If they are the RIGHT trades, this is do-able. Certainly worth exploring. It really will come down to how comfortable Whis. would be w/ St. Pierre. I would trust his judgement.

Why would we trade Leinart for Suggs? So he can be a backup on another team? Flacco has established his place at the helm in B-More. Because Leinart hasn't seen the field we don't even know how good he is or his market worth. And before anyone starts, no, this is not comparable to the Matt Schaub situation.

St. Pierre is only there because he knows the system. Nothing more. His game is on par with the "great" Shane Boyd. Awful. We might as well throw Boldin in at QB if Warner goes down.

 

[Ryanwb]

Isn't Suggs a free agent?

 

[Brewster10]

Someone mentioned that Breaston may only be as effective as he's been because of Boldin taking pressure off him...

Im pretty sure Breaston's best games have come when Boldin has been out, so that theory goes down the drain..

I have no issue trading Boldin.. i expect us to add a TE threat and get a much better RB in the near future... so upgrading those positions will definately make up for Q's production..

I have alot of faith that Breaston and Doucet will make fine #2 and #3 wideouts.. with Urban filling in as a solid guy in four wideout sets.. add a true TE or one of those flex guys like Travis Beckum... get a back to go with Hightower.. and our offense will still be great

Im torn on Leinart.. i suppose if you believe that St. Pierre has just as good of a shot to be a starting QB as Leinart does then sure make the move.. but i would hate to lose Warner in a yr or two and have nobody to take over