Allowing Levi Brown to Reach Free Agency Is...

[kerouac9]

Fairly straightforward poll, because I don't really like these. But I'd like to get a better temperature of the board than just those who shout the loudest.

A mistake: The Cards would be better off extending Levi Brown for some period of time unsure of what the open market might bring, but at a price that secures his payment in 2012 of the $18.2 million that he'd have coming without a renegotiation.

The right choice: Selecting Levi Brown was the original sin that now will be washed away when Brown signs a contract averaging $8 million a season with $20 million guaranteed. Better to turn the page than keep Brown around as a fallback. Any other offensive tackle in the NFL or any draft pick in any round is a superior option to Levi Brown.

 

[BigRedRage]

Today - the right choice. LEading up to today, poorly handled.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

a Godsend.

 

[bg7brd]

Sign him and move him back to the right side where he can be a good to very good RT.

 

[az jam]

I think its another front office mistake. They should have worked a new deal last year.

 

[Solar7]

It's a good thing. Maybe not to the extreme that these poll options point to, but Levi held all of the leverage here. Why would he sign for a lesser value when he's either going to make 18.2 million, or get a hefty new contract somewhere else? We're not going to pay him what he will likely get elsewhere.

Also, this forces us to look for replacements.

 

[bg7brd]

It's a good thing. Maybe not to the extreme that these poll options point to, but Levi held all of the leverage here. Why would he sign for a lesser value when he's either going to make 18.2 million, or get a hefty new contract somewhere else? We're not going to pay him what he will likely get elsewhere.

Also, this forces us to look for replacements.

I wouldn't be so sure. Whiz had good things to say about Levi after the season ended.

 

[john h]

Fairly straightforward poll, because I don't really like these. But I'd like to get a better temperature of the board than just those who shout the loudest.

A mistake: The Cards would be better off extending Levi Brown for some period of time unsure of what the open market might bring, but at a price that secures his payment in 2012 of the $18.2 million that he'd have coming without a renegotiation.

The right choice: Selecting Levi Brown was the original sin that now will be washed away when Brown signs a contract averaging $8 million a season with $20 million guaranteed. Better to turn the page than keep Brown around as a fallback. Any other offensive tackle in the NFL or any draft pick in any round is a superior option to Levi Brown.

When letting an acceptable or better player leave you should always have someone to replace him. Not jus a maybe type guy but a guy you know you can or will get. Is his replacement going to be better. He better be else it is another bad move in a line of many.

I never thought I would say this but from the post and comments I am reading I sense that Graves really does have power in obtaining free agents and very involved in the draft. I for many years have thought of him as a figurehead but it now appears he is in fact a player in any moves we make. Is that good or bad? You be the judge.

 

[Buckybird]

Average player who's going to get wayyyy more than average pay!!! Good ridance.

 

[john h]

I think its another front office mistake. They should have worked a new deal last year.

It seems we are nearly always late in signing or extending contracts. I think that extends back to Mr. B's old philosophy of not doing early extensions. Good team IMHO extend there core players early and often. Our general philosophy on this subject has been one of the reasons for 100 years of failure. 100 years of just bad luck does not compute. There are plausible reasons.

In the case of Campbell there was a good reason which I cannot explain but was well explained in some article I read. We are working with his agent as I write on a long term extension and can do so for a while. He is one we certainly need to sign to a long term contract. He record shows it and looking at him on the field shows it. He is a second round pick with first round capability. I am not sure I can recall any Cardinal player who has blocked as may FG attempts or blocked passes in my lifetime. He has a great sense of timing and at 6'8" and long arms is a perfect specimen. Some of these blocks and passes batted down won games for us last year. Come on Cards do not mess this up as we would just have another hole to fill and no one anywhere close to his ability available. Also a young guy. When is the last time we drafted a punter or kicker. Kickers seem to be forgotten people on most teams yet look at the games they win and lose. Behind the QB there may be no other player that losses or wins games as a kicker. Our usual way is to sign one of the many guys released each year for this valuable position. Seems like Steve Little was the last guy I recall being drafted and his injury turned it into a disaster both for him and the team. A #1 pick, I think, which many thought was crazy. My favorite kicker of all time was Jim "can't miss" Baken. Seems like he always made the game winner when needed. I got to see the giant kick of around 63 yds by Dempsey many years ago. He had only a partial foot and kicked straight away and was a fatty to boot. Never did see what he wore for a shoe. Probably made of solid steel. I would not have wanted to be his holder.

Letting Brown and Cambell leave would be a disaster IMHO.

 

[52brandon]

you should change the poll to reflect the reality of the situation better. Like:
What is Levi Brown worth?
-nothing
-< $4M/year
-$5-6M/year
etc.

paying $8M/year for him is definitely not worth it though

 

[Catfish]

To John H. In my own heart, I believe that Graves IS very involved in selecting players both in free agency and the draft. While it appears that he has no clue when it comes to talent evaluation, (which was why they brought in Keim), he also seems to lack the ability to structure a contract, or to act upon that contract in a timely manner, (not sure which is correct), so that we have a legitimate shot at retaining those players that succeed. Levi did not play well until his last 8 games as a Cardinal. We have no real recourse other than letting him hit the market.

The problem is that he did not allow for this, and had no replacement aboard, (or even readily available in free agency in order for this to happen without hurting us. Now, we are relegated to getting into a bidding war for an injury prone free agent, or to take a shot at taking Martin in the draft, and he has already shown the inability to handle speed rushers. That is precisely the type of pass rusher that Levi could not handle either.

Because Grimm prefers the big bodied Tackles, we will always lack one who can handle speed rushers I guess. A good offensive line is paramount in any team's chance at success in this league. We have not had one since the Cardinals fired Joe Bugel, and don't look to have one in the near future.

There are too many cooks in the kitchen-----Grimm wants big guys. Whiz doesn't allow for a scheme that lets big, (slower footed guys), to get help with speed rushers. Graves not only doesn't appear to know how to select a person who can remedy this, but can't seem to structure contracts correctly, or enact them in a timely manner so that continuity is achieved.

 

[Chopper0080]

It should have never come to this.

 

[Buckybird]

I wouldn't be so sure. Whiz had good things to say about Levi after the season ended.

Let's be real...whats Wiz going to say? He & Graves also said "at a price". I highly doubt they will resign an average player at what he likely will get on the market.

Unless he wants to come back at $5-6 mil he's gone.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Fairly straightforward poll, because I don't really like these. But I'd like to get a better temperature of the board than just those who shout the loudest.

A mistake: The Cards would be better off extending Levi Brown for some period of time unsure of what the open market might bring, but at a price that secures his payment in 2012 of the $18.2 million that he'd have coming without a renegotiation.

The right choice: Selecting Levi Brown was the original sin that now will be washed away when Brown signs a contract averaging $8 million a season with $20 million guaranteed. Better to turn the page than keep Brown around as a fallback. Any other offensive tackle in the NFL or any draft pick in any round is a superior option to Levi Brown.

Too many variables for me to choose one of two, all or nothing options.

I would have liked to keep Levi Brown here with a reduced contract, and no guarantee to have a starting position.

He would have NEVER accepted those terms, so I guess I should pick the Cardinals have handled it fine, IMO.

As I said, there are a handful of solid OT free agents that all, per stats, and showing would be an upgrade at LT.

 

[cardsfanmd]

How on earth can anyone call this a good choice? There is nothing better/safer on the market. Gaither is a better player and Bell may be as well but both are injury prone (whereas Levi has always been a warrior in that regard), neither have any familiarity with the system and Gaither is a moron who we would never sign anyhow. That some of you have suggested the likes of the Jeff Backus' and Stephon Heyer's of the worlds as improvements shows that you dont watch much football besides the Cardinals (not that I fault you for this...). Now, as usual, we have painted ourselves into a corner come draft day. Jonathan Martin/Mike Adams/DeCastro at LT or Cordy Glenn @ 13, here we come!! This sucks donkey balls.

 

[football karma]

here is the reality ( from Levi's point of view):

you are going to be a free agent. The Cardinals have likely offered you what their "price" is - or at least 90% of it.

Why not hit free agency? Why not maybe start fresh in some other city where you could:

A. Get paid more, and
B. Get away from being labeled as "the guy we took instead of Adrian Peterson"

Resigning him prior to free agency would have meant overpaying him, probably significantly.

I say all this wanting to bring him back -- but not at a contract that basically says that the team is stuck with him for another three seasons if he immediately reverts to suckitude.

 

[kerouac9]

Too many variables for me to choose one of two, all or nothing options.

I would have liked to keep Levi Brown here with a reduced contract, and no guarantee to have a starting position.

He would have NEVER accepted those terms, so I guess I should pick the Cardinals have handled it fine, IMO.

As I said, there are a handful of solid OT free agents that all, per stats, and showing would be an upgrade at LT.

That's the thing. The only deal that makes sense from Levi's side is one that guarantees him what he'd be getting this year, and spreads that cost over multiple seasons at a reduced rate for the Cards.

People expecting Levi Brown to settle for Stewart Bradley money aren't being realistic. He's going to get paid more than that as a free agent. The question is whether you're more interested in Levi Brown overpaid for two seasons and a bargain for the next two plus flexibility with your first round pick, or rolling the dice with a free agent (IMO unlikely) or using the 13th overall pick in the 2012 draft on an offensive tackle, regardless of what else is on the board.

I'd prefer the flexibility that keeping Levi provides.

The caveat is that there's some chance (I'd put it at 20%) that Brown finds the market uninteresting and decides to come back at the reduced rate that would make you happy--call it the Deuce Lutui Scenario. If that's what happens then the front office deserves enormous kudos. But I'm guessing he sees $9 million per year average the first two years of the deal, and then something like $6 or $7 million per year in the remainder.

That is a solid contract.

 

[Duckjake]

Most were glad to see Leonard Davis go. And who replaced him? Not Levi Brown but journeyman Mike Gandy. I don't remember the Cards offense suffering with Gandy at LT. We won't miss Levi and there is no reason to reach for a LT in the draft either. A solid veteran LT will do just fine.

 

[MadCardDisease]

That's the thing. The only deal that makes sense from Levi's side is one that guarantees him what he'd be getting this year, and spreads that cost over multiple seasons at a reduced rate for the Cards.

People expecting Levi Brown to settle for Stewart Bradley money aren't being realistic. He's going to get paid more than that as a free agent. The question is whether you're more interested in Levi Brown overpaid for two seasons and a bargain for the next two plus flexibility with your first round pick, or rolling the dice with a free agent (IMO unlikely) or using the 13th overall pick in the 2012 draft on an offensive tackle, regardless of what else is on the board.

I'd prefer the flexibility that keeping Levi provides.

The caveat is that there's some chance (I'd put it at 20%) that Brown finds the market uninteresting and decides to come back at the reduced rate that would make you happy--call it the Deuce Lutui Scenario. If that's what happens then the front office deserves enormous kudos. But I'm guessing he sees $9 million per year average the first two years of the deal, and then something like $6 or $7 million per year in the remainder.

That is a solid contract.

I agree with what you are saying. There are basically two big holes on the Cards OL and they are both at Tackle. However the Cards put themselves in a bad spot with their failure to draft or bring in a developmental prospect at the position over the last two years. With no one in the wings to turn to, their best option is to try and work a deal with Brown.

Here is where I try and talk myself into keeping Brown. He did show some improvement over the last half of the season and he has been a pretty solid run blocker. He is about as good as any of the available FAs to hit the market this year (Yes it's a bad time to be in the market for an OT). Again, the Cards painted themselves into a corner.

 

[Mitch]

What is extremely frustrating about this situation is that the Cardinals have not been pro-active in two very important senses: (1) while seeing this coming they have not been able to redo a deal with Brown; (2) while they were busy in last year's draft selecting a RB, situational TE and FB in rounds 2,3 and 5, they eschewed the thought of drafting Brown's possible replacement.

The Cardinals' FO themselves boxed this whole situation into a corner and if they had the perspicacity to look ahead at what alternatives they would have in 2012 if they were to turn Brown free, they would have seen that it makes the situation all the more tenuous.

Chalk this up to yet another mishandling of a first round draft pick---and an inability to know or do the right thing.

 

[kerouac9]

Most were glad to see Leonard Davis go. And who replaced him? Not Levi Brown but journeyman Mike Gandy. I don't remember the Cards offense suffering with Gandy at LT. We won't miss Levi and there is no reason to reach for a LT in the draft either. A solid veteran LT will do just fine.

LOL. Kurt Warner had nothing to do with that, of course. And Kevin Kolb is exactly like Kurt Warner. This argument is so barren of value.

Unfortunately, NFL.com only has QB hit information from 2007 onward. I bet it illustrates that the person suffering with Gandy at LT was Kurt Warner.

Anyone have some old FootballOutsiders Annuals?

 

[Duckjake]

LOL. Kurt Warner had nothing to do with that, of course. And Kevin Kolb is exactly like Kurt Warner. This argument is so barren of value.

Unfortunately, NFL.com only has QB hit information from 2007 onward. I bet it illustrates that the person suffering with Gandy at LT was Kurt Warner.

Anyone have some old FootballOutsiders Annuals?

LOL Here comes the tired old Warner did it all by himself argument.

Sorry pods but the Cards running game was also better in ypc than it had been in almost 25 years in 2009. The Cards could put Jeremy Bridges, who just happened to be starting vs Green Bay in the playoffs when the Cards offense went off the charts, at LT this fall and we wouldn't even know Levi Brown was gone.

Here's some K9 hyperbole for you: It wasn't Warner retiring or having DAnderson or Kevin Kolb at QB that killed the Cards offense. It was moving Levi Brown to LT. 3 years of awesome offense and then Levi goes to Left Tackle and the offense goes down the toilet.

 

[Dayman]

What is extremely frustrating about this situation is that the Cardinals have not been pro-active in two very important senses: (1) while seeing this coming they have not been able to redo a deal with Brown; (2) while they were busy in last year's draft selecting a RB, situational TE and FB in rounds 2,3 and 5, they eschewed the thought of drafting Brown's possible replacement.

The Cardinals' FO themselves boxed this whole situation into a corner and if they had the perspicacity to look ahead at what alternatives they would have in 2012 if they were to turn Brown free, they would have seen that it makes the situation all the more tenuous.

Chalk this up to yet another mishandling of a first round draft pick---and an inability to know or do the right thing.

Good post.

This strange aversion to drafting O-linemen is baffling, as is the heavily inflated last year in a contract negotiating method RG loves so much. The two were bound to coincide in destructive fashion at some point.

 

[CardLogic]

OT: Dempsey's shoe

I got to see the giant kick of around 63 yds by Dempsey many years ago. He had only a partial foot and kicked straight away and was a fatty to boot. Never did see what he wore for a shoe. Probably made of solid steel. I would not have wanted to be his holder.

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