And Rumors Start: Fitzgerald

[Diamondback Jay]

Joe Montana was picked with the 82nd pick.

Tom Brady was picked with the 199th pick (A compensatory pick)

Brett Favre was drafted 33rd overall.

 

[earthsci]

Dan Marino lasted to 26.

Joe Montana was picked with the 82nd pick.

Tom Brady was picked with the 199th pick (A compensatory pick)

Yep, good QBs picked after #1. Marino had a lousy senior year. Montana had an OK college career. Brady was the same. Besides, you guys are arguing backwards now. None of these guys were considered great or can't miss prospects.

 

[earthsci]

How do you guys think that the Cardinals have done drafting QBs, especially later in the draft?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Tony Sacca was the 46th overall selection .

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Also, he wasn't "highly heralded?"

Leinart went 37-2, 10,679 total yards, 109 total TDs, one Heisman, two national titles and came an armpit hair short of winning a third. He put up major numbers all across the board in a pro style offense, and was considered the patriarch of some truly great USC teams. Leinart was considered as close to a "can't miss pick" as there was.

 

[earthsci]

Also, he wasn't "highly heralded?"

Leinart went 37-2, 10,679 total yards, 109 total TDs, one Heisman, two national titles and came an armpit hair short of winning a third. He put up major numbers all across the board in a pro style offense, and was considered the patriarch of some truly great USC teams. Leinart was considered as close to a "can't miss pick" as there was.

"Highly heralded" is a hell of a lot different than "the greatest QB ever to step foot on a college football field" isn't it? He was also considered to be so good because he was surrounded by great talent.

I would much rather figure another way to get Andrew Luck than trade Larry Fitzgerald, that's for sure. I just brought up the conversation because maybe that's what it would take. I do know one thing though, I've seen a hell of a lot more really good teams with really good QBs and iffy WRs than really good teams with really iffy QBs and really good WRs. How did Fitzgerald and Boldin work out for us before Warner got his groove?

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Yep, good QBs picked after #1. Marino had a lousy senior year. Montana had an OK college career. Brady was the same. Besides, you guys are arguing backwards now. None of these guys were considered great or can't miss prospects.

Actually, Marino's stock plummeted because rumors of drug use and knee injuries. His numbers went down in the touchdown department, but his yardage was not much far off from what he had in his junior year.

Coming out of the draft, he and Elway were considered "surest bets."

To say Joe Montana had an "ok" college career is grossly underselling how good he was.

 

[NJCardFan]

As much as I love Fitz, as with any big time receiver, he's nothing without another big time receiver on the other side. Rice had his Taylor. Ervin had his Harper. Bruce had his Holt. Clayton had Duper. And Fitz had Boldin. One receiver made the other. Boldin already had shown excellent skills in 2003 but when Fitz came on board, they became one of the best receiver combos in the league. This is why getting rid of Boldin was bad juju. Biggest mistake this team has made in a long time. Breaston is a #3. Always has been and always will be. I think if we had Boldin still, we wouldn't be this bad.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

"Highly heralded" is a hell of a lot different than "the greatest QB ever to step foot on a college football field" isn't it? He was also considered to be so good because he was surrounded by great talent.

Read the publications, who called him the greatest college QB of the decade.

Leinart didn't pan out in Phoenix. Doesn't mean he wasn't an exceptional college QB who was considered "can't miss" when drafted.

I would much rather figure another way to get Andrew Luck than trade Larry Fitzgerald, that's for sure. I just brought up the conversation because maybe that's what it would take. I do know one thing though, I've seen a hell of a lot more really good teams with really good QBs and iffy WRs than really good teams with really iffy QBs and really good WRs. How did Fitzgerald and Boldin work out for us before Warner got his groove?

I recall Fitzgerald put up 3,135 yards and 24 touchdowns, while Boldin put up 4,044 yards and 20 touchdowns before Kurt Warner ever made an impact on the team.

Fitz and Boldin did just fine without Warner.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

As much as I love Fitz, as with any big time receiver, he's nothing without another big time receiver on the other side. Rice had his Taylor. Ervin had his Harper. Bruce had his Holt. Clayton had Duper. And Fitz had Boldin. One receiver made the other. Boldin already had shown excellent skills in 2003 but when Fitz came on board, they became one of the best receiver combos in the league. This is why getting rid of Boldin was bad juju. Biggest mistake this team has made in a long time. Breaston is a #3. Always has been and always will be. I think if we had Boldin still, we wouldn't be this bad.

Absolutely. The two accentuated the strengths of each other, and complimented each other very well.

Now, the defensive game planning is simple.. Shut down Fitzgerald.

 

[earthsci]

Actually, Marino's stock plummeted because rumors of drug use and knee injuries. His numbers went down in the touchdown department, but his yardage was not much far off from what he had in his junior year.

Coming out of the draft, he and Elway were considered "surest bets."

To say Joe Montana had an "ok" college career is grossly underselling how good he was.

Marino had a sub-par senior year. On 2 fewer attempts than his Junior year his percentage went down from 59.5 to 58.5, his total yards down 444 yds, his TDs went down from 37 to 17, his yards per game went down by 40 yds and his rating went down from 143.1 to 115.2. Drug use rumors and knee injuries contributed to his fall in the draft but to discount his senior years performance is myopic.

Montana didn't even start two full years.

Again, you are convoluting this discussion. They weren't as highly touted as Luck. Not by a mile.

 

[ajcardfan]

How do you guys think that the Cardinals have done drafting QBs, especially later in the draft?

Lomax and Plummer were both drafted in the second round. Those are the only QB picks that were very good.


Skelton, we gave up two picks and player to get. I don't think he's going to be all that good, but it's the most aggressive move to draft a QB by the Cardinals that I can remember. (Granted, neither the picks or the player were very flashy.)

 

[ajcardfan]

Read the publications, who called him the greatest college QB of the decade.

Leinart didn't pan out in Phoenix. Doesn't mean he wasn't an exceptional college QB who was considered "can't miss" when drafted.



I recall Fitzgerald put up 3,135 yards and 24 touchdowns, while Boldin put up 4,044 yards and 20 touchdowns before Kurt Warner ever made an impact on the team.

Fitz and Boldin did just fine without Warner.

Fitz is on track to be top 10 in both yards and receptions this year. Considering the crap we've had at QB, I think you can argue this season is one of his best.

 

[earthsci]

Read the publications, who called him the greatest college QB of the decade.

First of all, college QB doesn't mean good NFL QB. Who won the Heisman this year and how is he projected as opposed to Luck?

Jason White did pretty good didn't he?

Doesn't mean he wasn't an exceptional college QB who was considered "can't miss" when drafted.

He was certainly highly touted but I do remember a lot of arguing about whether we should draft him or Cutler. There was also a QB drafted before him.

I recall Fitzgerald put up 3,135 yards and 24 touchdowns, while Boldin put up 4,044 yards and 20 touchdowns before Kurt Warner ever made an impact on the team.

Fitz and Boldin did just fine without Warner.

And how did the Cardinals do?

 

[Russ Smith]

Really?

Coming out of USC, he was dubbed by some talking heads to be "the greatest QB ever to step foot on a college football field" and "destined for greatness on the NFL level." He played too in a pro-style offense and won big in it.

Don't let revisionist history cloud your judgement. Leinart was highly heralded coming out of USC.

Most successful and most NFL ready. Everyone knew he didn't have a cannon for an arm and he played on a very good team where he had open guys regularly.

The disappointment on Matt is huge because the intangibles were supposed to be his strength, everyone liked him at USC, played well in big games, seemed to be a natural leader. honestly he never recovered after the Bears game we fire the OC, promote the QB coach and Matt lost his sounding board and struggled. Whiz came in and they obviously didn't click.

 

[desertdawg]

The disappointment on Matt is huge because the intangibles were supposed to be his strength, everyone liked him at USC, played well in big games, seemed to be a natural leader. honestly he never recovered after the Bears game we fire the OC, promote the QB coach and Matt lost his sounding board and struggled. Whiz came in and they obviously didn't click.

This.

 

[earthsci]

Again, I don't want to get rid of Fitzgerald. It's just a subject for conversation. I have no illusions that we wouldn't be better with Luck and Fitz as our #1 than Luck without Fitz. Hopefully we'll stumble on a good QB.

 

[ajcardfan]

As much as I love Fitz, as with any big time receiver, he's nothing without another big time receiver on the other side. Rice had his Taylor. Ervin had his Harper. Bruce had his Holt. Clayton had Duper. And Fitz had Boldin. One receiver made the other. Boldin already had shown excellent skills in 2003 but when Fitz came on board, they became one of the best receiver combos in the league. This is why getting rid of Boldin was bad juju. Biggest mistake this team has made in a long time. Breaston is a #3. Always has been and always will be. I think if we had Boldin still, we wouldn't be this bad.

I agree that letting go of Boldin was bad, but you are downplaying Fitz too much. Fitz is 8th in catches this season and 10th in receptions this season. Boldin is 24th and 27th, playing alongside two former Pro Bowlers. (I realize the difference in offenses already.)

 

[WildBB]

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/256451-pats-a-destination-for-fitzgerald


Perhaps one day the football gods will give us a player who wants to be "THE GUY" that turned this organization around and produced a Championship to one of the most unsuccessful sports organizations of all time.

Sorry to rant, but this week, strictly football wise, is VERY depressing.

Uhm....Warner?!

 

[Diamondback Jay]

First of all, college QB doesn't mean good NFL QB. Who won the Heisman this year and how is he projected as opposed to Luck?

Jason White did pretty good didn't he?

You're comparing apples to oranges here.

Noone.. Not one single person thought Jason White was going to project to anything on the NFL level. On the flipside, a large number of people believed Leinart was going to make a seemless and successful transition to the NFL.

Again, the point I'm trying to make here is when it comes to the draft, the term "can't miss" doesn't exist. I could come on here and make an entire thread on the players who were projected to do good things on the NFL level and failed miserably.

I don't give up Fitzgerald to move up and get Luck.. Fitzgerald is proven to be one of the top WR in the NFL, who people are grossly underselling the ability of it seems. Luck looks good on paper, but is not someone I'd want to see Arizona sacrifice one of their best players, who still has a lot of miles left to go, for.

Trading him for Luck would be taking one step forward, three steps back. I'd rather them stand pat and take the best available QB on the market when Arizona picks, whether it be Ryan Mallett or Blaine Gabbert. Hell, I'd rather see them take Ricky Stansi, Christian Ponder or Pat Devlin in the second than trade up for Luck... And I LIKE Andrew Luck.

And how did the Cardinals do?

If you think that was by fault of either Boldin or Fitzgerald, I honestly don't know what to tell you.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Fitz is on track to be top 10 in both yards and receptions this year. Considering the crap we've had at QB, I think you can argue this season is one of his best.

I agree. He's had zero stability behind center, and has faced a large amount of double coverage, yet he's still done very well all facts considering.

 

[Totally_Red]

Fitz has a NO-TRADE contract. That should prevent the Cardinals from shopping him around, even if they were dumb enough to consider it.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Most successful and most NFL ready. Everyone knew he didn't have a cannon for an arm and he played on a very good team where he had open guys regularly.

I agree Russ.. And I often have stated arm strength can often times be grossly overrated.

 

[ajcardfan]

Fitz has a NO-TRADE contract. That should prevent the Cardinals from shopping him around, even if they were dumb enough to consider it.

He can waive that clause though. There are certainly some places he'd be willing to consider a trade to. What WR wouldn't at least listen to a trade proposal that would hook him up with Tom Brady? The teams that would get us into position to draft Luck are ones he would almost certainly not listen to.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Montana didn't even start two full years.

Again, you are convoluting this discussion. They weren't as highly touted as Luck. Not by a mile.

Also, Montana played in an era where freshman NEVER started, and sophomores had to be practically super human to get the chance to.

Sorry, but both Dan Marino and Joe Montana had more shine coming out of college than Luck.