Amare talking it up.

krazyasiankid

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In a recent article, Amare Stoudemire was quoted saying,

"The Nash-and-Stoudemire era is not over yet," Stoudemire said. "We're still here. We're still improving. We're still getting better as a unit. We're bringing the Phoenix Suns team with us. I'll tell you what: We're definitely focusing in on the defensive end and it's going to show this season."

Lets hope this time the promise of more "defense" is true aye?
 

overseascardfan

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In a recent article, Amare Stoudemire was quoted saying,

"The Nash-and-Stoudemire era is not over yet," Stoudemire said. "We're still here. We're still improving. We're still getting better as a unit. We're bringing the Phoenix Suns team with us. I'll tell you what: We're definitely focusing in on the defensive end and it's going to show this season."

Lets hope this time the promise of more "defense" is true aye?


We've all heard this before.
 

Roca Dolla

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no worrys suns fans he is gone soon then you all will remember what a great power forward the suns had in amare but its too late
 

slinslin

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Yes... and at least he cares about the fans, runs his website and does stuff for fans and tries to bring some excitement to the Suns unlike anyone else in the organization.

It's too bad with the injuries, else he would already be a much bigger star nation wide.
 

Divide Et Impera

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Right. This is de ja vu from 5 years ago when he said he wanted to be the best defensive big man in the league and then 4 years ago when he said he was working on his 3 to incorporate that into his game. This guy is all bluster. He's a Robin, not a Batman....
 

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Right. This is de ja vu from 5 years ago when he said he wanted to be the best defensive big man in the league and then 4 years ago when he said he was working on his 3 to incorporate that into his game. This guy is all bluster. He's a Robin, not a Batman....

robin hood, bitch.
 

cly2tw

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Talking up is better than talking down.
Over the hill is better than under the hill.

So, feel lucky guys that we still have guys over the hill as well as talking up! ;)
 

TheHopToad

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In fairness, what's he supposed to say? It's not he's gonna tell the reporter, "We are old and washed up and we're going to suck at defense".

I'm sure they all have their own doubts and concerns, but if you're an athlete (or any professional who has to deal with the media), you are going to spin your team or your company in the best light possible. It's your duty as a loyal employee.

The only other option is to just not talk to the media, and that doesn't go over well either.
 

Budden

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Yes... and at least he cares about the fans, runs his website and does stuff for fans and tries to bring some excitement to the Suns unlike anyone else in the organization.

It's too bad with the injuries, else he would already be a much bigger star nation wide.

Exactly. EXACTLY! It's definitely sad that Amare's natural skills have been diminished by injuries - not to mention the Suns' medical staff and their "there's nothing some plyometrics and a couple microfracture surgeries can't fix" approach - but the truly sad thing is the Suns fans' rationalizing that the problem they have with Amare is that he says positive things about the team.

It boggles the mind how people can, with what I can only assume is a straight face, claim that the fault they find with Amare is about how he hasn't developed as a defender, as if he's lazy and just doesn't care. When the guy came into the league, he was pure athleticism and power. He had spectacular potential, but he couldn't even shoot free throws. Now, he is one of the best jump shooting power forwards in the game. Does anyone on these boards think that his jump shot just developed out of thin air? Was it luck? People act like while Amare was running his mouth with empty bravado to reporters, his all-around skills developed magically.

We've all heard the insinuations from the Peter Vescey wanna-be's that Amare has a bad attitude or that he isn't committed to the team, but we've never heard anyone say it directly, and somehow people on this forum grasp onto it like rabid dogs on a dirty bone. But, when Alvin Gentry explicitly praises Amare for his work ethic, it goes unnoticed. Can anyone explain this to me? When Amare talks about how he's trying to read literature on how to be a better leader, he talks about reading a 500 page epic by Sun Tzu on the tactics of battle and applying it to his life and to his basketball career, people won't even consider the idea that, heck, maybe Amare Stoudemire just wants to develop himself and has a genuine interest in becoming a better teammate. Instead, they focus on a blurb about how he also used wikipedia. Are you freaking kidding me? There's no reason to think that Amare used wikipedia as anything other than a resource to find links to other great bodies of literature about leadership, and yet people act as though he just read the opening paragraph of whatever results came up when he put the word "leader" into a wikipedia search line.

Personally, I'm encouraged by the fact that Amare has been sponsoring events and organizing get-togethers for the whole team in an effort to develop the chemistry that seemed to be lacking with last year's team. But what really encourages me is when he told reporters that, in order to become a better leader, he said that he has studies the ways that Steve Nash and Grant Hill have been such great role models for a group of younger guys. Yes, this is just another quote, and while it has gone almost completely unnoticed on this forum because it doesn't mesh with the charicature of the selfish "me-first Amare", I tend to look at it as a testament to Amare's maturity. Sometimes, a true leader must be willing to follow the lead of others, and a statement like the one cited above not only shows that he understands this, but it also shows that he understands that the fans aren't the only ones who read newspapers. The players do, too. And while Lebron James and Dwayne Wade, the darlings of the media, seem all too willing to entertain musings about where they might end up at season's end, Amare has chosen instead to talk up his teammates and the potential that this team has to achieve as it hasn't been able to do in the past.

Ultimately, I think we can all agree that the only thing that matters is what transpires on the court, and if Amare talks about being a lock-down defender and then gets burned time and again by his opponent, then it's on him and he's at fault. However, let's not pretend that the disappointment in Amare is based solely on the fact that he's a confident basketball player. The fact is, he's not a super-freak athlete like he was when he came into the league 8 years ago. People want to blame Amare's attitude, because that way, they can tell themselves that they view Amare as something other than an athlete, an object that they can write about. If Amare's raw athleticism has diminished, it's hard to fault Amare. Yet people still feel disappointed. So, they rationalize other reasons to blame Amare, the person, for not achieving the potential he once had; they nit-pick any little sound-byte they can find that advances this idea. And the truly sad thing is that they've wrapped their opinion of Amare so tightly within this idea that they don't even realize they're doing it.
 

cly2tw

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You must know, what Nash gains for the team with leadership and spreading the wealth etc, Amare loses by opening his mouth. With a saint like Nash working his butts off for the Suns, Amare is the destined vilian that's between Nash/team and the success. So, Amare trying to become leader is a further evidence that he is the vilian, only there to undermine the saint.:D

Exactly. EXACTLY! It's definitely sad that Amare's natural skills have been diminished by injuries - not to mention the Suns' medical staff and their "there's nothing some plyometrics and a couple microfracture surgeries can't fix" approach - but the truly sad thing is the Suns fans' rationalizing that the problem they have with Amare is that he says positive things about the team.

It boggles the mind how people can, with what I can only assume is a straight face, claim that the fault they find with Amare is about how he hasn't developed as a defender, as if he's lazy and just doesn't care. When the guy came into the league, he was pure athleticism and power. He had spectacular potential, but he couldn't even shoot free throws. Now, he is one of the best jump shooting power forwards in the game. Does anyone on these boards think that his jump shot just developed out of thin air? Was it luck? People act like while Amare was running his mouth with empty bravado to reporters, his all-around skills developed magically.

We've all heard the insinuations from the Peter Vescey wanna-be's that Amare has a bad attitude or that he isn't committed to the team, but we've never heard anyone say it directly, and somehow people on this forum grasp onto it like rabid dogs on a dirty bone. But, when Alvin Gentry explicitly praises Amare for his work ethic, it goes unnoticed. Can anyone explain this to me? When Amare talks about how he's trying to read literature on how to be a better leader, he talks about reading a 500 page epic by Sun Tzu on the tactics of battle and applying it to his life and to his basketball career, people won't even consider the idea that, heck, maybe Amare Stoudemire just wants to develop himself and has a genuine interest in becoming a better teammate. Instead, they focus on a blurb about how he also used wikipedia. Are you freaking kidding me? There's no reason to think that Amare used wikipedia as anything other than a resource to find links to other great bodies of literature about leadership, and yet people act as though he just read the opening paragraph of whatever results came up when he put the word "leader" into a wikipedia search line.

Personally, I'm encouraged by the fact that Amare has been sponsoring events and organizing get-togethers for the whole team in an effort to develop the chemistry that seemed to be lacking with last year's team. But what really encourages me is when he told reporters that, in order to become a better leader, he said that he has studies the ways that Steve Nash and Grant Hill have been such great role models for a group of younger guys. Yes, this is just another quote, and while it has gone almost completely unnoticed on this forum because it doesn't mesh with the charicature of the selfish "me-first Amare", I tend to look at it as a testament to Amare's maturity. Sometimes, a true leader must be willing to follow the lead of others, and a statement like the one cited above not only shows that he understands this, but it also shows that he understands that the fans aren't the only ones who read newspapers. The players do, too. And while Lebron James and Dwayne Wade, the darlings of the media, seem all too willing to entertain musings about where they might end up at season's end, Amare has chosen instead to talk up his teammates and the potential that this team has to achieve as it hasn't been able to do in the past.

Ultimately, I think we can all agree that the only thing that matters is what transpires on the court, and if Amare talks about being a lock-down defender and then gets burned time and again by his opponent, then it's on him and he's at fault. However, let's not pretend that the disappointment in Amare is based solely on the fact that he's a confident basketball player. The fact is, he's not a super-freak athlete like he was when he came into the league 8 years ago. People want to blame Amare's attitude, because that way, they can tell themselves that they view Amare as something other than an athlete, an object that they can write about. If Amare's raw athleticism has diminished, it's hard to fault Amare. Yet people still feel disappointed. So, they rationalize other reasons to blame Amare, the person, for not achieving the potential he once had; they nit-pick any little sound-byte they can find that advances this idea. And the truly sad thing is that they've wrapped their opinion of Amare so tightly within this idea that they don't even realize they're doing it.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Great power foward?

Please don't tell me you don't think he isn't. No PF is perfect. We will dread when we have absolutely no big men left very soon.
 

Ronin

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Please don't tell me you don't think he isn't. No PF is perfect. We will dread when we have absolutely no big men left very soon.
Please tell me how Amare is great.
Is it his rebounding, defense, post-up offense? 3pt shot? Where did Amare spin move go for that matter? Help me out here.....

Amare can score on the pick n roll, from 15ft, and dunk the heck out of the basketball....but that doesn't make him great.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Please tell me how Amare is great.
Is it his rebounding, defense, post-up offense? 3pt shot? Where did Amare spin move go for that matter? Help me out here.....

Amare can score on the pick n roll, from 15ft, and dunk the heck out of the basketball....but that doesn't make him great.

I know it's the 'in thing' to bash on Amare. He isn't good on defense or rebounding. Why do you care that a PF's 3 point % isn't good? That is a bonus of a PF if he can shoot the 3PT, not a requirement. His post up offense is effective. Go right at will, go left at times, dead eye spot up shooter. No he doesn't have a jump hook or baby hook to score. He doesn't need them.

The Suns haven't had a big man this good since Barkley for a short time, and God knows how long before him.

Just wait to see how bad the Suns are when they can no longer outscore their opponents and are still poor on defense without Amare. When is the last time Phoenix has been a good defensive team? Even the finals team of the 90's wasn't all that good.
 

Wonder

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When was the last time you saw the pick and roll done efficiently on a regular basis? It is not Nash that makes Stoudemire and it was also not the system. He is a scoring machine, he rarely has a terrible game scoring wise, a force on the inside, he just willingly gets the ball into the basket most of the time and is clutch. He's rarely had the chance to be the main man or "go-to guy." This season will be the real season to judge him entirely, because I think they're gonna roll with him this time around being his contract year. In the past years it would've been impossible to completely stand out to the rest of the world as an elite player just because of the system the Suns play. Unless you're the guy dishing out assists. Amare gets too much **** thrown at him, of course Nash is never to blame! He's the amazing canadian caucasian little man that we all love.
 

Ronin

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I know it's the 'in thing' to bash on Amare.
For Me it's not the "in thing." Been doing for quite awhile now...

He isn't good on defense or rebounding.
I know
Why do you care that a PF's 3 point % isn't good?
I don't care...I really don't, it was a tongue and check comment, but nvm.
His post up offense is effective.
I disagree, I still cringe when he post up
Go right at will,
He's unstoppable going to his right
go left at times,
He has diffculty going to his left...

The Suns haven't had a big man this good since Barkley for a short time, and God knows how long before him.
Exactly
 

dreamcastrocks

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When was the last time you saw the pick and roll done efficiently on a regular basis? It is not Nash that makes Stoudemire and it was also not the system. He is a scoring machine, he rarely has a terrible game scoring wise, a force on the inside, he just willingly gets the ball into the basket most of the time and is clutch. He's rarely had the chance to be the main man or "go-to guy." This season will be the real season to judge him entirely, because I think they're gonna roll with him this time around being his contract year. In the past years it would've been impossible to completely stand out to the rest of the world as an elite player just because of the system the Suns play. Unless you're the guy dishing out assists. Amare gets too much **** thrown at him, of course Nash is never to blame! He's the amazing canadian caucasian little man that we all love.

2 years ago. It was the main reason why the Suns were effective in the half court offense. They ran the P&R as well as we have seen since Stockton and Malone.
 

Covert Rain

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Please tell me how Amare is great.
Is it his rebounding, defense, post-up offense? 3pt shot? Where did Amare spin move go for that matter? Help me out here.....

Amare can score on the pick n roll, from 15ft, and dunk the heck out of the basketball....but that doesn't make him great.

Amare is a great offensive PF. There is no denying that. You can debate his limited back to the basket game etc.....but if you look at his numbers and how we works PF on regular basis on the offensive end....I think you can say he is very good to great.

As an overall PF, I agree. Amare is not great. Subpar rebounding and defense stop Amare form being an all around great PF.
 

elindholm

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... but the truly sad thing is the Suns fans' rationalizing that the problem they have with Amare is that he says positive things about the team.

I gotta tell you, the way that discussion of Stoudemire's empty promises brings old Penny Hardaway apologists out of the woodwork is pretty frightening.

He had spectacular potential, but he couldn't even shoot free throws.

This really isn't all that telling. Yes, over his first three years, he increased his FT% from 66% to the low 80s, which is where it is now. That is commendable. But it's a small thing.

Now, he is one of the best jump shooting power forwards in the game.

Someone can dig the numbers out of 82games.com, but in fact Stoudemire's little 16-foot jumper isn't an especially powerful weapon. A lot of PFs in the league, even lesser names, have that shot. David West has it. Kenyon Martin, of all people, has it. Elton Brand had it before he got hurt and may get it back. Obviously the likes of Duncan, Gasol, Nowitzki, and Garnett have it. What makes the jumper especially effective in Stoudemire's case is that he is better than most at getting by a defender who plays him too close. And yes, he has worked on it. But it is another small thing.

Does anyone on these boards think that his jump shot just developed out of thin air? Was it luck? People act like while Amare was running his mouth with empty bravado to reporters, his all-around skills developed magically.

Which all-around skills are those? The ones that improve his scoring, improve his scoring, and improve his scoring?

Can you point to the slightest improvement in any other aspect of his game? Has he made any progress as a defender? (The answer seems to be no; his foul rate is unchanged throughout his career and the Suns' interior defense is still awful.) His rebounding hasn't budged. Blocks and steals have gone nowhere. Assists may be ticking up very slightly; we'll see this year. He's still among the league leaders in technical fouls, so he's done nothing to control his temper.

we've never heard anyone say it directly

Well, it's in Seven Seconds or Less, of course, although I acknowledge that treating that book as gospel would be going too far. But it's well known throughout the league that Stoudemire has been shopped for the last year and a half, if not more. If the Suns were sold on him, they wouldn't be taking (and making) so many calls. You don't hear constant trade rumors about Duncan and Nowitzki, do you?

Personally, I'm encouraged by the fact that Amare has been sponsoring events and organizing get-togethers for the whole team in an effort to develop the chemistry that seemed to be lacking with last year's team.

Me too. I think he does the community outreach thing pretty well.

Yes, this is just another quote, and while it has gone almost completely unnoticed on this forum because it doesn't mesh with the charicature of the selfish "me-first Amare", I tend to look at it as a testament to Amare's maturity.

I don't know why you think it's an indicator of maturity this time, when it wasn't each of the last several times. But who knows, maybe this will be year that he finally gets it.

Of course, if it's not, I know we can count on another round of excuses and criticism for the naysayers. And not just from Stoudemire.

The fact is, he's not a super-freak athlete like he was when he came into the league 8 years ago. People want to blame Amare's attitude, because that way, they can tell themselves that they view Amare as something other than an athlete, an object that they can write about. If Amare's raw athleticism has diminished, it's hard to fault Amare. Yet people still feel disappointed. So, they rationalize other reasons to blame Amare, the person, for not achieving the potential he once had; they nit-pick any little sound-byte they can find that advances this idea.

Plug "Hardaway" in for "Stoudemire" and it's deja vu all over again.

Just compare Stoudemire to Grant Hill and the differences are obvious. Hill, too, was derailed by injuries and robbed of the opportunity to reach his potential. But now that he's able to play again, he focuses on the areas where he can still improve. He understands the game better, is a better position rebounder, takes better care of the ball, and has improved his shot selection. And he does it all without needing to be told, without needing to be praised, and without needing the incentive of the next big contract or endorsement deal around the corner.

And the truly sad thing is that they've wrapped their opinion of Amare so tightly within this idea that they don't even realize they're doing it.

Yeah, that's right, we're the deluded ones.
 

TucsonDevil

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of course Nash is never to blame! He's the amazing canadian caucasian little man that we all love.

Why are you bringing Nationality into this?

As far as Amare is concerned, I feel like the bitterness focused towards Amare is the result of seemingly untapped potential. We all know that he is good, but he talks as if he is a HOFer and will soon be loading up the fingers with his championship rings. Amare is a very good offensive player, love to have him on the team for that purpose. However, he isn't as great as he thinks he is, and he certainly doesn't understand how or have the ability to become a true HOFer with rings.

In my book, he is very good. A nice piece on a championship team - but no where near the leader on and off the court that can deliver a ring. Kinda like Scottie Pippen... hmm, that might be a very good comparison.
 

Mainstreet

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The thing about Amare is that he is an excellent offensive player which is not bad. However, Amare has not developed his defensive and rebounding skills to any where near they should be. Amare no longer has this freakish athleticism to just play some defense by sheer talent like when he first came into the league (like the Brad Miller block).

Another way to look at it, what if Amare totally dedicated himself to defense and rebounding. I not only think he would be a vastly improved player but still get his 20 points like Marion used to do by just being there.
 

Ronin

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Amare is a great offensive PF. There is no denying that. You can debate his limited back to the basket game etc.....but if you look at his numbers and how we works PF on regular basis on the offensive end....I think you can say he is very good to great.
I can agree to that. When Amare is on his game offensively, it's a beauty to watch

As an overall PF, I agree. Amare is not great. Subpar rebounding and defense stop Amare form being an all around great PF.
:thumbup:
 

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