Amare Out Four Months

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The coaching staff is confident about the remaining group of players.
What they need is the supportment of the fans not the opposite.

They go out there and try to win games. That is what they get paid for.
We can easily for example take it with the Lakers.
They got only one All-Star and no MVP on their team.
And they (Laker fans) are confident about making the playoffs.

the lakers played us close last year. and that was WITH amare.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not to be an ass but we've all mentioned our surprise at the quality team Mullins has assembled... they may beat us.

don't think you're being an ass at all, i agree with you.

 

[Chaz]

We had a great season last year but at this same time last year we were wondering if the Suns would make the playoffs.


Amare sure drew a lot of defensive attention but I think the system will still work. In the regular season the lack of a real strong inside game is not as critical. I think much of their success will depend on how well guys like Jones and Diaw can rebound the ball. I think with House, Bell, and Jones they have enough guys that can shoot.

 

[King A]

the lakers played us close last year. and that was WITH amare.

We went 4-0 and i don't think the Lakers necessarily got better.

Ok, new coach, but Kwame has yet to achieve what Caron Butler has done.
Mihm had an extraordenary good season what will be hard to repeat since the triangle doesn't favor him that much
And McKie is a poor man's Harper who was a said to be a poor man's Jordan.

But hey they have still Brian Cook and Smush Parker on their roster...

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Maybe we can think of it sort of like cancer. In the old days, cancer had be pretty well developed before it was found, and then it was very difficult to get rid of all of it through the treatments available. Nowadays, early detection has gotten so sophisticated that it's often possible for patients to experience a full recovery, because the problem isn't nearly as large by the time it is addressed. I know some cancer survivors for whom the disease really is just a memory, because they caught it early and got it completely dealt with.

So let's hope it's like that.

I talked to my dad who spoke with some ortho surgeon friends of his over lunch today. From what he said, that is basically what it is now.

Penny and Swann had their microfracture surgeries when it first happened. That was like 6-8 years ago, which is huge in terms of medical advancements. Microfracture is no longer a new idea, it is becoming a normal thing.

There wasn't even a hole in Amare's cartalige. There is just a dent in it. The microfractures will allow scar tissue to form over it, hopefully preventing it from becomming worse.

Like your cancer example, they caught this at the very very earliest stage. It isn't like most of the bad cases where everything is already gone, and the scar tissue has to serve as a replacement. The scar tissue in Amare's knee will just be to fortify the existing stuff.

I guess the people he talked to (who just heard about things through the grapevine) didn't think that Amare would lose much, as long as he rehabs right.

 

[Chaplin]

My question has been about the actual cartilidge in the knee. Unlike most of the other players that have had this surgery done, Amare actually HAS cartilidge, and apparently healthy cartilidge, on the knee. Kidd, Hardaway, Webber... They had no cartilidge at all--that's where the "bone on bone" thing came from. Amare isn't in that situation at all it appears.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

My question has been about the actual cartilidge in the knee. Unlike most of the other players that have had this surgery done, Amare actually HAS cartilidge, and apparently healthy cartilidge, on the knee. Kidd, Hardaway, Webber... They had no cartilidge at all--that's where the "bone on bone" thing came from. Amare isn't in that situation at all it appears.

That is the biggest thing here. Scar tissue isn't as strong as the natural stuff, and has problems holding up when it is supposed to be a full replacement I guess.

However, in Amare's case it is just extra stuff put on top of what he has.

 

[Chaplin]

That is the biggest thing here. Scar tissue isn't as strong as the natural stuff, and has problems holding up when it is supposed to be a full replacement I guess.

However, in Amare's case it is just extra stuff put on top of what he has.

Maybe that's why they're saying "about 4 months" instead of "4-6 months".

 

[elindholm]

Okay, but let's ask this simple question:

What caused the damage to Stoudemire's knee? Since we aren't aware of any specific collision or bad fall, it sounds like "normal" wear and tear, if anything Stoudemire does with his body can be considered "normal."

So won't it continue happening? Realistically, why wouldn't it? The strain Stoudemire puts on his knees is absolutely enormous -- in fact, if you take the height, frequency, and explosiveness of his jumps, his weight, and the relative narrowness of his frame into consideration, it's quite possible that he puts more strain on his knees that any player in NBA history. His knees are breaking down because, as amazing an athlete as he is, the strain is just too much.

That's not going to change. Even if he comes back close to 100% after this surgery, it's only a matter of time until he needs another one.

 

[Skkorpion]

I'm as pessimistic as the next guy skorp but whats the difference between Boldin's surgery (which he has obviously recovered from) and this one? It's likely Amare' s lift will be less, but saying his career is over is a pretty baseless comment. Especially with so many volatile people on this side of the board right now.....

Boldin did not have microfracture surgery. Microfracture is never done unless the knee joint is considered permanently impared.

Most European clinics no longer perform microfractures because they don't usually work. I can't cite the sorce but the Swiss surgeons in mass last year agreed to quit performing the surgery. I'm sure a competent googler could locate the news article.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

What caused the damage to Stoudemire's knee? Since we aren't aware of any specific collision or bad fall, it sounds like "normal" wear and tear, if anything Stoudemire does with his body can be considered "normal."
.

From what I understand, it wasn't actually an injury that did it. Supposedly it is just a defect that they found. A little pot hole in the tissue if you will, not a tear.

 

[elindholm]

Supposedly it is just a defect that they found. A little pot hole in the tissue if you will, not a tear.

Okay, then what caused the "pothole"? It's never been an issue before, and now it requires surgery. Why did that happen?

 

[Sundance]

I'm sure Marion is relishing the chance that he's going to be "the man". Of course, he'll be respectful to Amare by never saying it in public. But I fully believe that he thinks he can fill Amare's role more than adequately. And here's to his beliefs coming to fruition and Marion kicking some major butt this year!

If Amare had stayed healthy, Marion would probably be the one who was squeezed off the All-Star squad this year(I can't imagine all three of our boys making a return trip, unless they were just to dominate again). So, if this team is successful enough this season(which I think they will be), Marion wont have to answer the inevitable, "So how does it feel to not be going to the All-Star game with Nash and Amare this year? Why is that your one the most overlooked stars in the league." If Marion has to answer another question like that, judging by his near breakdown at media day, he might just literally explode.

I really think this team, even without Amare, is going to suprise everyone again this year -- in a good way.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

I talked to my dad who spoke with some ortho surgeon friends of his over lunch today. From what he said, that is basically what it is now.

Penny and Swann had their microfracture surgeries when it first happened. That was like 6-8 years ago, which is huge in terms of medical advancements. Microfracture is no longer a new idea, it is becoming a normal thing.

There wasn't even a hole in Amare's cartalige. There is just a dent in it. The microfractures will allow scar tissue to form over it, hopefully preventing it from becomming worse.

Like your cancer example, they caught this at the very very earliest stage. It isn't like most of the bad cases where everything is already gone, and the scar tissue has to serve as a replacement. The scar tissue in Amare's knee will just be to fortify the existing stuff.

I guess the people he talked to (who just heard about things through the grapevine) didn't think that Amare would lose much, as long as he rehabs right.

It really is too bad this isn't the year 2070 where they could grow Amare some new cartalige on a rat or something.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Okay, but let's ask this simple question:

What caused the damage to Stoudemire's knee? Since we aren't aware of any specific collision or bad fall, it sounds like "normal" wear and tear, if anything Stoudemire does with his body can be considered "normal."

So won't it continue happening? Realistically, why wouldn't it? The strain Stoudemire puts on his knees is absolutely enormous -- in fact, if you take the height, frequency, and explosiveness of his jumps, his weight, and the relative narrowness of his frame into consideration, it's quite possible that he puts more strain on his knees that any player in NBA history. His knees are breaking down because, as amazing an athlete as he is, the strain is just too much.

That's not going to change. Even if he comes back close to 100% after this surgery, it's only a matter of time until he needs another one.

What he will do is continue to develop his game. He'll go left more often, so he won't have to go "over" as much. He'll continue to work on his jumper. He'll have similar explosiveness but won't be jumping for the moon every time down the court.

This process happens with every NBA player. Its called aging (and playing smarter).

 

[Arizona's Finest]

The parallel that seems the most comprable to me seems like Chris Webber....and we all know how that turned out....someone more knowlegable on this procedure tell me why im wrong

 

[AZZenny]

Some more on outcome studies of the OAT vs. microfracture approach - btw, some version of OAT sounds like what Allen Houston's doc is looking at - there are several variations on exactly how to do it that are being studied, mainly in Europe, but increasingly in the US, and apparently there is hot debate as to longer-term benefits of various subtypes - so it IS still somewhat experimental. Interesting that 'debridement' - which was also considered for Amare - seems universally rejected as archaic and minimally helpful.

This 2003 study noted that 75% of patients had structural abnormalities several years post-surgery.
Arthroscopic OAT is an effective and safe method of treating symptomatic full-thickness chondral defects of the femoral condyles in appropriately selected cases. However, further studies with long-term follow-up are needed to determine if the grafted area will maintain structural and functional integrity over time.

This was a randomized study, which found the two treatments similar, but an edge to microfracture.

Eighty patients without general osteoarthritis who had a single symptomatic cartilage defect on the femoral condyle in a stable knee were treated with autologous chondrocyte implantation or microfracture (forty in each group). Two years postoperatively, arthroscopy with biopsy for histological evaluation was carried out. RESULTS: In general, there were small differences between the two treatment groups. At two years, both groups had significant clinical improvement... improvement in the microfracture group was significantly better than that in the autologous chondrocyte implantation group (p = 0.004). Younger and more active patients did better in both groups. There were two failures in the autologous chondrocyte implantation group and one in the microfracture group. No serious complications were reported.

 

[elindholm]

Thanks a lot for the research, AZZ. I guess it's easier to deal with this setback if we have a better understanding of what's happening and why.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

elindholm gets it. All of it.

Microfracture is a last-ditch effort to save a ruined knee and the effort fails most of the time.

It is quite likely that Amare's career is over.

Watch the video in the other thread with Doc Carter talking. It isn't like this at all.

 

[Errntknght]

Yes, thanks for that article AZZ. It put MF procedure in a much better light than the other comparison with OAT and the bushels of anecdotal evidence. We, or at least I, don't know that Amare's condition precisely fits with the condition the study considered but it sounds close as far as the size and single lesion are concerned.

 

[Russ Smith]

The parallel that seems the most comprable to me seems like Chris Webber....and we all know how that turned out....someone more knowlegable on this procedure tell me why im wrong

Webber was older and much further along with his knee when he had microfracture. Webber had it after the 2003 season, he was already 30 or 31 and had just completed his 10th NBA season. Doesn't take a genius to see he's not the same guy since then but he'd had numerous leg problems before then and I'm pretty sure he's had multiple scopes and surgeries prior to his microfracture.

There's no guarantee but if any bigman was going to comeback ok from that it would be Amare at his age.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

Bump, for laughs. Things are way better now

 

[S_Nash]

Hmm, maybe, just maybe, we need another big man. Like Brian Skinner.

Do you guys think he's available?

If Grant goes down
KT and Burke won't cut it. And Boris really is not a long-term solution at the 4 (as is Shawn btw)

LOL. You're somewhat of a psychic...sort of...

 

[S_Nash]

Sorry I mike I hate to say this but YOU are overreacting. We have no chance at 40 wins if Amare misses the season. I cant think of one team who has a worse big man situation than us right now and big men is where your bread is buttered in the NBA.

Score one to Chandler Mike

 

[fordronken]

I can't believe this little thread I started sparked so much conversation! Geez, what's that about!?