Am I the only one with doubts about Warner?

[duckfallas]

Warner was like 14 - 19 with one TD! Who cares if his passes wobbled? He doesn't need to be the 1999 Warner in this offense.

The only thing that will hold Warner back is injury. He has plenty of weapons at his disposal. As for McCown, when is he going to stop moping around and start showing some of the spark that he had last season? He looked totally uninspired out there. He better get it together or he could be a real liability to this team should Warner get hurt.

 

[jstadvl]

It's

way too early to say one way or the other. I believe Warner will be fine.
The McCown bashers are all the same people that are reaming Pace because he went against second and third stringers, but won't give McCown the same due as far as his O-line protection?
Put McCown in with the 1's for a few sets. If he plays as miserable as some of you think, dump him. If not, zip the lip.
In the meantime, receivers always help their QB's look good. they're supposed to. We're ok with our current QB situation. jmo

 

[D-Dogg]

way too early to say one way or the other. I believe Warner will be fine.
The McCown bashers are all the same people that are reaming Pace because he went against second and third stringers, but won't give McCown the same due as far as his O-line protection?
Put McCown in with the 1's for a few sets. If he plays as miserable as some of you think, dump him. If not, zip the lip.
In the meantime, receivers always help their QB's look good. they're supposed to. We're ok with our current QB situation. jmo

Wrong. I'm high on Pace and low on McCown.

 

[CaptTurbo]

The McCown bashers are all the same people that are reaming Pace because he went against second and third stringers, but won't give McCown the same due as far as his O-line protection?
. jmo

Not true. Pace will help us. McCown needs to go.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Wrong. I'm high on Pace and low on McCown.

\

second that!

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Not true. Pace will help us. McCown needs to go.

Half-right.

Both Pace and McCown will help us.

 

[Totally_Red]

\

second that!

Third it! The dropoff from Berry/Okeafor to Pace is significant, but DE isn't the "quarterback" of the defense. The defense would still be pretty good without Bertrand, just not top-5 good. The offense, well, I won't go there.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

The McCown bashers are all the same people that are reaming Pace because he went against second and third stringers, but won't give McCown the same due as far as his O-line protection?
Put McCown in with the 1's for a few sets. If he plays as miserable as some of you think, dump him. If not, zip the lip.

The same argument about being surrounded by scrubs could be used for Pace considering he was teamed up on the line with former insurance salesman in Ross Kolodiesz and a practice squad players such as Antonio Smith. Unlike Josh though Pace performed well against Dallas even when surrounded by these never-will-be's. I'm still not sold on Pace though. In his short NFL career he's shown nothing more than being the defensive Damien Anderson in racking up preseason production only to do nothing in the regular season and be replace the following offseason. I hope Pace comes along but it's going to take more than some great preseason games to make me a believer.

And as far as giving Josh a go with the first team, well, we tried that experiment last year and had one of the worst offenses in the NFL and Josh was one of the lowest rated QBs in the NFL. I think it's safe to say Josh is going to struggle with whatever unit he's on because that's all he has ever done in his NFL career.

 

[40yearfan]

Fran Tarkenton "wobbled" his way to the Hall of Fame.

Vince Ferragamo had the nicest spiral ever and was a bust in both the NFL and CFL (for those who may remember).

The ball either gets there or it doesn't... it's either catchable or not... and I've never heard of any complaints from Warner's wideouts.

Anyone remember Billy Kilmer? Pretty effective QB whose passes looked like they were being thrown by a teen age girl.

 

[Russ Smith]

Anyone remember Billy Kilmer? Pretty effective QB whose passes looked like they were being thrown by a teen age girl.

God I hated that guy and that team. Every year they'd be full of over the hill guys and you'd think they would just fall apart and there they would be in the playoffs again.

The only guy I hated more than Kilmer on that team was ex Card CB Pat "cheapshot" Fischer.

And that RB Mike Thomas, he just killed the Cards for years.

 

[abomb]

Put McCown in with the 1's for a few sets. If he plays as miserable as some of you think, dump him. If not, zip the lip.
In the meantime, receivers always help their QB's look good. they're supposed to. We're ok with our current QB situation. jmo

Didnt Jesus McCown have the majority of last season with the first team O? How'd that work out for us? Oh yeah, more fumbles than I can count and a doe-eyed "leader" back there throwing picks and getting our WR killed.

A-Bomb

 

[CardinalLaw]

Didnt Jesus McCown have the majority of last season with the first team O? How'd that work out for us? Oh yeah, more fumbles than I can count and a doe-eyed "leader" back there throwing picks and getting our WR killed.

A-Bomb

Oh but, [insert exuses here] is the only response you will recieve. Its funny the Josh lovers on the other board, seem to not recall last year either. He won 6 games and thats all that matters. He didn't contibute points in probaly half of them, but that was because the WR's didn't get seperation, or the Emmitt couldn't run the ball, or they wouldn't open the playbook for Josh.

 

[JeffGollin]

I disagree with statements that "McCown has to go."

Not that I think he's done anything to make any of us comfortable with him as a backup.

Thing of it is - Unless a guy is a real negative force in the locker room, you shouldn't let anyone go unless you have someone equally as good or better to step in and replace him.
At present, Navarre hasn't shown me he can consistently perform better than McCown (And we have no one behind Navarre).

Which means: If we were to release or trade McCown, we'd be in worse shape without him than we would with him.

For the present moment, therefore, we should accept the fact that McCown will be our backup for the duration of this season and focus on things he should be doing to become a better QB. (If that were to happen, the "McCown must go" mantra would, as a result, become fainter and fainter.

 

[spanky1]

I disagree with statements that "McCown has to go."

Not that I think he's done anything to make any of us comfortable with him as a backup.

Thing of it is - Unless a guy is a real negative force in the locker room, you shouldn't let anyone go unless you have someone equally as good or better to step in and replace him.
At present, Navarre hasn't shown me he can consistently perform better than McCown (And we have no one behind Navarre).

Which means: If we were to release or trade McCown, we'd be in worse shape without him than we would with him.

For the present moment, therefore, we should accept the fact that McCown will be our backup for the duration of this season and focus on things he should be doing to become a better QB. (If that were to happen, the "McCown must go" mantra would, as a result, become fainter and fainter.

Jeff,

Another very rational viewpoint but I suspect k9 will find a way to tell you that "this is crazy talk".

 

[Doc Cardinal]

Navarre and McCown are what they are....back ups.

Will they develop into starting NFL QBs?

The jury is of course still out but some have already tried and convicted Josh. As I look around the league I'm not that impressed by back up QB's. At least Josh didn't line up behind the RG like the Saints QB!

Navarre also has potential....but....I'd like to see a QB drafted in 2006.

 

[40yearfan]

God I hated that guy and that team. Every year they'd be full of over the hill guys and you'd think they would just fall apart and there they would be in the playoffs again.

The only guy I hated more than Kilmer on that team was ex Card CB Pat "cheapshot" Fischer.

And that RB Mike Thomas, he just killed the Cards for years.

Hey, I played basketball with Fischer and even went to one of his parties. Man, those were the days of wide open wildass party guys in the NFL. No goodie twoshoes back then.

 

[daves]

Like I said, the to me the intriguing thing about King last year was that he was a veteran who was supposed to know where to throw the ball. he certainly did more than Josh....

Huh? Are you saying that King "certainly" knew where to throw the ball better than Josh? How do you reconcile that with the results?

[SIZE=3]Player		Att	Comp	Yds	Comp %	Yds/Att	TD	TD %	INT	INT %	Long	Sack/Lost	Rating
Josh McCown	408	233	2511	57.1	6.2	11	2.7	10	2.5	48	31/263		74.1
Shaun King	84	47	502	56.0	6.0	1	1.2	4	4.8	40	6/42		57.7
John Navarre	40	18	168	45.0	4.2	1	2.5	4	10.0	33	1/8		25.8[/SIZE]

King's numbers are worse in every single category than McCown's, including wins and losses (6-7 for McCown, 0-2 for King).

Just keepin' it real....

...dave

 

[Russ Smith]

Huh? Are you saying that King "certainly" knew where to throw the ball better than Josh? How do you reconcile that with the results?

[SIZE=3]Player		Att	Comp	Yds	Comp %	Yds/Att	TD	TD %	INT	INT %	Long	Sack/Lost	Rating
Josh McCown	408	233	2511	57.1	6.2	11	2.7	10	2.5	48	31/263		74.1
Shaun King	84	47	502	56.0	6.0	1	1.2	4	4.8	40	6/42		57.7
John Navarre	40	18	168	45.0	4.2	1	2.5	4	10.0	33	1/8		25.8[/SIZE]

King's numbers are worse in every single category than McCown's, including wins and losses (6-7 for McCown, 0-2 for King).

Just keepin' it real....

...dave

I'm saying that King was supposed to know where to go with the ball more than Josh and personally I think he did understand the offense better than Josh, he was just so horrible at executing it that it looked ugly.

Maybe I'm misremembering but it seemed to me in most cases King's picks were just flat out horrible throws, like the one against Carolina where he wasn't within 10 yards of the intended receiver. Most of Josh's shortcomings were either not seeing something (like a wide open millionaire WR doing jumping jacks) or thinking he saw something that wasn't really there.

I remember saying last year if we could put Kings' head on Josh' body we'd have a reasonable QB. I think King SAW what was going on, he just wasn't physically capable of taking advantage of it.

 

[moklerman]

Granted Warner started off slowly in this game but I would think Cardinals fans would be nothing short of excited with the numbers he put up with 2 starters missing from the line, the top wr out, and all of them learning to work together in a new offense.

I mean, the first stringers were up 10-0 through most of the first half. I haven't followed the Cardinals real closely over the years but this has to be one of the more promising opening preseason games ever for Arizona.

Warner looking shaky on a few throws is true but how is a 79% completion percentage, whether he looked good doing it or not, something that a Cardinals fan isn't thrilled about? 8 yards per attempt, almost 11 per completion, no interceptions, no sacks. Jeez, everyone should be brimming with optimism if you ask me.

 

[Sandan]

I was a little concerned until I listened to Bill Leewis talking about the catch by Fitz.

To me it looke like a pass thrown behind the intended WR who made a circus catch to make up for the QB.

In reality it apparently was very different.

According to BL, it was a broken play designed to go to BJ. Warner saw BJ was covered and found Fitz for the deep ball. Again according to BL, the ball was behind Fitz on purpose as if he had lead Fitz [at least] one of teothings would have happened, possibly both

1. Fitz would have been creamed, to quote and might not have been practicing the next day
2. The ball would have been picked off

So, again according to BL, Kurt put the ball where Fitz had a chance but nobody else did.

 

[Russ Smith]

I was a little concerned until I listened to Bill Leewis talking about the catch by Fitz.

To me it looke like a pass thrown behind the intended WR who made a circus catch to make up for the QB.

In reality it apparently was very different.

According to BL, it was a broken play designed to go to BJ. Warner saw BJ was covered and found Fitz for the deep ball. Again according to BL, the ball was behind Fitz on purpose as if he had lead Fitz [at least] one of teothings would have happened, possibly both

1. Fitz would have been creamed, to quote and might not have been practicing the next day
2. The ball would have been picked off

So, again according to BL, Kurt put the ball where Fitz had a chance but nobody else did.

Someone else said the day after the game that Warner admitted the ball was thrown to BJ and overthrown. But watching the replay I had the same impression Lewis did, that Warner threw for Fitz and threw behind him because there was no defense there so it was either a catch by Fitz, or incomplete, with no threat of a pick.

 

[Russ Smith]

KOC is the one who posted it.

"Great catch," Warner said. "Kind of a broken-down play. I was trying to put it out in a position to hit B.J. (Bryant Johnson) and Larry just made a great play on it, but then to have the awareness to get up and get in the end zone, just a great individual play."

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/car...5cards0815.html

 

[CardinalLaw]

I was a little concerned until I listened to Bill Leewis talking about the catch by Fitz.

To me it looke like a pass thrown behind the intended WR who made a circus catch to make up for the QB.

In reality it apparently was very different.

According to BL, it was a broken play designed to go to BJ. Warner saw BJ was covered and found Fitz for the deep ball. Again according to BL, the ball was behind Fitz on purpose as if he had lead Fitz [at least] one of teothings would have happened, possibly both

1. Fitz would have been creamed, to quote and might not have been practicing the next day
2. The ball would have been picked off

So, again according to BL, Kurt put the ball where Fitz had a chance but nobody else did.

FYI, Kurt has already said that it was intended for Johnson. It is preseason this is where they got to finetune the timing and routes in gametime situations. I am not worried at all had Kurt got that ball in there for Johnson it would have been a TD also.


This was from the piece I read.

[font=verdana,arial,helvetica]"Great catch," Warner said. "Kind of a broken-down play. I was trying to put it out in a position to hit B.J. (Bryant Johnson) and Larry just made a great play on it, but then to have the awareness to get up and get in the end zone, just a great individual play."[/font]

 

[Sandan]

I have a couple of questions/comments about that comment from Kurt.

iirc BJ was nowhere near Fitz, so if it was overthrown, it was by a mile.

Second, this may well be disinformation

 

[JC_AZ]

Patience is warranted...

Too bad Jeff Blake is officially off the market now...

relax dudes... one half of a FIRST game is not what to base a season on...taking Quan out of the mix definitely affects the timing and the consistency...wait until the preseason is a LITTLE further along before we start grasping like the Bears did....

Mike, I TIVO'd it also and saw the same things you did. However, I think it will get much better. If he stays healthy, this could be a very exciting season!

And after seeing Joshs' performance, I'm ready to make Navarre the backup and try and find a new third-stringer. JMHO.