Now the story can be told . . . (kinda long)

[Larry Schweikart]

You are the first person that remembers the history of the Suns as I remember it. Many a time people have argued with me about it. I do remember everything you mentioned.

I also like to tell my kids about the brief, and it was even in the AZ Republic if I remember right, time Colangelo tried to sign Wilt Chamberlain from the Professional Volley Ball league he was in. Only to have the Lakers who had not renounced his rights go to the league office and said they had one more year of his contract, and if he played anywhere it would be in LA. Just another reason to hate LA! LOL!

People don't remember Connie Hawkins, or his book, I think the title was called Foul! But for two seasons, he had two of the best seasons of anyone that ever played the NBA before he got too old, or injuries, slowed him down.

I am sketchy on a game I watched on TV with X Man playing. One of our guys got crushed and popped up to retaliate, when the other side got their hackles up and their players stepped forward. X Man ran up to the fracas and I remember the other team, all backed down like a fire being put out instantly! No one wanted to mess with the X Man. Not even Jordan!

Maybe you remember this:
It was 71 or 72, one of Hawkins's last years in Phoenix. A ball was bouncing out of bounds. Hawk was near it. He ran over and the ball was literally out of bounds by a foot, some six inches off the ground. Hawk, balancing on one leg, reached out and grabbed it in midair and just hung there. The Coliseum was dead quiet as everyone held their breath wondering if he was going to fall. Instead, Hawk reeled it in, and one handed, fired a LENGTH OF THE COURT PASS to a Sun under the opposite basket for a hoop. This was bar none the most amazing play I have
ever seen in the NBA, including some Jordan plays.

 

[Larry Schweikart]

In a similar vein, I was excited when we got Truck Robinson.

I thought, "Man, Truck. Now we will finally have a replacement for Lucas and, before him, Perry." Nope. Don't recall if he shot 3s then, but he became a majority-outside jumpshooter.

Still, other than Rudy Tomjanovich, Truck had the most uncanny BANK shot from the corner of the key. It was wild.

 

[Yuma]

Maybe you remember this:
It was 71 or 72, one of Hawkins's last years in Phoenix. A ball was bouncing out of bounds. Hawk was near it. He ran over and the ball was literally out of bounds by a foot, some six inches off the ground. Hawk, balancing on one leg, reached out and grabbed it in midair and just hung there. The Coliseum was dead quiet as everyone held their breath wondering if he was going to fall. Instead, Hawk reeled it in, and one handed, fired a LENGTH OF THE COURT PASS to a Sun under the opposite basket for a hoop. This was bar none the most amazing play I have
ever seen in the NBA, including some Jordan plays.

I did not see that. Plays like that I find more amazing than normal plays. If you read his book Foul, Hawk did some amazing basketball stuff in that book! I remember feeling the desperation coming out of those pages. I also think it's like seeing Satchel Paige in the MLB. You can see the greatness, while realizing their best days were behind them. It makes you wonder if Hawk played in the NBA right out of college, what that would have looked like?

 

[Larry Schweikart]

I did not see that. Plays like that I find more amazing than normal plays. If you read his book Foul, Hawk did some amazing basketball stuff in that book! I remember feeling the desperation coming out of those pages. I also think it's like seeing Satchel Paige in the MLB. You can see the greatness, while realizing their best days were behind them. It makes you wonder if Hawk played in the NBA right out of college, what that would have looked like?

Even from the book "Hawk," I never got that Hawkins was the same talent as Jordan who would go shoot 100 free throws AFTER practice. Not the same competitiveness as a Bill Russell, who worked to get inside Wilt's head by being his "friend" so Wilt would hold back a little.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Even from the book "Hawk," I never got that Hawkins was the same talent as Jordan who would go shoot 100 free throws AFTER practice. Not the same competitiveness as a Bill Russell, who worked to get inside Wilt's head by being his "friend" so Wilt would hold back a little.

I'm sure he wasn't but I wonder if that was always the case. I didn't read the book but I do recall he was bitter and disheartened over the way he had been treated. Even the salve of finally allowing him to join the NBA (but only on an expansion franchise in a far off desert town) wasn't enough to fully motivate him.

He was simply incredible at times but even as a teenager watching him play I thought it was obvious that "winning" wasn't always the end all be all for him. But maybe I was influenced by the comments I heard from so many adult fans back then?

 

[Larry Schweikart]

I'm sure he wasn't but I wonder if that was always the case. I didn't read the book but I do recall he was bitter and disheartened over the way he had been treated. Even the salve of finally allowing him to join the NBA (but only on an expansion franchise in a far off desert town) wasn't enough to fully motivate him.

He was simply incredible at times but even as a teenager watching him play I thought it was obvious that "winning" wasn't always the end all be all for him. But maybe I was influenced by the comments I heard from so many adult fans back then?

I think you're right, and also I think we have no idea of how badly his knees were after all those years in the ABA on cement courts. Heck, I watched a doc last night on the "Life and Times of the ABA" and they even played on an icy court one night

 

[JCSunsfan]

All of this stuff. I remember all of it.

Ronnie Lee and the Floor Score.
The Needle Alvin Scott.
The toy truck rolling out onto the floor when Truck Robinson was introduced for the first time.
Don Buse
How Dennis Awtry had a job, I will never know.

 

[AzStevenCal]

All of this stuff. I remember all of it.

Ronnie Lee and the Floor Score.
The Needle Alvin Scott.
The toy truck rolling out onto the floor when Truck Robinson was introduced for the first time.
Don Buse
How Dennis Awtry had a job, I will never know.

If you had seen Dale Schlueter try to man the center spot for us you'd understand why Dennis Awtrey had a job.

 

[Hoop Head]

If you had seen Dale Schlueter try to man the center spot for us you'd understand why Dennis Awtrey had a job.

Was it ever worse than the Joe Klein & Danny Schayes combo in the 90's? Say what you will about the deal to get him here but Hot Rod was a real upgrade to that dynamic duo.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Was it ever worse than the Joe Klein & Danny Schayes combo in the 90's? Say what you will about the deal to get him here but Hot Rod was a real upgrade to that dynamic duo.

We've had some horrible center units through the years and yeah, that one was close to the worst. But I happen to think that any unit with Dale in it moves into the lead. Fortunately we had our 210 pound Alvan Adams to save the day.

 

[SeattleCardinal]

Bayard Forrest - the Grand Canyon product had a rather forgettable stint during the Adams era. Maybe a season or two?

 

[Superbone]

What could have been with Nick Vanos. Sigh.

 

[Larry Schweikart]

If you had seen Dale Schlueter try to man the center spot for us you'd understand why Dennis Awtrey had a job.

Schleuter was a key example of how the Suns always made bad deals based on one season---Schleuter had a good season with someone (NJ?) where he played some of the big guys very tough. But not real plan on how to put all the pieces together---the big exception of course was the Nash teams, where the players were specifically selected for the style of play.

But take Barkley for example: he was basically added to a good existing team. The style of play did not change all that much. The Suns of 78-80 with Adams and Walter Davis had a style, but it wasn't workable. It was small ball that just got bullied by the big, thick teams.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Schleuter was a key example of how the Suns always made bad deals based on one season---Schleuter had a good season with someone (NJ?) where he played some of the big guys very tough. But not real plan on how to put all the pieces together---the big exception of course was the Nash teams, where the players were specifically selected for the style of play.

But take Barkley for example: he was basically added to a good existing team. The style of play did not change all that much. The Suns of 78-80 with Adams and Walter Davis had a style, but it wasn't workable. It was small ball that just got bullied by the big, thick teams.

I noticed you spelled Dale's name differently than I did and I wondered if my memory was wrong on it. So I checked Basketball Reference and was surprised to see that Dale passed away 7 years ago. 68 at the time, another player with ties to Portland from the 70's and 80's that died far too young. It was probably his best year in Portland that drew our interest although he played for Philadelphia, Atlanta and Buffalo in between the Blazers and his stint with us.

For some reason I thought he was a younger player at the time than he was. Sitting court-side for one game in 77, I remember watching him during the pre-pre game stuff where he was fooling around with a troop of Scouts and he didn't look too out of place with them other than his height. He looked like just a big goofy kid although some of those Cub Scouts were more coordinated than he was.

 

[Dr. Jones]

An amazing post thank you. Wonderful read I wish I could have read that book.

I can sticky this post so it doesn't fall down. It's a great read

Thanks Chris, and thank you @Larry Schweikart

I'd pay to read that book.

 

[football karma]

pretty sure i learned econ from Larry in highschool

 

[TRW]

Lots of memories here. The Hawk will always be my favorite Sun. The year they had the Lakers down 3-1 (I think his first year with the Suns) only to lose the series (Wilt and West woke up) was amazing. My first "Suns mania" time, really my first home team mania time because they were the only game in town.

Good times.

 

[Springmaster]

Great post and wonderful memories flood my brain.

It is time to get even with Milwaukee for the loss of the coin flip

 

[KenobiOne]

The Suns continually got bounced, needing toughness.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

[Mainstreet]

Bayard Forrest - the Grand Canyon product had a rather forgettable stint during the Adams era. Maybe a season or two?

This makes me think of former Sun Horatio Llamas who also played for Grand Canyon.

 

[Drop_D]

This makes me think of former Sun Horatio Llamas who also played for Grand Canyon.

El Baño!!