Amare disagrees with Shaq

[dreamcastrocks]

The refs did not make us lose. In fact, I thought overall it was pretty even.

Here's something I don't know has been mentioned or not because I couldn't stomach being in here directly after the loss.

Grant Hill signaled for a timeout right after Ginobili hit the last shot, and the refs didn't call a technical.

 

[Mulli]

Who is 3D?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Who is 3D?

Boris Diaw.

His number is 3.

 

[nashman]

Or how about Tim's big three when he clearly traveled? Pulled the old Marion shuffle of the feet, but they would never call that against the Sterns right. DCR again its not pretty even when they sit your stars with cheap BS fouls so that the Spurs could get back into it, they were down like 16 and would have got worse...but bam what do you know lets call some fouls and sit some stars, last year all over again.

 

[S_Nash]

Doris Day Diaw?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Or how about Tim's big three when he clearly traveled? Pulled the old Marion shuffle of the feet, but they would never call that against the Sterns right. DCR again its not pretty even when they sit your stars with cheap BS fouls so that the Spurs could get back into it, they were down like 16 and would have got worse...but bam what do you know lets call some fouls and sit some stars, last year all over again.

come on nashman.

Do you want me to give you 10 other reasons for this loss for the Suns other than the refs, or do you want to take the easy way out?

I could do it in about 2 minutes.

 

[nashman]

I didn't say the loss was on the refs, but to say Shaq playing only 5 min in the entire first half and Amare in foul trouble all game long, many of which on both were flops or ticky tack calls had nothing to do with us losing is nieve.

 

[nashman]

The game would have been a blowout had we been allowed to play with the same officiating as the Spurs get!

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Shame.

 

[nashman]

If Amare or anyone on our team whined as much to the ref as Duncan they would be T'ed up in seconds yet the Spurs can bitch and complain to no end and never a T. Yeah seems real even in the officiating to me.

 

[nashman]

SHame? So you don't think it affected us? Seriously?

 

[LakeShowMan]

Those three early fouls hurt, but they were all fouls from my perspective. Calls aren't considered even if the ref calls three fouls on Duncan because they called them on Shaq. Even reffing means that each team gets questionable calls, and that they call it the same way on both sides.

Look, the fact is, fans of a team see games completely different then a impartial observer. I am not able to see a Laker game unbiasedly for the most part. On close calls, I see the Lakers side all the time. I am sure you, and almost every other Suns fan see Suns' game the same way. Also, I will say I have seen games where the Suns have received the short end of the stick on calls (the Detroit game earlier this year). However, from an impartial observer, that game was called pretty fairly Saturday. JMHO.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

SHame? So you don't think it affected us? Seriously?

Not negatively, not really. It was pretty even Just because Shaq picked up 3 early fouls, doesn't mean that he didn't deserve any of them.

 

[nowagimp]

Guys, not to be 'that guy' or anything, but the refs were not the reason you lost on Saturday. I hate the Spurs as much as anyone, and feel the refs give them the benefit of calls more often than not. With that said, the calls seemed to be pretty even throughout. The only thing I thought was weird was that Timmy was pretty demonstrative when he whined about calls, and never even sniffed a tech.

There were questionable calls both ways, and it really didn't seem like the way the calls were made gave either team an advantage. With that said, it took them a borderline miracle shot (Tim's first 3 of the season) just to send the game to double overtime. I still think the Suns are the better team, and will win the series. Hopefuly for your sake you can finish it off before game 7, because it will be very hard to get calls in a game 7 on the road in SA.

The refs blew calls both ways, but the blown calls on the suns put their big guys in foul trouble. The makeup call on diaw(next play after the ref called a bad foul on TD when defending amare) with the suns up 16 in the 2nd was completely bogus and sat him down with amare and shaq already sitting for fouls. Pop will take that tradeoff every time. This paved the way for hack a skinner by the spurs and their closing of the halftime defecit. Skinner was terrible on both ends, looked like he was sleepwalking. When refs blow calls and then award makeups, the extra consequence of putting the opponent in foul trouble on the makeup call(3 fouls on diaw in 2nd) means that trading bogus foul calls is not equal treatment. Indeed, sitting key players down is much more impacting than two foul shots or possession.

Amares statements appear to be damage control, he obviously believes in retaliation by the league for criticizing officals who "should have seen those flops"(implied, not quoted). Maybe he finally figured out that all those techincals at the end of the regualr season might have been connected to criticizing officials.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Once they got into the penalty, they should have subbed Skinner right back out. How funny would that have been? That's what I was thinking to myself anyway. Watch them foul intentionally 2 times, for no reason.

 

[LakeShowMan]

The refs blew calls both ways, but the blown calls on the suns put their big guys in foul trouble. The makeup call on diaw(next play after the ref called a bad foul on TD when defending amare) with the suns up 16 in the 2nd was completely bogus and sat him down with amare and shaq already sitting for fouls. Pop will take that tradeoff every time. This paved the way for hack a skinner by the spurs and their closing of the halftime defecit. Skinner was terrible on both ends, looked like he was sleepwalking. When refs blow calls and then award makeups, the extra consequence of putting the opponent in foul trouble on the makeup call(3 fouls on diaw in 2nd) means that trading bogus foul calls is not equal treatment. Indeed, sitting key players down is much more impacting than two foul shots or possession.

Amares statements appear to be damage control, he obviously believes in retaliation by the league for criticizing officals who "should have seen those flops"(implied, not quoted). Maybe he finally figured out that all those techincals at the end of the regualr season might have been connected to criticizing officials.

Makeup calls are a part of NBA basketball, you know that and I know that.

If you believe that the refs were the deciding factor in the game, all I can say is I disagree. There is no way I can convince you otherwise. I will say, much more important than calls, is the Suns inability to defend the pick and roll, plus some very questionable coaching decisions.

I'll tell you what I thought was a HUGE mistake, when the Spurs started the Hack-a-Shaq, Pop forced D'Antoni into a decision and he made the incorrect one. Hack-a Shaq almost never works. I know Shaq is horrible @ the line, and he missed the first two, however he usually ends up hitting at least half of them (also, even when he misses the rebound is usually tough to handle and it leads to far more offensive rebounds then a normal FT miss). Plus, with free throws all the time, it enables Shaq's team to always be prepared for half court defense. Pop essentially got D'Antoni to take out his best post defender and best rebounder for a very important 4 minute stretch in a close game(6 min mark to the 2 min mark), just because D'Antoni was scared to trade one point for a possible 2. It is a huge mistake in my eyes, and was much more of a deciding factor than the refs were.

 

[Renz]

When the Spurs needed a score at the end of the game, they got it. When PHX needed a stop at the end of the game, they couldn't get it. That's the story of Game 1.

 

[cobbler]

The refs did not make us lose. In fact, I thought overall it was pretty even.

Here's something I don't know has been mentioned or not because I couldn't stomach being in here directly after the loss.

Grant Hill signaled for a timeout right after Ginobili hit the last shot, and the refs didn't call a technical.

I saw that as well. They definetly gave grant a break there. With 1.8 left it wasnt a huge deal....but could have been if a miracle shot was made

 

[Mulli]

When the Spurs needed a score at the end of the game, they got it. When PHX needed a stop at the end of the game, they couldn't get it. That's the story of Game 1.

Yup. Seem to recall open threes for the Spurs for almost the whole second half.

 

[95pro]

yep. no travel call on TD when he made his 3pointer.

yep. no T called on hill when he signalled for a timeout. he quickly realized they were out of them.

 

[Maligzar]

SHame? So you don't think it affected us? Seriously?

No, it's just shameful that here we are again instead of placing the blame where it belongs on Amare's blown coverage on Finley at the end (yeah, way to stay with Uberto when they needed 3 to tie big guy) or on Steve breaking a cardinal rule of not leaving ANYONE open, especially a guy like Tim Duncan, we instead have fans (again) with their ridiculous tinfoil hat theories on how the Spurs are a favored team.

Just like last year where instead of blaming the Suns for losing game 1, and blaming Amare and Boris for breaking a cardinal rule and getting off the bench DURING AN ALTERCATION. (that bold is for the people still clinging to the "but Duncan left the bench too" whine) we instead get to hear all the fans piss and moan about the refs and play the victim again.

Yes, it's shameful. Have some respect for yourself, the team, and the game. The Spurs beat us fair and square. We blew at least 5 chances to put them away. Blame Boris for not helping on Manu, blame Amare for not switching on Finley, blame Nash for leaving Duncan wide open. Just stop blaming the refs because yeah, it's shameful.

 

[cobbler]

Or how about Tim's big three when he clearly traveled? Pulled the old Marion shuffle of the feet, but they would never call that against the Sterns right. DCR again its not pretty even when they sit your stars with cheap BS fouls so that the Spurs could get back into it, they were down like 16 and would have got worse...but bam what do you know lets call some fouls and sit some stars, last year all over again.

Dont you ever get tired of complainiing? With all the blatant traveling that goes on in th NBA you expect them to call that? Come on. Comments like these are why the suns and their fan base are known as whiners.

 

[nowagimp]

Once they got into the penalty, they should have subbed Skinner right back out. How funny would that have been? That's what I was thinking to myself anyway. Watch them foul intentionally 2 times, for no reason.

If would have been funny if they could have subbled someone in who could guard oberto, but with diaw, shaq and amare sitting in foul trouble, its kind of hard to sub for skinner. I've always hated the trading bad calls theory, it leads to foul trouble, very ironic(hypocritical) with all the no calls out there. the replay on the diaw call was ridiculous, barely touched him and the whistle was blown before the ball even arrived in the general vicinity. After seeing that display of "official justice", it occured to me that David King, er Don Stern, has a funny way of applying justice in the NBA. I guess it wouldnt have been a very good game if the suns bigs didnt sit down with foul trouble, manu was 1-6 and parker was 3-8 at that time, and the suns were up 16 when the suns bigs all went to the bench in foul trouble. Interesting note, Tim Duncan scored 20pts in the first half, but zero points when shaq was in the game. Unfortuantely shaq was in the game a whole 5 mins in the first half. Foul trouble for the suns bigs is obviously POPS wet dream, the key to winning. This also means that foul calls are the key to the spurs victory hopes.

 

[cobbler]

I didn't say the loss was on the refs, but to say Shaq playing only 5 min in the entire first half and Amare in foul trouble all game long, many of which on both were flops or ticky tack calls had nothing to do with us losing is nieve.

The game would have been a blowout had we been allowed to play with the same officiating as the Spurs get!

Huh? Make up your mind. You totally contradict yourself.

Maybe the players are taking on the fans like yours attitude and instead of looking in the mirrior and doing something about their bad decisions and plays in the clutch simply blame the refs or NBA office and do nothing to fix it. And thus, the cycle continues.

 

[Rab]

I finally got around to watching most of the game. I was unable to watch it on Saturday.

I love the Suns to death, but this is what is so frustrating to me about being a Suns fan. It seems like about everytime they have a chance to stomp on the throat of a team or rival when the games mean the most, they are unable to do it. Whether it was Game 1 in this series, or Game 5 last year without Amare & Diaw, the Suns are always right there ready to deliver the knockout blow. For whatever reason, they're never able to do it, and it's usually the other team who's left standing in the end while the Suns search for answers.

The officiating excuse is old guys. I really didn't see much evidence of any favoritism, or extremely one sided officiating. It's time to stop blaming officials. How about putting some responsibility on the players. No one wants to think the Spurs are perhaps the better team in this series. No one wants to give credit to them. We want to dismiss any notion that the Spurs outplayed the Suns when it mattered the most. Unfortunately, excuses has been the theme of this franchise for the last 4 years, and it's grown so tired.