Amare will be great but....

[clif]

This is not a player bashing thread


I think we had this discussion before ....

I really do think his game is so amazing, but it makes the other players stand and watch a little too much. No other players really looked like they could get into the flow.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

i think that's a lame excuse. amare was the only guy who showed up in the second half. nice of marion and q to wilt. they're gonna have to get a whole lot mentally stronger next year.

i'm most shocked about q. all season he had been our backbone. then he just curled up in a fetal position in the playoffs. so disappointing.

 

[Evil Ash]

i think that's a lame excuse. amare was the only guy who showed up in the second half. nice of marion and q to wilt. they're gonna have to get a whole lot mentally stronger next year.

i'm most shocked about q. all season he had been our backbone. then he just curled up in a fetal position in the playoffs. so disappointing.

Its easy to guard someone when all they do is stand at the 3 pt line and that sadly is what itseemed like the 2 of them did.

Great defensive teams take out specialists

 

[HooverDam]

i'm most shocked about q. all season he had been our backbone. then he just curled up in a fetal position in the playoffs. so disappointing.

Yah, got to give him somewhat of a break for it being his first playoff experience. I think the thing Q needs to work on most this offseason is a mid range game, if the three isn't available, pump fake, go in a few feet and nail a jumper. He is already good in the post, and from arc city (when he's on-he's streaky), he needs midrange. And like all the Suns, LEARN SOME DEFENSE

 

[elindholm]

I really do think his game is so amazing, but it makes the other players stand and watch a little too much. No other players really looked like they could get into the flow.

He became the focal point of the offense much more than he had ever been in the regular season. I mean, the guy just averaged nearly 40 points per game in a five-game series against the Spurs. That's partly because he was playing well, but it's partly because the Suns went to him on virtually every play.

If they restructure the offense so that it's more normal for Stoudemire to dominate the ball, I think everyone will learn how to play off of him. But in the regular season, there was a lot more sharing and movement. That's what the team was used to, and they couldn't adjust in time.

 

[clif]

i think that's a lame excuse. amare was the only guy who showed up in the second half. nice of marion and q to wilt. they're gonna have to get a whole lot mentally stronger next year.

i'm most shocked about q. all season he had been our backbone. then he just curled up in a fetal position in the playoffs. so disappointing.

I'm not making an excuse for anybody. I sure as hell am guilty of everytime the team came down I wanted the ball in Amare's hand, but I do believe it hinders other players from getting going

NOW... I will state that if you want to be a big time player (Q and Marion) you need to demand the ball or go get it yourself at times.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I really do think his game is so amazing, but it makes the other players stand and watch a little too much. No other players really looked like they could get into the flow.

He became the focal point of the offense much more than he had ever been in the regular season. I mean, the guy just averaged nearly 40 points per game in a five-game series against the Spurs. That's partly because he was playing well, but it's partly because the Suns went to him on virtually every play.

If they restructure the offense so that it's more normal for Stoudemire to get the ball, I think everyone will learn how to play off of him. But in the regular season, there was a lot more sharing and movement. That's what the team was used to, and they couldn't adjust in time.

yeah, i totally agree. dantoni needs to tweak the offense just a bit to provide for my cutting from his swing players. that would get them more involved when the play becomes almost all amare-driven. of course, that also mandates that amare become a better passer, which i wouldn't put past him either.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm not making an excuse for anybody. I sure as hell am guilty of everytime the team came down I wanted the ball in Amare's hand, but I do believe it hinders other players from getting going

NOW... I will state that if you want to be a big time player (Q and Marion) you need to demand the ball or go get it yourself at times.

agree.

 

[Gorilla]

Last season everyone critiziced him for not having a jumper, and look how quickly he developed one. We can't expect a kid that jumped from highschool to the NBA to come with all the knowledge to basketball. Give him time..... he will learn how to pass, how to rebound and how to play smart defense.

Besides if I was playing with Amare and he had the ball, I wouldn't take my eyes off him!! I wouldn't want to miss any of his amazing plays!!

 

[elindholm]

I agree with everyone else who says that Johnson will replace Marion in the "big three" next season. Marion will get his points on fast breaks and broken plays, the same way he always does, but he won't be featured in the half-court offense. Matchups took him out of his game against the Spurs and he's still a good player and a gifted scorer, but it makes more sense for Johnson to start getting those opportunities now.

 

[cly2tw]

Eric is so right. I have complained all over the regular season that we should have tried other offensive sets other than the certainly very successful Nash-led improvisation attacks. Marion and Q were not effective because the Spurs managed to contain the damage of Nash's directing structure. Parker was very effective and consequent at denying the simple p-n-r with Amare by overplaying the far side. Spurs' defensive spacing had been very to the point all series long with an exception of maybe game 4. We were forced into one-on-one offenses. And we never really practise them much in the regular season, the more you have to be in admiration of Amare who just learned and improved during the playoffs.

This last game is THE statement game from him despite the loss. He kept his focus all game long and kept the Suns in the game with husle and energy. The Spurs played great this game. But we still have ourselves to blame for the loss, particularly when the refs were slightly favoring us a bit. In the 3rd quarter, we were rushing it with Nash kind of tired from the 2nd q heroics and the team shot 2-14 for a stretch, with turnover, the way we lost the regular season home game to them by trying to force the tempo in the 4th q then. In the last minutes, we had bad luck that Amare's layup rimmed out and Jim had the bad pass.

 

[elindholm]

In the last minutes, we had bad luck that Amare's layup rimmed out and Jim had the bad pass.

Right. I just read some article on Yahoo or ESPN or someplace that said the Suns' defense failed them in the closing minutes. Well, not really. If Stoudemire's layup goes down (or the goaltend is called) and Jackson doesn't get careless, it's a different game. The Suns' defense down the stretch was really pretty decent, all things considered. They just couldn't get their offense on track.

 

[Cheesebeef]

as a side note - doesn anyone still want to make that ridiculous claim that Marion is every bit the player that T-Mac is? Not talking about trade or anything about who would be better on this team or anything like that - but staright up - Shawn can't carry T-mac's jock.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

as a side note - doesn anyone still want to make that ridiculous claim that Marion is every bit the player that T-Mac is? Not talking about trade or anything about who would be better on this team or anything like that - but staright up - Shawn can't carry T-mac's jock.

What pissed me off about Marion was that even when Bowen was matched up on JJ (great coaching by Pop by the way after JJ was the difference in Game 4), Shawn did absolutely nothing. Even his defense was terrible throughout the series. 8 points 10 rebounds when you're playing over 40 minutes a game with mediocre defense to boot is not superstar or Top 10 NBA player material.

 

[Cheesebeef]

In the last minutes, we had bad luck that Amare's layup rimmed out and Jim had the bad pass.

Right. I just read some article on Yahoo or ESPN or someplace that said the Suns' defense failed them in the closing minutes. Well, not really. If Stoudemire's layup goes down (or the goaltend is called) and Jackson doesn't get careless, it's a different game. The Suns' defense down the stretch was really pretty decent, all things considered. They just couldn't get their offense on track.

I don't know - we gave up layups to Parker, Ginboli and Duncan all at the end of the game once we cut it to 3. 3 seconds left on the clock - Duncan misses a layup, then gets a tip in. We miss on the other end and again can't stop them, giving up a layup to Ginobli - then we miss AGAIN and give up ANOTHER layup to Parker. Two misses - three layups given up - I'd say both the offense and DEFENSE feel apart at the end. We never had a chance to cut it to 1.

 

[fordronken]

What pissed me off about Marion was that even when Bowen was matched up on JJ (great coaching by Pop by the way after JJ was the difference in Game 4), Shawn did absolutely nothing. Even his defense was terrible throughout the series. 8 points 10 rebounds when you're playing over 40 minutes a game with mediocre defense to boot is not superstar or Top 10 NBA player material.

Totally agree. If Calvin Booth played 40 minutes and finished with 8 and 10, people would be saying he could have played a little better. This is Shawn Marion.

By the way, someone should inform him that he shouldn't ever pass, or try to take a player of his size or shorter off the dribble. Ever.

 

[Joe Mama]

Amare was going one-on-one because San Antonio was giving it to him, and he was making the shots. The other players didn't get involved because they were well guarded. All year long defenses have collapsed on Nash and Amare leaving open shots for the other guys. That wasn't the case in this series. For the most part San Antonio stuck with their men. They are the only team I can remember that has dared to defend Amare Stoudemire with one person.

It looked like that bad pass by Jim Jackson came on a designed play. It's too bad because Amare could have gone one-on-one again in that play.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaplin]

as a side note - doesn anyone still want to make that ridiculous claim that Marion is every bit the player that T-Mac is? Not talking about trade or anything about who would be better on this team or anything like that - but staright up - Shawn can't carry T-mac's jock.

Puhlease.

Who cares? Really? I mean, sure, Marion might not be "as good" as TMac, that doesn't change many opinions that Marion is preferable on the Suns to some people. This kind of comment just inspires arguements and offers nothing to the discussion.

 

[scotsman13]

as a side note - doesn anyone still want to make that ridiculous claim that Marion is every bit the player that T-Mac is? Not talking about trade or anything about who would be better on this team or anything like that - but staright up - Shawn can't carry T-mac's jock.

marion has done something that tmac can only dream about. and as many points of tmac score and as great as he is as a one on one player he still hasnt reached the height that marion has. simple put making it out of the first round of the playoffs. and based on the build of the rockets have i wouldnt count on that happening any time soon.

 

[JPlay]

Yah, got to give him somewhat of a break for it being his first playoff experience. I think the thing Q needs to work on most this offseason is a mid range game, if the three isn't available, pump fake, go in a few feet and nail a jumper. He is already good in the post, and from arc city (when he's on-he's streaky), he needs midrange. And like all the Suns, LEARN SOME DEFENSE

Great observation. He needs that mid range jumper that JJ has. He also needs to work on his post game. Get back to that.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

marion has done something that tmac can only dream about. and as many points of tmac score and as great as he is as a one on one player he still hasnt reached the height that marion has. simple put making it out of the first round of the playoffs. and based on the build of the rockets have i wouldnt count on that happening any time soon.

Sorry, but this is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Yeah, I can see why some would think that Marion is a better fit on the Suns than McGrady (I don't see it personally) but to think Marion is better because his team got beat in the conference finals while McGrady's lost in the first round is simply laughable. I guess then that Amare Stoudemire hasn't reached the height of Robert Horry. Or Steve Nash hasn't reached the height of Chauncey Billups. Really I don't know why I even respond to this nonsense. Anyone who can't see who's the better player between Marion and McGrady obviously watches no basketball that doesn't take place in Phoenix.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Sorry, but this is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Yeah, I can see why some would think that Marion is a better fit on the Suns than McGrady (I don't see it personally) but to think Marion is better because his team got beat in the conference finals while McGrady's lost in the first round is simply laughable. I guess then that Amare Stoudemire hasn't reached the height of Robert Horry. Or Steve Nash hasn't reached the height of Chauncey Billups. Really I don't know why I even respond to this nonsense. Anyone who can't see who's the better player between Marion and McGrady obviously watches no basketball that doesn't take place in Phoenix.

REVEREND!

 

[Chaplin]

You guys are making this sound like McGrady is this basketball god compared to Shawn Marion. Is Tracy McGrady better? Yes, in points, assists and creating his own shot/clutch shooting. But Marion is a far better rebounder and a somewhat better defender and athlete. A team can be built around McGrady, a team CAN'T be built around Marion.

The point is, taken as a whole, McGrady might be better, but the difference is pretty small.

 

[Cheesebeef]

a somewhat better defender and athlete. A team can be built around McGrady, a team CAN'T be built around Marion.

his defense is debatable and there's no way Shawn's a better athlete. And your last sentence speaks volumes as to the difference between players - to say that the difference between a player you can build around and a player that is a complementary player is very small is laughable Chap - but you are a huge Marion homer so it makes sense you would make that claim.

That being said - I am in no rush to trade Shawn. We stay the course for the next year and hopefully we get back to the same point and beyond with a little more experience. If not - we deal with it then, but no major pieces of this club should be going anywhere this offseason (unless something just too good to be true is offered to us - and I can't fathom what that could even possibly be.)

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You guys are making this sound like McGrady is this basketball god compared to Shawn Marion. Is Tracy McGrady better? Yes, in points, assists and creating his own shot/clutch shooting. But Marion is a far better rebounder and a somewhat better defender and athlete. A team can be built around McGrady, a team CAN'T be built around Marion.

The point is, taken as a whole, McGrady might be better, but the difference is pretty small.

this will prolly be marion's only all-nba selection for his career. mcgrady will be making first, second, or third teams for his entire career.

and you're joking if you think marion's a better athlete, even slightly.

mcgrady is a better player. a ton? no. but definitely better. it's not a question.