After THE Pick and Roll

[Irish]

I agree that Amare was not woth a max deal. However, I'm pretty sure that the Suns will have to make some major changes now that Amare is gone.

Let's be clear, the Nash to Stoudemire pick and roll was one of the most devetating plays in the NBA. Amare had a career 21.4 ppg, 54.4% shooting average. His shooting percentage went up his third year from 47.5% to 55.9% once teamed with Nash. Amare's abiltiy to absorb fouls and still score all but defined the Suns offense.

Diaw did a good job when Amare was out during 2205-06, scoring 13.3 ppg on 52.6%, but his ability to score when foulded was not close to Amare's. Playing 35.5 minutes a game, Diaw only averaged 6.2 rpg which was 0.175 rebounds per minute. I think this proves He was just not that physical.

Assuming Frye becomes the new starting power forward, I would not expect him to be hugely better at the pick and roll than Diaw was. If anything, I would expect more "pick and pop" from Frye as long as he figures out how to get his feet set more quickly That may be a real tradeoff, but itt will take some work because Frye has trouble when he is defensed. The Diaw year actually had KT doing the pick and roll as much as Diaw. But he only averaged 8.6 ppg on 48.8%.

Harrick (sic?) is listed at 210, so I am not sure he is going to be any more physical than Frye going to basket. Laval may be the best pick and roll prospect, but he is consdered very raw so I would cound on much at least for a few years.

I am not encouraged, but we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Sunburn]

It seemed to me that Lopez became more adept as a pick and roll partner as the season wore on last year.

 

[Gaddabout]

This is what I was saying in another thread. The entire offense was built around Stoudemire's ability to score efficiently in the paint. Without that constant threat, teams will be able to stretch their defense out to the 3pt line. What's the point of having a guy like Frye if he's no longer going to get 10 open looks at the basket every night? We already know he can't shoot with a hand in his face.

 

[Griffin]

Assuming Frye becomes the new starting power forward

I think it's more likely at this point that the Suns will start Warrick and keep Frye as the back-up center. I guess how they perform in training camp will probably determine that.

 

[Yuma]

I think it's more likely at this point that the Suns will start Warrick and keep Frye as the back-up center. I guess how they perform in training camp will probably determine that.

I agree if we are looking to keep the pick and roll. I think we will change offenses. That's a lot to ask ANY player we have on staff to assume Amar'e's role. I think we signed Warrick as a starter. Just not sure he's athletic enough to be Amar'e. We may be looking at a new offense next season.

 

[Gaddabout]

I agree if we are looking to keep the pick and roll. I think we will change offenses. That's a lot to ask ANY player we have on staff to assume Amar'e's role. I think we signed Warrick as a starter. Just not sure he's athletic enough to be Amar'e. We may be looking at a new offense next season.

Based on the mix-and-match skills of the players on the roster, what could that offense possibly be? And why keep Nash if you're going to change the offense? Any offense that doesn't let him create, he's reduced to a shooter who can't play defense ... won't get to the line, won't create extra opportunities.

 

[Irish]

Based on the mix-and-match skills of the players on the roster, what could that offense possibly be? And why keep Nash if you're going to change the offense? Any offense that doesn't let him create, he's reduced to a shooter who can't play defense ... won't get to the line, won't create extra opportunities.

When Nash played with Dirk, they did fine. But I will agree that this seriously limits Nash's value.

 

[binkar]

I think Warrick will start for a number of reasons:
-First, I think Channing fits better coming off the bench with Dragic running the point. Frye forces the defense to the perimeter which will allow Dragic to attack the basket and dish back out to Frye as the defense collapses.

-Second, I don't think Frye's skills are as fit to play the pick and roll as Warrick's. Warrick was brought here in large part due to his ability to play the pick and roll. I was reading an article (I believe it was BrightSideoftheSun or ValleyoftheSuns) that had done a statistical analysis on where Warrick is most successful. The results showed that Warrick was by far most effective when he was running the pick and roll. Obviously he won't be as successful as Amare, but I think he could be the best pick and role player we have.

 

[binkar]

I agree if we are looking to keep the pick and roll. I think we will change offenses. That's a lot to ask ANY player we have on staff to assume Amar'e's role. I think we signed Warrick as a starter. Just not sure he's athletic enough to be Amar'e. We may be looking at a new offense next season.

Athleticism is definitely not the issue. Warrick is ridiculous athlete. However, Amare's strength and skill can't even be touched by Warrick.

 

[BC867]

It seemed to me that Lopez became more adept as a pick and roll partner as the season wore on last year.

Good point. The Suns even used Lopez on a few consecutives P&R plays when Amar'e was being smothered by three Lakers.

I don't understand why it lasted only one game. If Amar'e is triple-teamed, keep going to Lopez until it stops working.

Lopez showed he could handle it -- quite an accomplishment for his limited playing time before the Western finals. And, more importantly, if they have to guard him, they can't triple-team Amar'e.

 

[Covert Rain]

Good point. The Suns even used Lopez on a few consecutives P&R plays when Amar'e was being smothered by three Lakers.

I don't understand why it lasted only one game. If Amar'e is triple-teamed, keep going to Lopez until it stops working.

Lopez showed he could handle it -- quite an accomplishment for his limited playing time before the Western finals. And, more importantly, if they have to guard him, they can't triple-team Amar'e.

He became better but hardly competent at the pick and roll. I remember lots of missed layups, dunks and clumsy drops of the ball on the pick and roll with Nash.

Amare was double and triple teamed. That will not happen to Lopez, Warrick or Frye.

I just don't see the pick and roll being a major weapon anymore which means other guys are going to have to step up.

My guess is this team becomes even more of a jump shooting team then last year because we won't have anything on the inside unless it's a put back.

 

[cly2tw]

Good point. The Suns even used Lopez on a few consecutives P&R plays when Amar'e was being smothered by three Lakers.

I don't understand why it lasted only one game. If Amar'e is triple-teamed, keep going to Lopez until it stops working.

Lopez showed he could handle it -- quite an accomplishment for his limited playing time before the Western finals. And, more importantly, if they have to guard him, they can't triple-team Amar'e.

We did. Lakers adjusted and repeatedly blocked Robin's attempts later on. That's why it lasted only one game. The only constant in that series for us was Amare getting to the hoop, though not always successful with the shots.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It seemed like most of the time that Lopez scored on a pick and roll was because of all the attention Amare and our shooters were drawing. He was often left uncovered and once any team paid attention to him they pretty much shut him down (except in a Clippers game and a regular season Blazers game IIRC).

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

My guess is this team becomes even more of a jump shooting team then last year because we won't have anything on the inside unless it's a put back.

I agree. I hate to say it, but the Suns best chance of winning is a high tempo offense with hopefully some defense mixed into the blend as Gentry has done. The Suns definitely seem like more of a finesse team without Amare. I'm just not sure if Nash can create the fast pace he did a few years ago. Dragic will have to be at his best pushing the ball and maybe the Suns get lucky with Reynolds as a third PG type player that can score. Lopez might be able to score in a slower pace game, but the Suns are going to have problems at PF both offensively and defensively. The Suns simply do not match up to good teams at PF. It's a lot to ask, but the rookies will have to at least rebound and play defense. Clark seems to have a SF mentality.

I guess right now I do not see the light at the end of the tunnel looking at the Suns. However, the Suns performed much better than I thought last season. Gentry will have to be a genius to get the Suns in the playoffs barring any other significant move to improve the team.

 

[mojorizen7]

It seemed to me that Lopez became more adept as a pick and roll partner as the season wore on last year.

I agree. He looked pretty good at times slipping to the basket,and his mid-range jumper wasn't bad either.
Obviously improvement will need to be made in terms of using his big body to create space inside.

Same old concerns for me...defense and rebounding. Looks like our only losses up front will be Amare & probably Lou, but Amare's ability to score 20+ per somewhat negated his weaknesses on the other end.

As of right now we're weak up front on both ends IMO.
Who's gonna score and mix it up inside besides Lopez?
As for guarding opposing 4s and 5s....same as last season minus Lou.
God i hate that Frye signing........

 

[green machine]

The Suns, as they stand now, will be lucky to shoot 15 free throws a game. If you hated the way this team was officiated before, wow, you may want to look away from the upcoming season.

 

[Errntknght]

The pick and roll, per se, is the least of our worries - as long as we have Nash it will be a useful weapon. He'll have more targets and run it from more spots on the floor - and teams won't be able to gear up to stop just he and Amare any more. We're going to have to have a more varied offense, and as far as I'm concerned thats a good thing.

The thing that worries me the most is Robin's back as that is often a continuing problem, especially for bigs. Even with him healthy we are very thin at PF and C, not to mention lacking in muscle - I imagine they'll bring Jarron Collins back and maybe give Dwayne Jones a trial - they might as well, though he's probably not any better than his history suggests. Given some time, Earl Clark and our two rookies might solidfy the front court but they don't figure to bolster it much next year.