amare wants to stay

[cly2tw]

They don't have a chance WITH Amare. The best they can hope for, with or without him, is 2nd round exit (if they are lucky enough to somehow win in first round).
The current group can not win it all. The whole point of trading Amare, Shaq, Nash, etc is that it is OVER.

Well, why do you conclude from this that Amare is the one to be dumped for garbage as we have seen rumored around? If we could keep Amare and lure Wade or JoeJ in 2010, I'd say we become instant contenders. That can't be said of Shaq or Nash, can it?

 

[Blackification]

They don't have a chance WITH Amare. The best they can hope for, with or without him, is 2nd round exit (if they are lucky enough to somehow win in first round).
The current group can not win it all. The whole point of trading Amare, Shaq, Nash, etc is that it is OVER.

I think would have had a chance this year if Porter wasn't their coach from the start but I see what you are saying. But if it is really rebuild time why trade amar'e and not nash?

 

[SirStefan32]

Well, why do you conclude from this that Amare is the one to be dumped for garbage as we have seen rumored around? If we could keep Amare and lure Wade or JoeJ in 2010, I'd say we become instant contenders. That can't be said of Shaq or Nash, can it?

I am all for dumping Shaq and Nash as well. However, Shaq and Nash are irrelevant. Shaq and Nash are not going to be around in 2 years.

Amare, should Suns extend his contract, is going to be making around $20 mil per season to start with, increasing every year. That's essentially 25-30% of your payroll. You can not build around a good role player making that much money. Even if you were able to lure Dwade here, he'd be making about the same (a mil or so less per year), which would leave the Suns with very little money for the remaining 11 players.
We would all like to keep Amare, but not at $20-23 mil per year.
Those contracts should be given to superstars- Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Dwight Howard, etc, and not very good role players like Amare.

 

[pokerface]

Well, why do you conclude from this that Amare is the one to be dumped for garbage as we have seen rumored around? If we could keep Amare and lure Wade or JoeJ in 2010, I'd say we become instant contenders. That can't be said of Shaq or Nash, can it?

Amare is surrounded by virtual allstars now and we arnt contending.


Look, Amare isnt Duncan or Garnett....or even Dwight Howard for that matter. He's not some franchise piece to build around. He thinks he is but he's not.

(edit) Sorry SirStefan32, didnt mean to rip off your post above. We just happen to be thinking alike on this one.

 

[pokerface]

I am all for dumping Shaq and Nash as well. However, Shaq and Nash are irrelevant. Shaq and Nash are not going to be around in 2 years.

Amare, should Suns extend his contract, is going to be making around $20 mil per season to start with, increasing every year. That's essentially 25-30% of your payroll. You can not build around a good role player making that much money. Even if you were able to lure Dwade here, he'd be making about the same (a mil or so less per year), which would leave the Suns with very little money for the remaining 11 players.
We would all like to keep Amare, but not at $20-23 mil per year.
Those contracts should be given to superstars- Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Dwight Howard, etc, and not very good role players like Amare.

Thats exactly right. EXACTLY.


Sure Amare is a good powerforward...no one would dispute that. But the amount of money it would take to keep him would kill the Suns franchise for years to come. He's not productive enough in other areas of his game to max him out for years and years. Then on top of it we'd have to worry about his knees, ego and whatever else it take to keep him going. I mean cripe, certain fans on this board complained about Marion being overpaid but I can say without hesistation he was far more productive and reliable over the years than Amare can ever hope to be....plus Marion gave it his all everynight...can the same be said of Amare? If Marion was supposedly overpaid then how can we justify paying Amare anything even close to 20mill per.

 

[Blackification]

Amare is surrounded by virtual allstars now and we arnt contending.


Look, Amare isnt Duncan or Garnett....or even Dwight Howard for that matter. He's not some franchise piece to build around. He thinks he is but he's not.

What does that have to do with anything? Shaq is the one surrounded by all stars if anything not amare. He is used as a role player, produces like a role player, but gets blamed like a captain.

 

[SirStefan32]

I think would have had a chance this year if Porter wasn't their coach from the start but I see what you are saying. But if it is really rebuild time why trade amar'e and not nash?

I think Nash and Shaq should be traded along with Amare. The reason people are focusing on Amare is that he has more value than Shaq or Nash. Shaq is playing great, but he is making a lot of money and he has another year left.
Nash has some value, but my guess is that the Suns don't want to trade him because he is a fan favorite. I think he should not be untouchable unless there was/is some kind of gentlemen's agreement between Steve and the Management when he first signed, or something like that.

Either way, the truth is that Amare is more valuable than Nash or Shaq (Shaq may become more valuable next year because of a gigantic expiring contract) and when you are the most valuable trading piece, people are going to talk about it more than about anybody else.

 

[cly2tw]

I am all for dumping Shaq and Nash as well. However, Shaq and Nash are irrelevant. Shaq and Nash are not going to be around in 2 years.

Amare, should Suns extend his contract, is going to be making around $20 mil per season to start with, increasing every year. That's essentially 25-30% of your payroll. You can not build around a good role player making that much money. Even if you were able to lure Dwade here, he'd be making about the same (a mil or so less per year), which would leave the Suns with very little money for the remaining 11 players.
We would all like to keep Amare, but not at $20-23 mil per year.
Those contracts should be given to superstars- Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Dwight Howard, etc, and not very good role players like Amare.

In reality though, max contracts of that magnitude are given to Rashard Lewis, Redd, Allen, JOneal, and likes. Bosh, Melo will get theirs soon. Boston have 3 of such to get the title.

With all the def. wizardry of KG, KG + Wade alone wouldn't make it a contender, but Amare + Wade may. As said, the effect of Amare's lack of defense has been distorted to his disadvantage in the environment of the current Suns.

 

[pokerface]

What does that have to do with anything? Shaq is the one surrounded by all stars if anything not amare. He is used as a role player, produces like a role player, but gets blamed like a captain.

Oh yeah....Its never Amares fault for anything. He's always misused...misunderstood. Meanwhile, during the last Cavs game he had six measly rebounds and zero assists. I guess that was Porters fault...or someones elses fault.


How would it be really if Amare was treated like a franchise player. Would he elevate his overall game and do whatever it takes to win? If he cant find ways to win with this group now I fear for the future with him being the focal point of anything.

 

[cly2tw]

I think Nash and Shaq should be traded along with Amare. The reason people are focusing on Amare is that he has more value than Shaq or Nash. Shaq is playing great, but he is making a lot of money and he has another year left.
Nash has some value, but my guess is that the Suns don't want to trade him because he is a fan favorite. I think he should not be untouchable unless there was/is some kind of gentlemen's agreement between Steve and the Management when he first signed, or something like that.

Either way, the truth is that Amare is more valuable than Nash or Shaq (Shaq may become more valuable next year because of a gigantic expiring contract) and when you are the most valuable trading piece, people are going to talk about it more than about anybody else.

I don't mind the talks. But if Amare goes for any of the rumored deals, we'd be more screwed than keeping him for now and trading him next off season. If the season is already screwed, then the management should give Amare at least the chance Dirk and JoeJ got to prove themselves without Nash dominating the ball.

 

[pokerface]

With all the def. wizardry of KG, KG + Wade alone wouldn't make it a contender, but Amare + Wade may. As said, the effect of Amare's lack of defense has been distorted to his disadvantage in the environment of the current Suns.

Oh Amare needs Wade to be all he can be but Amare/Shaq/Nash/Richardson/Hill cant do it for "STAT". Wade won a championship with Shaq but Amare cant even mkae the playoffs with him.


Maybe we should try to do an Amare for Wade swap.

 

[cly2tw]

Oh yeah....Its never Amares fault for anything. He's always misused...misunderstood. Meanwhile, during the last Cavs game he had six measly rebounds and zero assists. I guess that was Porters fault...or someones elses fault.


How would it be really if Amare was treated like a franchise player. Would he elevate his overall game and do whatever it takes to win? If he cant find ways to win with this group now I fear for the future with him being the focal point of anything.

You can't refute my claim that Amare is at least as good as Dirk of a franchise player when given the opportunity. His defenciencies are actually less than Dirk's, aside from motivation issues.

 

[cly2tw]

Oh Amare needs Wade to be all he can be but Amare/Shaq/Nash/Richardson/Hill cant do it for "STAT". Wade won a championship with Shaq but Amare cant even mkae the playoffs with him.


Maybe we should try to do an Amare for Wade swap.

Trade Amare to Heats, we'll see. If anything, Amare is a better fit than Shaq to compliment Wade.
And the combination of Shaq/Nash without an alternative game plan would kill anything. Replace KG, Bosh, Melo or who ever not named Wade/Kobe/LBJ, this team would fail under Porter. You are too shortsighted, my friend.

 

[jandaman]

Thats exactly right. EXACTLY.


Sure Amare is a good powerforward...no one would dispute that. But the amount of money it would take to keep him would kill the Suns franchise for years to come. He's not productive enough in other areas of his game to max him out for years and years. Then on top of it we'd have to worry about his knees, ego and whatever else it take to keep him going. I mean cripe, certain fans on this board complained about Marion being overpaid but I can say without hesistation he was far more productive and reliable over the years than Amare can ever hope to be....plus Marion gave it his all everynight...can the same be said of Amare? If Marion was supposedly overpaid then how can we justify paying Amare anything even close to 20mill per.

About Marion...

I agree.

When Stoudemire was out... who remembered Marion taking over the "big man" role.... I remember Marion put up 30/15 3 games in a row... first time since Charles Barkley...
Marion was also team's leading shot blocker and steals.... and shot 50% from the field... while 22/11....

If Stoudemire can put up those numbers then HE IS worth the MAX...

26 ppg and 9 rebounds while slacking off the defense... hang on... even Zach Randolph averaged 23 ppg and 11 rebounds... and everyone puts him down...



Stoudemire needs to be a 20/10 consistently and atleast play hard every night...

 

[cly2tw]

About Marion...

I agree.

When Stoudemire was out... who remembered Marion taking over the "big man" role.... I remember Marion put up 30/15 3 games in a row... first time since Charles Barkley...
Marion was also team's leading shot blocker and steals.... and shot 50% from the field... while 22/11....

If Stoudemire can put up those numbers then HE IS worth the MAX...

26 ppg and 9 rebounds while slacking off the defense... hang on... even Zach Randolph averaged 23 ppg and 11 rebounds... and everyone puts him down...



Stoudemire needs to be a 20/10 consistently and atleast play hard every night...

Your arguments are a little confusing. DA's system produced huge distortions of stats. Judging by stats, Marion has been top 10 in the league consistently, which led him to demand 17mil per extension. I don't worry about Amare's stats. As long as he is motivated, he will get his. He always raised his game in the playoffs.

 

[SirStefan32]

What does that have to do with anything? Shaq is the one surrounded by all stars if anything not amare. He is used as a role player, produces like a role player, but gets blamed like a captain.

Come on now, let's not flat out make things up. Amare is the man on this team. He is the #1 option. He takes more shots than anybody- 3 more than Shaq, while Shaq takes 2 less than JRich and just 1 more than Nash and Barbosa. Let's not make things up to blame Shaq for Amare's failure.

The whole Shaq thing is irrelevant and makes no sense. Shaq is gone after next season, if not sooner, he is not the future of the team. Shaq is completely irrelevant. We are talking about Amare, not Shaq.
You seem to be interested in proving that Amare is better than Shaq right now. Of course he is better! He is 11 years younger. He is just reaching the peak of his career whereas Shaq is near the end of his career. Arguing that Shaq is a better player than Amare right now would be as insane as arguing that Amare is a better player than Shaq was in his prime.
Shaq is irrelevant to this discussion and I have no idea why people keep bringing him up.

The point is that Amare has an all star Center playing next to him, outstanding point guard, and very good shooting guard and small forward to go along with one of the best bench players in the league.
The point is that the Suns will never be able to surround him with enough talent to win when he is making $20-24 mil per year.

 

[SirStefan32]

In reality though, max contracts of that magnitude are given to Rashard Lewis, Redd, Allen, JOneal, and likes. Bosh, Melo will get theirs soon. Boston have 3 of such to get the title.

You are exactly right- that IS my point. Redd is not going to lead a team to anything. Neither is Jermaine O'Neal, nor will Melo and Bosh. Lewis may get a ring since D-Howard is the new Shaq. Allen did get his ring because Celtics managed to get 3 outsanding players, but Allen makes less money at the end of his contract than Amare would make his first year. Sure, if Suns got Howard, Amare could win the ring, but he wouldn't lead the Suns to it. Boston situation is quite unique and definitely not the norm. Additionally, they brought in KG to lead them. As good as pierce and Allen are, it is KG's team.
The point is, I don't want this team to be Redd's Bucks, or O'Neal's Pacers, or anything like that.

With all the def. wizardry of KG, KG + Wade alone wouldn't make it a contender, but Amare + Wade may. As said, the effect of Amare's lack of defense has been distorted to his disadvantage in the environment of the current Suns.

I hope that I am not reading this correctly. You are not seriously suggesting that Wade and Amare would be a better combo than Wade/KG????
Amare is not even in the same class as KG, and if you pair them up with Wade, I don't see how Amare and Wade would be better in any aspect of the game than KG/Wade. I must be missing something here.

 

[SirStefan32]

I don't mind the talks. But if Amare goes for any of the rumored deals, we'd be more screwed than keeping him for now and trading him next off season. If the season is already screwed, then the management should give Amare at least the chance Dirk and JoeJ got to prove themselves without Nash dominating the ball.

Nash is the point guard. What do you want Suns to do? Give basketball to Amare on one end on the floor, have all 4 other players run to the other end and stand on one side so that Amare can do whatever he wants?

Also, how do you know that trading him now we'd be more screwed than trading him next off season? How do you know that Bulls would even offer Noah and Thomas for him? The point is that we don't know, and if a decent deal comes along that gives you some young guys, a good pick or two, and an expiring deal, you take it.
I am not saying trade him to NY for Marbury, but if a good deal comes along you have to take it.

 

[Covert Rain]

WIth a defensive center, amares defensive weaknesses wouldnt be an issue.

Yes it would because whoever your defensive center is would still have to come help as soon as Amare's guy blew buy him. Even if that center doesn't help, Amare would just get scored on. So, his defensive weaknesses would still be an issue.

As said, the effect of Amare's lack of defense has been distorted to his disadvantage in the environment of the current Suns.

Delusional. It's been highlighted for the past few seasons no matter what coach has been here or players. People have complained about Amare's defense long before this year.