Amare disagrees with Shaq

[cobbler]

If Amare or anyone on our team whined as much to the ref as Duncan they would be T'ed up in seconds yet the Spurs can bitch and complain to no end and never a T. Yeah seems real even in the officiating to me.

You obviously watch with rose colored glasses. Do you ever watch Nash? He complains every bit as much as Duncan.

 

[cobbler]

No, it's just shameful that here we are again instead of placing the blame where it belongs on Amare's blown coverage on Finley at the end (yeah, way to stay with Uberto when they needed 3 to tie big guy) or on Steve breaking a cardinal rule of not leaving ANYONE open, especially a guy like Tim Duncan, we instead have fans (again) with their ridiculous tinfoil hat theories on how the Spurs are a favored team.

Just like last year where instead of blaming the Suns for losing game 1, and blaming Amare and Boris for breaking a cardinal rule and getting off the bench DURING AN ALTERCATION. (that bold is for the people still clinging to the "but Duncan left the bench too" whine) we instead get to hear all the fans piss and moan about the refs and play the victim again.

Yes, it's shameful. Have some respect for yourself, the team, and the game. The Spurs beat us fair and square. We blew at least 5 chances to put them away. Blame Boris for not helping on Manu, blame Amare for not switching on Finley, blame Nash for leaving Duncan wide open. Just stop blaming the refs because yeah, it's shameful.

Well put!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I didn't say the loss was on the refs, but to say Shaq playing only 5 min in the entire first half and Amare in foul trouble all game long, many of which on both were flops or ticky tack calls had nothing to do with us losing is nieve.

what about amare's stupid reach in after the entire rest of the team was back on defense? let's understand that some of the fouls were just stupid. amare picks up stupid fouls. that one the dumbest. no, no, maybe the charge at the end of the game was the dumbest b/c all he had to do was dump the ball to shaq for the dunk and the game was over. or just pull up. anything but get that foul. stupidity.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Dont you ever get tired of complainiing? With all the blatant traveling that goes on in th NBA you expect them to call that? Come on. Comments like these are why the suns and their fan base are known as whiners.

I'm a suns fan and I'm tired of all the complaining. Were there bad calls? Sure. Did it affect the game? Of course. Were they all against the suns? You're crazy if you think so.

As others have said this game was called fairly well. Suns fans are too quick to pull the ref bias card because of past history but we just have to realize there is no such thing as a perfectly refereed game.

 

[ambchang_]

It's refreshing to actually see some Suns fans admitting that there were many blown chances in Game 1. The game was essentially evenly called. The Spurs played on with their only effective PG fouled out, and yet still was able to orchestrate the offense without him for the final shot.

Stoudemire was out of position on defense the entire game, Shaq didn't play aggressive defense for fear of getting fouled out, Diaw and Barbosa put up shots in the final possessions of regulation and 1OT are all mistakes that cost the Suns. I couldn't for the life of me figure out why they would not run a pick and roll between Nash and Stoudemire to close out the game, that is their bread and butter move!

The game was as evenly called as possible, but that doesn't stop someone from whining.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Makeup calls are a part of NBA basketball, you know that and I know that.

If you believe that the refs were the deciding factor in the game, all I can say is I disagree. There is no way I can convince you otherwise. I will say, much more important than calls, is the Suns inability to defend the pick and roll, plus some very questionable coaching decisions.

I'll tell you what I thought was a HUGE mistake, when the Spurs started the Hack-a-Shaq, Pop forced D'Antoni into a decision and he made the incorrect one. Hack-a Shaq almost never works. I know Shaq is horrible @ the line, and he missed the first two, however he usually ends up hitting at least half of them (also, even when he misses the rebound is usually tough to handle and it leads to far more offensive rebounds then a normal FT miss). Plus, with free throws all the time, it enables Shaq's team to always be prepared for half court defense. Pop essentially got D'Antoni to take out his best post defender and best rebounder for a very important 4 minute stretch in a close game(6 min mark to the 2 min mark), just because D'Antoni was scared to trade one point for a possible 2. It is a huge mistake in my eyes, and was much more of a deciding factor than the refs were.

agreed. dantoni got outcoached. at almost every turn in the second half. anytime he had a decision to make it seemed he chose wrong. he, as much as amare for stupid play, has to redeem himself somehow in the next game. i place the blame for this game squarely at dantoni's and amare's feet.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's refreshing to actually see some Suns fans admitting that there were many blown chances in Game 1. The game was essentially evenly called. The Spurs played on with their only effective PG fouled out, and yet still was able to orchestrate the offense without him for the final shot.

Stoudemire was out of position on defense the entire game, Shaq didn't play aggressive defense for fear of getting fouled out, Diaw and Barbosa put up shots in the final possessions of regulation and 1OT are all mistakes that cost the Suns. I couldn't for the life of me figure out why they would not run a pick and roll between Nash and Stoudemire to close out the game, that is their bread and butter move!

The game was as evenly called as possible, but that doesn't stop someone from whining.

the only call that i'd like to see changed in the next game is the BS clear-out that kurt pulls to free up parker for a completely uncontested layup. the spurs got away with it three times and finally got nailed on it the last time, but it took boris literally throwing himself on the ground to get the call. when the commentators called up the previous play it was obvious that kurt just kept running in as a fullback throwing moving screens to free up parker. i would hope that the suns staff saw that replay and sends video of ALL FOUR plays to the league to put the refs on notice.

NO ONE, absolutely NO ONE in the NBA gets that wide open repeatedly. it looked so odd to me that i was glad the television guys caught it. if we get nailed with that one repeatedly again i'll lose my mind.

that's my only commentary on the refs. and i don't think it's why we lost the game.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Nashman, were you saying the refs gave us Game 1 against Dallas two years ago when Boris clearly traveled on his turnaround jumper over Stackhouse?

 

[Treesquid PhD]

I have zero issues with the no call travel at the end of the game. I do not want refs calling incidental travels or fouls at the end on either side.

The Suns will win game 2, I am sure the Spurs fans like Cobbler will come to the board whining about calls if they lose because fans always think they are getting screwed for real this time.

 

[DeAnna]

I couldn't for the life of me figure out why they would not run a pick and roll between Nash and Stoudemire to close out the game, that is their bread and butter move!.

That last play of regulation Nash and Diaw ran it and Diaw was on his way for an open basket but Nash kicked it out to Barbs instead, who missed his shot.

 

[cobbler]

I have zero issues with the no call travel at the end of the game. I do not want refs calling incidental travels or fouls at the end on either side.

The Suns will win game 2, I am sure the Spurs fans like Cobbler will come to the board whining about calls if they lose because fans always think they are getting screwed for real this time.

First off, you should get your facts straight. I do not like the spurs. I just call it like i see it. Second, You will NEVER hear me blame the refs for a loss by my team (lakers). Yes, I may comment from time to time on a bad call here or there but i have never and will never blame the refs for the outcome of ANY game. It's just a losers way of taking the blame off themselves. Nothing more.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

First off, you should get your facts straight. I do not like the spurs. I just call it like i see it. Second, You will NEVER hear me blame the refs for a loss by my team (lakers). Yes, I may comment from time to time on a bad call here or there but i have never and will never blame the refs for the outcome of ANY game. It's just a losers way taking the blame off themselves. Nothing more.

Sorry Laker trash, my applogies.

 

[cobbler]

That last play of regulation Nash and Diaw ran it and Diaw was on his way for an open basket but Nash kicked it out to Barbs instead, who missed his shot.

I personally thought Nash should have taken the jumper there at the free throw line. Come on, would you rather see Nash taking the clutch shot or LB? Bad decision on Nash's part. I've said it many times, Nash need to be a little more selfish in the closing mins.

 

[cobbler]

Sorry Laker trash, my applogies.

Classy!!!! What exactly is a applogy anyway?

 

[95pro]

people say 3D was open. he was open from our perspective.

to nash, the passing lanes were closed by the two spurs players.

thats my 2cents on that.

 

[jandaman]

Nah, Diaw was open. he had a clear path to the rim, the Spurs players were heading towards the perimeter or Shaq's direction, momentum is shifted that way, away from Diaw.

Nash, I think made the wrong pass, he had 2 options, a cutting Barbosa or Diaw with an open lane... but he probably hesitated on Diaw, due to Diaw not usually being the aggressor to the rim.... But Diaw clearly looked to have the open path...

 

[DeAnna]

people say 3D was open. he was open from our perspective. to nash, the passing lanes were closed by the two spurs players. thats my 2cents on that.

He was in front of his defender, facing the basket. That's as open as you get in the playoffs.

I know Nash wanted his good buddy Barbs to be the hero, figuring if it didn't work, there was always OT.

 

[nowagimp]

Makeup calls are a part of NBA basketball, you know that and I know that.

If you believe that the refs were the deciding factor in the game, all I can say is I disagree. There is no way I can convince you otherwise. I will say, much more important than calls, is the Suns inability to defend the pick and roll, plus some very questionable coaching decisions.

I'll tell you what I thought was a HUGE mistake, when the Spurs started the Hack-a-Shaq, Pop forced D'Antoni into a decision and he made the incorrect one. Hack-a Shaq almost never works. I know Shaq is horrible @ the line, and he missed the first two, however he usually ends up hitting at least half of them (also, even when he misses the rebound is usually tough to handle and it leads to far more offensive rebounds then a normal FT miss). Plus, with free throws all the time, it enables Shaq's team to always be prepared for half court defense. Pop essentially got D'Antoni to take out his best post defender and best rebounder for a very important 4 minute stretch in a close game(6 min mark to the 2 min mark), just because D'Antoni was scared to trade one point for a possible 2. It is a huge mistake in my eyes, and was much more of a deciding factor than the refs were.

1) if they are gonna give a make up call in the second quarter, why diaw, why not someone with less than 2 fouls, Duncan only got his 2nd on the blown call on amare.

2) success of hack a shack: speculation, and shaq had 5 fouls, his defense was limited by his foul trouble. Shaq was actually letting manu drive the lane as he didnt want to commit his 6th. If he fouls out, the spurs go to TD every time down in the last few minutes, game over anyway.

As far as the deciding factor, yes it was foul trouble on the suns bigs. Anyone can see the effect was the best thing the spurs did, draw fouls. Once that happened, the lane was open, even with shaq in there, he was afraid to get his 6th. Hey maybe this is the way the NBA was meant to be, games deterimined by foul trouble, and the home teams fans loved it. Anyone who thinks manu and TP suddenly were hitting due to better execution is fooling themselves, they took a ton of partly contested layups. It was that way last year against the spurs, whoever got in foul trouble(TD, or amare), their team lost.


At the end of the game KT cleared out diaw twice in a row to get free layups for TP, actuallly grabbed him by the arm when he went to defend the lane area on the drive by TP. They called the second one, but the first one was a free go ahead bucket. Even the commentators mentioned it, a clearout by KT(looking more like an offensive lineman) to create a free layup. Yeah the suns could have won any number of different ways, but the spurs comeback was just a product of the foul trouble. And padding foul trouble with makeup calls just makes it all a mess. There are too many blown calls in the NBA to accept the current officiating system, its obvious the old guys just cant keep up with the action. The game has become too complicated to officiate without camera replay. I suspect there will be more of the same as these playoffs proceed.

 

[Bayless2Budinger]

Sorry Laker trash, my applogies.

You sir are my favorite poster.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

Nash having the shot clock expired killed this team as well.

 

[Sundance]

There are too many blown calls in the NBA to accept the current officiating system, its obvious the old guys just cant keep up with the action. The game has become too complicated to officiate without camera replay. I suspect there will be more of the same as these playoffs proceed.

Yep, the old refs, at the very least, need to be shown the door. Like NBA players, there comes a time when age is a factor, and they need to be taken out to pasture. There are simply too many refs running around past their expiration date.

 

[cobbler]

Sorry Laker trash, my applogies.

You sir are my favorite poster.

Jealousy is such a bitter trait. Hating on people just because they support a team that has had more success than your team... Wait, let me rephrase that... Any success. Well, it's just not becomming.

 

[Phade]

lol @ people bragging about their team on a suns forums.. holy pathetic..

 

[LakeShowMan]

1) if they are gonna give a make up call in the second quarter, why diaw, why not someone with less than 2 fouls, Duncan only got his 2nd on the blown call on amare.

2) success of hack a shack: speculation, and shaq had 5 fouls, his defense was limited by his foul trouble. Shaq was actually letting manu drive the lane as he didnt want to commit his 6th. If he fouls out, the spurs go to TD every time down in the last few minutes, game over anyway.

As far as the deciding factor, yes it was foul trouble on the suns bigs. Anyone can see the effect was the best thing the spurs did, draw fouls. Once that happened, the lane was open, even with shaq in there, he was afraid to get his 6th. Hey maybe this is the way the NBA was meant to be, games deterimined by foul trouble, and the home teams fans loved it. Anyone who thinks manu and TP suddenly were hitting due to better execution is fooling themselves, they took a ton of partly contested layups. It was that way last year against the spurs, whoever got in foul trouble(TD, or amare), their team lost.


At the end of the game KT cleared out diaw twice in a row to get free layups for TP, actuallly grabbed him by the arm when he went to defend the lane area on the drive by TP. They called the second one, but the first one was a free go ahead bucket. Even the commentators mentioned it, a clearout by KT(looking more like an offensive lineman) to create a free layup. Yeah the suns could have won any number of different ways, but the spurs comeback was just a product of the foul trouble. And padding foul trouble with makeup calls just makes it all a mess. There are too many blown calls in the NBA to accept the current officiating system, its obvious the old guys just cant keep up with the action. The game has become too complicated to officiate without camera replay. I suspect there will be more of the same as these playoffs proceed.

Well foul trouble is part of the game. Does it suck for the Suns that Shaq got into early foul trouble? Yes. Were the fouls bad calls? I didn't see any that were.

Foul trouble is a factor in any basketball game. I do not remember the specific foul your talking about against Diaw, but makeup fouls have been a part of basketball as long as I can remember.

I believe the Suns decisions had a much bigger impact than foul trouble did. You obviously don't agree.

AS for Hack-a-Shaq, as Laker fan, I can honestly say I never remember it working against us. Teams did it, and sometimes made the game a little closer, but it never lost us a game. In fact, I was happy every time somone resorted to it against us. IMO, it was a huge mistake to let Pop dictate the Suns gameplan in that situation. It was a bad coaching move.

 

[Bayless2Budinger]

Jealousy is such a bitter trait. Hating on people just because they support a team that has had more success than your team... Wait, let me rephrase that... Any success. Well, it's just not becomming.

Why would I be jealous of a team that has lost two straight playoff series against us?