Admisssion From A Jealous Mavs Fan

[island_dude]

After my team went down in possibly the most embarrassing upset in NBA playoff history I have to finally admit something. Cuban screwed up by letting Nash walk.

I realize this isn't something I have to convince you Suns faithful of, but as a hardcore Mavs fan I've been in denial since that day Nash went back to Phoenix.

I was one of those who kept saying he was gonna break down physically, or that he was too big of a liability on defense. Well, I couldn't have been more wrong!

Now the Mavs organization is having to regroup after a 67 win season, but being ousted in the first round by #8 seed Golden State. One of the biggest reasons is no point guard. The Harris/Jet combo is a failure in my opinion, and now we're looking at possibly one of the greatest point guards to play the game taking the Suns into the next round, and a possible championship.

I don't know if Nash would've had the same success had he stayed in Dallas. His supporting cast in Phoenix is tailor made for the skills he possses, with slashers and finishers at the rim. The Mavs just don't possess those type players, but there's no doubt he'd still be successful and a huge upgrade over what they have now.

I'll admit I've disliked the Suns since Nash has been there, but it really isn't about dislike of Nash himself or even the Suns organization. I've finally come to grips with the fact that it's been just plain ole jealousy. Yeah, I'm pissed off that one of the great point guards to ever play the game use to play for my favorite and they let him walk away. Now I hope he finally gets a ring to prove what a stupid mistake that was.

 

[dodie53]

imo, if nash was still a mav, they could have won a ring by now..

 

[joshstmarie]

After my team went down in possibly the most embarrassing upset in NBA playoff history I have to finally admit something. Cuban screwed up by letting Nash walk.

I realize this isn't something I have to convince you Suns faithful of, but as a hardcore Mavs fan I've been in denial since that day Nash went back to Phoenix.

I was one of those who kept saying he was gonna break down physically, or that he was too big of liability on defense. Well, I couldn't have been more wrong!

Now the Mavs organization is having to regroup after 67 win season, but being ousted by the first round by #8 seed Golden State. One of the biggest reasons is no point guard. The Harris/Jet combo is a failure in my opinion, and now we're looking at possibly the greatest point guard to play the game taking the Suns into the next round.

I don't know if Nash would've had the same success had he stayed in Dallas. His supporting cast in Phoenix is tailor made for the skills he possses, with slashers and finishers at the rim. The Mavs just don't possess those type players, but there's know doubt he'd still be successful and a huge upgrade over what they have now.

I'll admit I've disliked the Suns since Nash has been there, but it really isn't about dislike of Nash himself or even the Suns organization. I've finally come to grips with the fact that it's been just plain ole jealousy. Yeah, I'm pissed off that one of the great point guards to ever play the game use to play for my favorite and they let him walk away. Now I hope he finally gets a ring to prove what a stupid mistake that was.

not to pour salt in the ole wounds but i thank God everyday steve nash plays for the suns. cuban will take that one to the grave.

 

[tobiazz]

I was one of those who kept saying he was gonna break down physically, or that he was too big of a liability on defense. Well, I couldn't have been more wrong!

If it makes you feel better, many posters here were wondering why the Suns would trade Marbury to free up cap space and then sign Nash. I won't name names

 

[island_dude]

No doubt Cuban messed up on Nash, and to make matters worse he gets ousted by his old nemisis Nellie in round one.

 

[elindholm]

If it makes you feel better, many posters here were wondering why the Suns would trade Marbury to free up cap space and then sign Nash. I won't name names

I'll admit I was one of those, even though I was never a big Marbury fan. What mystified me at the time -- and probably always will -- was how the Suns could sign Marbury to an enormous extension and then, almost immediately afterward, decide that he was a financial liability. That was a horrific blunder, and they are extremely fortunate that Isiah Thomas, Cuban, and Nash all conspired to bail them out.

 

[JS22]

If it makes you feel better, many posters here were wondering why the Suns would trade Marbury to free up cap space and then sign Nash. I won't name names

I was one!

 

[Gaddabout]

You seem like someone I can reason with, so I'd like to share some observations I've made while lurking (and sometimes posting) @ dallas-mavs.com.

If that group over there is any inclination of group-wide thought, it seems like the Mavs fans have so bought into the identity of defense, they've decided to hate the Suns because the Suns somehow represent all the things they've come to hate about the Nelson-era Mavs. Of course, I disagree with this perception. I think we can agree the Suns a good deal more athletic and they score a lot more in the paint than the old Mavs did. But, the Suns are still driven by their offense, so I at least understand their general point.

Anyway, it just seems like eventually common basketball logic would eventually hit a group fans in the head and they'd come to realize you have to be able to score in multiple ways, just as you have to be able to defend any lineup that's thrown at you. The old, old Pistons, the ones that invented nasty basketball, still had Isaiah, Joe Dumars, and The Microwave off the bench. Those teams would play great defense, but they would also run teams off the floor. They had no intention whatsoever of slowing the pace to crawl if a running opportunity presented itself. Everyone played defense, but the guards carried the scoring.

I see the Mavs and I don't really understand the logic behind the roster construction. I see they signed this guy to plug that hole and that guy to plug this hole. I don't see, "This is our identity." Not even, "We're going to play defense, so we'll put this roster on the floor." You don't have Stackhouse around if that's your goal.

I dunno. Maybe they just haven't had time to put together a team that Avery wants. But I also see a situation where Avery's probably not going to have a lot of input into the roster. Nellie left because, if you believe him, he sometimes didn't even have control over who was playing.

So I ask a few questions hopefully a Mav fan could answer for a sincere inquiry:

- What is the Mavs identity?

- Who is calling the shots?

- Do you think Mavs fans are so brainwashed by old criticism of the Nellie teams that they won't settle for anything less than a Pistons/Spurs-type team?

 

[cly2tw]

Hindsight is 20/20. Dirk improved a lot after Nash left. Mavs problem is not really letting Nash walk. They had chances to form their team via different means. Yet, they elected to go for Dampier and the combo of Terry/Harris. The final result is a team what is above average even quite good in many areas but not excel in any. They could have gone for Baron Davis, but elected not to.

 

[Mainstreet]

imo, if nash was still a mav, they could have won a ring by now..

IMO, the Mavs might well be working on their third NBA Championship if they had kept Nash. I can understand some of the anger that their fans were venting knowing this.

 

[Cheesebeef]

IMO, the Mavs might well be working on their third NBA Championship if they had kept Nash. I can understand some of the anger that their fans were venting knowing this.

Nash has yet to beat the same team that haunted him for years. Until he gets past SA, I think it's a bit unrealistic (IMO only) to say that he could have done the same for an even softer Mavericks squad.

 

[Mainstreet]

Nash has yet to beat the same team that haunted him for years. Until he gets past SA, I think it's a bit unrealistic (IMO only) to say that he could have done the same for an even softer Mavericks squad.

I have to disagree as I think the Mavs were on the threshold of one or more NBA Championships when they let Nash go. As good as the Mavs have been for the last few years it's hard for me to believe that Steve would not have gotten them to the promised land.

In the recesses of the Mavs mind they always have to be thinking this.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I have to disagree as I think the Mavs were on the threshold of one or more NBA Championships when they let Nash go. As good as the Mavs have been for the last few years it's hard for me to believe that Steve would not have gotten them to the promised land.

man, I don't know. I NEVER took ANY Mavs team seriously back then and I don't know a whole lot of people who did either. I mean in 2004, they got their asses kicked out of the first round in 5 games and the year before that, they got to the Conference Finals only after being taken to 7 games by an AWFUL #7 seeded Portland squad in the first and then lucking out against a Kings team (which already took homecourt away from them in Game 1) which lost Chris Webber in Game 2 and STILL took the Mavs to 7 games. The only thing that team seemed to be on threshold of was a 1990-92-Suns-like one and done rinse and repeat act.

Personally, I think the move made my Cuban worked GREAT for both teams - I think it emboldened Nash to REALLY concentrate on conditioning and doing everything he could to make himself a better player/give him a chip on his shoulder, much like the Suns/Nets trade did for Jason Kidd. It was one of the reason I hated Kidd so much because he seemed to FINALLY become the player I wanted him to be once he left, but I knew if we kept him, we would have been the same damn thing as we had been. I think the same exact thing happened with Nash and I say this because I remember not really being all that impressed with Nash in the playoffs and that was my biggest fear about getting him AND that was the knock from all the Dallas people. Then, he gets to a new team, gets a new lease on life, has a chip on his shoulder and WHAMMO! He's the MVP (much like people were touting Kidd during his first two years with the Nets).

As far as the Mavs, well, in the last three years, they've won 58 games, 61 games, 67 games, been to the 2nd round once, the Finals once and had an unbelievably horrible exit this year, but still, that three year run is better than any run the Nash-Dirk-Fins trio put together.

I think it's just a case of both teams benefitting from a parting of the ways.

 

[Mainstreet]

As far as the Mavs, well, in the last three years, they've won 58 games, 61 games, 67 games, been to the 2nd round once, the Finals once and had an unbelievably horrible exit this year, but still, that three year run is better than any run the Nash-Dirk-Fins trio put together.

I think it's just a case of both teams benefitting from a parting of the ways.

I know what your saying. However, I look at the Mavs team over the last three years and ask how much better would they have been with Nash. Certainly I think in the history of the Mavs a lot of people will be asking this question of the Mavs. What would have happened if the Mavs hadn't given up on a two time MVP?

I do believe Steve would have stabilized the Mavs in their Championship series with Miami last year. That was a good Mavs team that just fell apart. I think Steve would have held them together.

So many questions, so little time.

 

[3rdside]

cheese, very impressive post. I like your insight...

 

[azirish]

I have no idea what deals were made by the Nelsons and what deals were strictly Cuban. Also, I don't know how much impact AJ had in their off season decisions.

Who decided to go after Dampier? When he was signed, I was really surprised because the West tends to be up tempo and I thought he would do better in the East. In the Warrior series he was run off the floor.

Last summer, the Mavs went out and signed Devon George and Greg Buckner - two moderately athletic defensive specialists. They traded away Marquis Daniels and Darrell Armstrong for Austin Croshire and Anthony Johnson, who they later dumped. I think losing Daniels was real loss.

ake away the signing of Diop, I'm not that impressed with the moves they have made over the past two seasons. Perhaps not all the blame should be put on Cuban. For a team that got to the finals, you'd think that he as former PG would understand the need for a PG. But either Cuban doesn't listen or AJ didn't push hard enough for a PG.

 

[island_dude]

- What is the Mavs identity?

- Who is calling the shots?

The identity question is a good one, especially now. This was a team that was built around Dirk as the star player and leader, but now I really have serious doubts as to whether he's cut out for that role. I'm not saying he still isn't a great player, but I think he's more cut out to be a Robin rather than a Batman. I don't think Dirk ever really wanted that mantle to begin with, but the organization made the decision to give it to him when they let Nash go. Even though Steve wasn't the leader in Dallas he's now become in Phoenix, I still think he was more cut out for that role than Dirk. In other words Steve was the Batman and Dirk was Robin. I think he was a security blanket for Dirk, for lack of a better word, and we're now seeing some of Dirk's flaws without having that.

I think most of us bought into the defensive stuff with Avery coming on board, but it's clear this team is lacking an offensive identity. What most everyone was saying during the regular season was they could play any style. They could run with the Suns or grinde it out with the Spurs, which is true to an extent. I think the fact that they were last in the league in assists was a warning sign of what was to come. Sure they run alot alot of isolations and depend on alot one one play in the half court, but I think that was where Nellie was able to expose them. All he had to do was take Dirk out of the offense and they'd fold like a lawn chair. Needless to say the series was lost more on the offnsive end than defensive end, and the blame for that I lay at the feet of Avery Johnson.

I think at one time Cuban was calling alot of the shots behind the scenes, and he may still to an extent, but I think Donnie and Avery have quite a bit of freedom as far as personnel goes. I think Cuban has backed off a little as far as that goes, but make no question he's still the final say. According to Cuban Dirk is still the man in Dallas, and there isn't anyone who's going to change that, even if Avery wanted to try to deal him or not.

 

[island_dude]

I appreciate the opinions given by you Suns fans, and it appears this is a very knowlegable forum with people who look at things objectively and not entirely through Suns orange colored glasses.

While my team was ousted by the #8 seed, I don't think it's time to overreact blow things up. It think they ran into a matchup from hell and had some weaknesses exposed. With a couple of teaks I think they'll be back again next season, and again be one of the top teams. Alot depends on Dirk and what his psyche will be like, but I expect he'll bounce back. I'm not sure whether he should be counted on the leader of or not though. When he said their season was pretty much over when they wnet down 3-1, that pretty much showed a defeatest attitude. Not really what you want to hear from your so called leader.

At one time I bought into the fact that the Suns could never win a title with their run and gun style, but like someone else pointed out, it isn't so much about the style, but moreso the talent of the players, the execution, and chemistry of the team. While I do think defense is important, the Suns play better defense than they get credit for, and I see no reason why they can't win it all this year. Part of me is hoping they do so all the naysaying can be put to rest.

 

[elindholm]

Great posts. The main thing I noticed about the Warriors series was that Nowitzki was afraid to go into the post. All season long, we heard about how he had diversified his game to become a true low-post threat, and I sometimes saw that, but the reports struck me as exaggerated. Against the Warriors, he reverted to his old form as a seven-foot jump-shooter, and that can't lead a team anywhere. I don't know whether Johnson didn't give Nowitzki the right kind of encouragement to get into the post or if the whole team just panicked after they lost the first game. But it's probably not fair to judge these Mavericks until they at least attempt to use the strategy that was supposed to make them an elite team.

 

[hafey]

It was a confluence of factors preventing Dirk from getting to the post. Dirk doesn't like being down there to start with; its just too physical. Second when he did get the ball low he lacks any true back to the basket game so he still ends up facing and shooting, often off a left handed dribble. The Warriors were prepared for this and ran at him on his first dribble. Third the Warriors made it very difficult to get Dirk the ball on the ocasions he did feel like posting him up. They'd often front him with decently sized, athletic guys like Barnes and Jackson. Fourth the Mavs lack both a true PG and a PG with size, so they were having trouble making the entry pass over the Warrios larger guards.

 

[azirish]

Complaints about Dirk's inability to go to the post is a bit unfair. Every other low post player has someone who will pass him the ball. It's harder to pass the ball inside, so the only time anybody passes Dirk the ball is when he's on thee perimeter. Dirk is certainly not going to drive the basket that much and is more danagerous as a shooter anyway.

The Mavs start two combo guards. Jason Terry 5.2 assists per game Harris averages 4.0. Those are good numbers for off guards, but pathetic for PGs. Terry ranks 27th in the NBA in assists.

The only "name" PG with fewer assists than Terry was Bibby. At 5.2 assists per game, Terry is not that far ahead of Diaw at 4.8 in a year Boris has not handled the ball very much.

BTW, Nash had 11.8 assists per game.