am I the only one that thinks the jj deal is great for the suns?

[sundevil81]

forget about diaw but the lakers pick next year that is top 10 protected which probably wont be top 10 anyways but should be lottery and the ahwks pick that is lottery protected next year and considering that the hawks wont be in the playoffs next year well get that pick in '07 when its only top 3 protected and should be 4-8ish because the hawks will still suck. not to mention we get rid of a guy that openly admits he would rather play for money than championships.

 

[nothin' but net]

nope

 

[Treesquid PhD]

well you can't project that pick and say this is a good deal..I am sure if I went back to the board last year how many would have thought the Bulls picks would be past top 10? Probably none, zero, zippo as bobby would say.

This is not a great trade for now let me list some questions and answer them honestly

- Are the Suns a better basketball team right now without Joe Johnson?
- How many first round picks have the Suns traded away (edit) over the last 5 years?
- How many old players have the Suns signed to big deals with their new found cap flexibility over the years and gotten into cap issues becasue of them, only to dump their picks as a result?

 

[cpatterson23]

well you can't project that pick and say this is a good deal..I am sure if I went back to the board last year how many would have thought the Bulls picks would be past top 10? Probably none, zero, zippo as bobby would say.

This is not a great trade for now let me list some questions and answer them honestly

- Are the Suns a better basketball team right now without Joe Johnson?
- How many first round picks have the Suns traded away (edit) over the last 5 years?
- How many old players have the Suns signed to big deals with their new found cap flexibility over the years and gotten into cap issues becasue of them, only to dump their picks as a result?

Ah but to the "how many picks have they traded"

riddle me this: if they don't pick well, how come the only real pick they've had ended up being one of the best in the nba(of course, amare)

EDIT: I don't think this deal is GREAT for the suns, but if we can't get JJ when he's not being greedy, then somebody else can pay him the big bucks

 

[George O'Brien]

We don't really know how protected these draft picks are or even which picks. What is "lottery protected?" Are the top three protected or top 15?

If these picks are top 15 protected, the Suns might not be able to use the pick for a quite a while. Remember the Cleveland pick.

 

[overseascardfan]

I think draft picks are too risky. They are both protected meaning we may wait two years before getting them plus they may not put us into a position to get Oden as everyone is hoping for.

Reality is that we need players to help now, so any trade involving JJ needs to be for good, young talent.

I say get Magloire, West, and either Claxton or Dickau from NO for JJ and maybe a second rounder.

With the addition of Thomas, and Bell it signals we are going away from the run and gun style to a more defensive oriented team. So getting Magloire gives us a legitimate C who is a former all star. Yes it was for the East but he won't need to score much, but just focus on rebounding and defense, and plus he's only like 27 or 28. David West would be a nice addition to back up Amare, and could replace KT when his deal expires. Either PG can run an offense and give Nash a breather.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I think draft picks are too risky. They are both protected meaning we may wait two years before getting them plus they may not put us into a position to get Oden as everyone is hoping for.

Reality is that we need players to help now, so any trade involving JJ needs to be for good, young talent.

I say get Magloire, West, and either Claxton or Dickau from NO for JJ and maybe a second rounder.

With the addition of Thomas, and Bell it signals we are going away from the run and gun style to a more defensive oriented team. So getting Magloire gives us a legitimate C who is a former all star. Yes it was for the East but he won't need to score much, but just focus on rebounding and defense, and plus he's only like 27 or 28. David West would be a nice addition to back up Amare, and could replace KT when his deal expires. Either PG can run an offense and give Nash a breather.

Asking for way too much in the above deal. And we should forget about getting Oden (pipe dream...and you know what pipe im talking about)until 2007......I have learned my lesson. I was excited about a top ten bulls pick and they just kept winning. we cant predict next season let alone two or three seasons from now......

 

[Mainstreet]

All I've wanted is to get fair compensation when either JJ or Marion were moved (either this year or next) because of the luxury tax implications. IMO, it was only a matter of time.

It seems that JJ has made the choice for the Suns (of when and who).

Certainly it could be argued that the Suns are not getting enough compensation but apparently Atlanta's Governor is arguing otherwise... the Hawks are giving up too much (Diaw and (2) first round picks). Of course the Suns also get the 4.9 million dollar trade exception.

Overall I think the trade is as fair as it is probably going to be dealing with Atlanta.

I would have preferred the Suns doing a sign and trade with another team for at least one proven player (like a PG) and some picks, however, whether this becomes an option remains to be seen.

 

[cardsunsfan]

Most pics don't pan out that well... look at where you think our picks are going to be projected and try to figure out how those players will compare to JJ. The odds are they won't be near as good and will take yrs to develop. There are only so many good players out there. Alot of soso players in the future are going to get close to the Max. I really hope JJ somehow comes back to us...

 

[KloD]

If the Suns were to have matched JJ which we all know would have been the outs for Marion next year. We would not get equal compensation. How could we? We can't bring back equal salary, that would make the trade useless. So it would be down to rookie salary and picks.

I think the trade is fair and actually am amazed we were able to get that much from Atlanta (if it goes through). Teams that put themselves in these positions do not have the 'edge'. This is why the Suns have had to give up picks in the past in order to get someone to take the salary off their hands.

This is not a 'rip-off'. Jeez JJ hasn't really proven anything, he will not be the savior of the Hawks. He is good, but not that kind of player. Some of you make it sound as if we are losing T-mac or Koby.

 

[dbUNIT16]

You are dead wrong my friend, we are not getting away from the running game, if you ask Sarver he'll tell you that the Q deal was made in part to make us a faster team. The fact is that Bell is FASTER then Q, and Thomas will be fine running with us.

 

[CaptainInsano]

I know it sounds odd but we will be a better defensive running team. The spurs can do it, heck they outran(scored) us in the playoffs in 100+ point games.

Q and JJ had nothing to do with the run and gun system. Q was purely a 3 chucker and a vomit inducing one at that, and JJ just ran with the system that basically amare and nash setup with good help from marion and then complained about it because it wasn't HIS system or HIS playmaking.

 

[asudevil83]

i think that this deal is the best possible thing for the suns. i look at it this way: what would you rather have after next season (figuring that the suns have to move marion for cap reasons)

1.) Marion + 2 lotto potential draft picks and Diaw

or

2.) JJ + worthless expring contract and maybe a pick


i myself would rather take Marion and draft picks. its a no brainer.......factor in that JJ doesnt even want to play for the suns, and you have pretty much a lopsided deal here.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

If the Suns were to have matched JJ which we all know would have been the outs for Marion next year. We would not get equal compensation. How could we? We can't bring back equal salary, that would make the trade useless. So it would be down to rookie salary and picks.

I think the trade is fair and actually am amazed we were able to get that much from Atlanta (if it goes through). Teams that put themselves in these positions do not have the 'edge'. This is why the Suns have had to give up picks in the past in order to get someone to take the salary off their hands.

This is not a 'rip-off'. Jeez JJ hasn't really proven anything, he will not be the savior of the Hawks. He is good, but not that kind of player. Some of you make it sound as if we are losing T-mac or Koby.

well I personally don't agree with this, again f you always want proven players your likely going to get old ones on the downside. like Tracy in Toronto JJ could be on the upside. But hey we can sign him back when he is 38 right?


I find it funny because these same fans really think that "proven" players like Michael Finley and Gary Payton are going to play at the level they were when they were 27.

 

[George O'Brien]

Finley is attractive because he is a very good outside shooter (40.7% for three) and is likely to be cheap.

 

[KloD]

well I personally don't agree with this, again f you always want proven players your likely going to get old ones on the downside. like Tracy in Toronto JJ could be on the upside. But hey we can sign him back when he is 38 right?


I find it funny because these same fans really think that "proven" players like Michael Finley and Gary Payton are going to play at the level they were when they were 27.

And how many guys have recieved big money because they showed "potential" and turned out to be maybe above average?
Rose, Eddie Jones, ect.

I may be old school, but I believe a person should recieve a raise when they have proven they deserve it. I wouldn't go to my boss and tell him to pay me top salary because I will get better at my job.

 

[Dustbuster]

KloD, love the tagline about God. Great stuff.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think it is interesting to note that when former Suns players are on the downside of their career (money not being a deciding factor), many choose to return to Phoenix.

I think this speaks volumes about the Suns' organization and how players learn the grass is not always greener elsewhere.

JC has always tried to maintain a good relationship with his players and I hope Mr. Sarver learns this important point. Although sometimes players get their feelings hurt when traded, most of the former Suns players are able to put this part of the business behind them.

 

[cpatterson23]

well, JJ could also have been doing what SO MANY others do: play well as hell for the last season b4 free agency, in order to get more money.

 

[KloD]

KloD, love the tagline about God. Great stuff.

Thanks, I love it too.
I was wondering if anyone would ever comment on it? I just laughed so hard when I saw it. I guess one must be a student of Philosophy to appreciate it.

 

[Joe Mama]

You are dead wrong my friend, we are not getting away from the running game, if you ask Sarver he'll tell you that the Q deal was made in part to make us a faster team. The fact is that Bell is FASTER then Q, and Thomas will be fine running with us.

I agree, dbUNIT16. The Phoenix Suns are absolutely not going away from the running game. In fact they think that Kurt Thomas will help them get even faster because his rebounding will allow Shawn Marion and Amare Stoudemire to release earlier and more often.

I wanted to keep JJ because I think he makes the team better this upcoming season. Quite honestly I'm not sure if it's in the best long-term interest for the team. Unlike a lot of you I really like Diaw. I also think those draft picks could turn into good players or valuable assets in a trade. At the very least they would allow the Suns to make deals involving their own picks.

Furthermore, as someone else pointed out, it's not just JJ straight up for Diaw and the two picks. There's also the $4.9 million trade exception that helps them in a possible trade. On top of that they save $5-6 million in team salary. This will probably allow them to keep Shawn Marion whereas if they had signed JJ that would have been very difficult.

The only thing that would really, really upset me at this point is if the Phoenix Suns agreed to a lesser package or worse yet JJ just signs the one-year offer and becomes an unrestricted free agent next season.

Joe Mama

 

[cpatterson23]

yeah, we're gonna still have that run-n-gun game. All we need is another SG who doesn't even need to play the whole game, now that we have bell

 

[Mainstreet]

yeah, we're gonna still have that run-n-gun game. All we need is another SG who doesn't even need to play the whole game, now that we have bell

The Suns still need that PG (priority). Also another 4/5. I'm still liking Steven Hunter if he can be had reasonably.

I'm not terribly worried about SG with players like Bell and Jackson on the roster. Also add in the mix Dijon Thompson and possibly even Casey Jacobsen or Finley rejoining the team and the Suns would be set.

 

[George O'Brien]

I am mystified by how may people think that moving Q and losing JJ will end the Suns run and gun style. Q is not that fast and the Suns have several other guys who can shoot from the outside.

What the Suns lose with JJ is a half court guy who can make his own shot, play backup PG, and play good D. None of the other players are able to do all three as well. If anything, losing JJ will put even more emphasis on running.

 

[F-Dog]

The only thing that would really, really upset me at this point is if the Phoenix Suns agreed to a lesser package or worse yet JJ just signs the one-year offer and becomes an unrestricted free agent next season.

I wouldn't mind that at all, honestly. The Suns get Joe Johnson for next season (which is the season they really need him for). They'll be able to spend the LLE this year, and they'll have an entire season to figure out how to replace Joe with MLE next year.


Right now, I'm rooting hard for Steve Belkin. Worst-case for me is the Suns take the S&T--I know that it's good value and puts the Suns in good shape financially, but when are the Suns supposed to compete for a championship? Not next year, and they've got several players who are going to be significantly worse two years from now.

I'd love to see the Hawks sign Joe and dare the Suns to match. Sarver's excuse for agreeing to the S&T was that he wasn't aware of Joe's feelings, but he's made these latest threats after that situation blew up. What will Sarver's new excuse be if he doesn't match? (Joe really didn't want to play for the Suns? ) How will Sarver keep any credibility with the fans and other owners?


I'm having a hard time reconciling with some of the opinions here. What would you have said if the Suns had been given a chance to match Denver's offer to McDyess? "Let him go, we're happier with Tom Gugliotta anyway?"