. . . and the Ugly.

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And finally, the ugly. this won't be a diatribe about a person (sort of), a philosophy, or reasons for the loss. no, instead this will be about a single play. and it is dedicated to d-dogg. i title the "Ugly" for this game . . . "heart and intensity."

you all know the play i'm talking about. the fumble. the play that levi brown (he who was taken instead of adrian peterson) just quit. the play that levi brown played two hand touch with the edge rusher who squashed our QB causing a fumble and turnover. the play where the supposed "intensity" that was displayed for the first two and half games and was supposedly to mark levi brown's entire career ended prematurely. i was disgusted with this play.

now i'm not commenting on levi's play the entire game. and i'm not predicting him to become the next big. i am just commenting on this single play. why is that? b/c frankly, a single play such as this can mean a game. you can have the game of your life and have a single play negate everything if it's the right play, at the right time. that was a simply terrible play by levi. and for those of you who want to say, "well, it was his first game back . . . " i say this - if you're not ready to play, don't play. if you strap it on and get on that field, be ready to play. every play. for the entire play. just plain ugly.


(d-dogg - just a little ribbing . . . had to be done in light our discussions from the last week. will you admit that you've now seen something (even just a smidge) other than "heart and intensity" outta the big fella, even if just for one crucial awful play?)

 

[D-Dogg]

For one awful play, sure. But it is the exception in his play, not the rule. I stand by my earlier assessment of Levi. He's no Big.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

For one awful play, sure. But it is the exception in his play, not the rule. I stand by my earlier assessment of Levi. He's no Big.

i'm not calling him big. the only reason we had the discussion was b/c i still think it a mistake to pass on peterson for leonar-er-levi. he doesn't have to be big bad to still be a mistake of a selection.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

and it was one awful play where he stopped playing. where he, shall we say, lacked "intensity?" one awful play can lose a QB for a season. one awful play can cost a game. as a result one awful play can mean the difference between the playoffs and sitting at home yet again. it can mean the end of the world as we know it and i feel fine.

 

[D-Dogg]

it can mean the end of the world as we know it and i feel fine.

You are in a great mood tonight.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You are in a great mood tonight.

a ridiculously long and stupid night followed by cheese dragging my ass outta bed this morning to go watch gut wrenching has made me a bit slap happy.

 

[Alan]

"Peterson ran four times for 27 yards on the opening series, including a 20-yard touchdown, but got only eight more carries. He fumbled on his last one, leading to the field goal that sealed Dallas' victory. He finished with a season-low 63 yards."

You know, one awful play can cost a game. as a result one awful play can mean the difference between the playoffs and sitting at home yet again. it can mean the end of the world as we know it and i feel fine.

 

[D-Dogg]

Touche Alan.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

"Peterson ran four times for 27 yards on the opening series, including a 20-yard touchdown, but got only eight more carries. He fumbled on his last one, leading to the field goal that sealed Dallas' victory. He finished with a season-low 63 yards."

You know, one awful play can cost a game. as a result one awful play can mean the difference between the playoffs and sitting at home yet again. it can mean the end of the world as we know it and i feel fine.

lol. i'm not saying that peterson is going to be perfect or that levi needs to be perfect. they're human and they'll have errors. i was just playing off d-dogg's comments that all we've seen from levi is "heart and intensity," to which i responded asking whether we had a large enough sample size to determine that based on his injury and then in his first game back there's that one play that he wasn't "intense" and it could be the reason (among others) that we lost the game.

my original point was i think peterson the better player in the long run.

 

[CardNots]

I would venture to say, Peterson might very well be the better player but Levi Brown will play in the league longer.

 

[Garthshort]

Levi Brown

In the Republic, Levi Brown stated that on the sack, because of crowd noise, he couldn't hear the snap count and that caused him to be beat, resulting in a fumble. Of course, we should remember that on the previous play we took an unacceptable delay of game penalty, which reved up the crowd noise.

 

[RonF]

There were plenty of mistakes made during the game and they were'nt all made by Levi Brown either.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I would venture to say, Peterson might very well be the better player but Levi Brown will play in the league longer.

not at his current rate of injury.

i actually agree, but that's not shocking for a rb.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

In the Republic, Levi Brown stated that on the sack, because of crowd noise, he couldn't hear the snap count and that caused him to be beat, resulting in a fumble. Of course, we should remember that on the previous play we took an unacceptable delay of game penalty, which reved up the crowd noise.

he did get two hands on the defender and then clearly let him go. whether he was late or not due to crowd noise didn't affect the fact that he quit.

 

[Russ Smith]

In the Republic, Levi Brown stated that on the sack, because of crowd noise, he couldn't hear the snap count and that caused him to be beat, resulting in a fumble. Of course, we should remember that on the previous play we took an unacceptable delay of game penalty, which reved up the crowd noise.

Couldn't he just watch the guy in front of him take off and go around him and realize they probably snapped the ball?

 

[GreenCard]

I wonder if Grimm and Whiz will point that play out to Levi in a team meeting while watching the game tape of that play?

 

[D-Dogg]

Hey Ouchie, I just watched Cardinals Live and they made a great point (backed up on the video) as they played it over and over again.

What happened on that play was that Levi didn't know the play. Kurt went into a five step drop, and Levi blocked like it was a three step drop...he pushed his guy outside and released on him. When he turned and saw that Kurt was a lot deeper than he thought he'd be, he realized he messed up and kind of stutter stepped and went to try and salvage his mistake.

It is very easy to see this after they pointed it out, and if it WERE a three step drop, his push of the guy and turn would have been just fine of a play. On a five step drop, he just handed the guy Kurt's ass on a platter.

So it wasn't, IMO, a problem of intensity but a problem of not knowing the play. And no, he should not have stayed locked up with the guy (for the play he thought he was blocking for)...he was using his aggressiveness against him, to shove him far back away from the play, release and watch Kurt's back for any unblocked guys. He actually executed it ok if it were a three step drop...disaster for what the play actually was.

Rookie mistake. Hopefully Grimm will make sure he never makes it again.

 

[Mulli]

Hey Ouchie, I just watched Cardinals Live and they made a great point (backed up on the video) as they played it over and over again.

What happened on that play was that Levi didn't know the play. Kurt went into a five step drop, and Levi blocked like it was a three step drop...he pushed his guy outside and released on him. When he turned and saw that Kurt was a lot deeper than he thought he'd be, he realized he messed up and kind of stutter stepped and went to try and salvage his mistake.

It is very easy to see this after they pointed it out, and if it WERE a three step drop, his push of the guy and turn would have been just fine of a play. On a five step drop, he just handed the guy Kurt's ass on a platter.

So it wasn't, IMO, a problem of intensity but a problem of not knowing the play. And no, he should not have stayed locked up with the guy (for the play he thought he was blocking for)...he was using his aggressiveness against him, to shove him far back away from the play, release and watch Kurt's back for any unblocked guys. He actually executed it ok if it were a three step drop...disaster for what the play actually was.

Rookie mistake. Hopefully Grimm will make sure he never makes it again.

And that analysis is seldom found on Bspn.

 

[Rats]

Hey Ouchie, I just watched Cardinals Live and they made a great point (backed up on the video) as they played it over and over again.

What happened on that play was that Levi didn't know the play. Kurt went into a five step drop, and Levi blocked like it was a three step drop...he pushed his guy outside and released on him. When he turned and saw that Kurt was a lot deeper than he thought he'd be, he realized he messed up and kind of stutter stepped and went to try and salvage his mistake.

It is very easy to see this after they pointed it out, and if it WERE a three step drop, his push of the guy and turn would have been just fine of a play. On a five step drop, he just handed the guy Kurt's ass on a platter.

So it wasn't, IMO, a problem of intensity but a problem of not knowing the play. And no, he should not have stayed locked up with the guy (for the play he thought he was blocking for)...he was using his aggressiveness against him, to shove him far back away from the play, release and watch Kurt's back for any unblocked guys. He actually executed it ok if it were a three step drop...disaster for what the play actually was.

Rookie mistake. Hopefully Grimm will make sure he never makes it again.

If you go back and look at Ouchies thread ....the Bad....I made this very point Sunday night. I said that you can not let the speed rusher come around the blindside when your Qb is in the 5 step drop...he never sees him and does not have a chance to tuck the ball away or throw it. That was definitly on Brown blowing the assignment.

 

[D-Dogg]

If you go back and look at Ouchies thread ....the Bad....I made this very point Sunday night. I said that you can not let the speed rusher come around the blindside when your Qb is in the 5 step drop...he never sees him and does not have a chance to tuck the ball away or throw it. That was definitly on Brown blowing the assignment.

Yep, good call Rats. Once it was pointed out, I saw it clear as day. I have a tendancy when watching line play to watch the lineman too closely and forget to watch the QB too. That was a case of it. Levi was blocking for the wrong play there...you could see his body snap rigid for a second when he turned around and didn't see warner closer to the LOS and realized what he had just done.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Hey Ouchie, I just watched Cardinals Live and they made a great point (backed up on the video) as they played it over and over again.

What happened on that play was that Levi didn't know the play. Kurt went into a five step drop, and Levi blocked like it was a three step drop...he pushed his guy outside and released on him. When he turned and saw that Kurt was a lot deeper than he thought he'd be, he realized he messed up and kind of stutter stepped and went to try and salvage his mistake.

It is very easy to see this after they pointed it out, and if it WERE a three step drop, his push of the guy and turn would have been just fine of a play. On a five step drop, he just handed the guy Kurt's ass on a platter.

So it wasn't, IMO, a problem of intensity but a problem of not knowing the play. And no, he should not have stayed locked up with the guy (for the play he thought he was blocking for)...he was using his aggressiveness against him, to shove him far back away from the play, release and watch Kurt's back for any unblocked guys. He actually executed it ok if it were a three step drop...disaster for what the play actually was.

Rookie mistake. Hopefully Grimm will make sure he never makes it again.

sorry d, gotta disagree here. yeah the push was text book for a three step drop, but if there's no other passrusher you're supposed to re-engage the defender in the event a play takes longer than originally planned . . . that happens in the nfl y'know? a lot.

moreover, don't you think not knowing the play is a reflection of a lack of "intensity?" i do. either he was lackadaisacal in learning his playbook at some point or he wasn't listening in the huddle, or he wasn't focusing in on his responsibility at the line. regardless, it was an error on his part. a lack of "intensity."

 

[D-Dogg]

sorry d, gotta disagree here. yeah the push was text book for a three step drop, but if there's no other passrusher you're supposed to re-engage the defender in the event a play takes longer than originally planned . . . that happens in the nfl y'know? a lot.

moreover, don't you think not knowing the play is a reflection of a lack of "intensity?" i do. either he was lackadaisacal in learning his playbook at some point or he wasn't listening in the huddle, or he wasn't focusing in on his responsibility at the line. regardless, it was an error on his part. a lack of "intensity."

Ouchie, he did...he turned around to look elsewhere and re-engage if needed, and realized he basically gave his guy a slingshot right to Warner. He DID turn to re-engage or pick up a blitzing LB or whatever might be coming, and saw the damage he did.

And No, I think it a reflection of hm being a "rookie" who is going to make "rookie" mistakes. Or errors on his part. Sign of a "rookie."

 

[WisconsinCard]

sorry d, gotta disagree here. yeah the push was text book for a three step drop, but if there's no other passrusher you're supposed to re-engage the defender in the event a play takes longer than originally planned . . . that happens in the nfl y'know? a lot.

moreover, don't you think not knowing the play is a reflection of a lack of "intensity?" i do. either he was lackadaisacal in learning his playbook at some point or he wasn't listening in the huddle, or he wasn't focusing in on his responsibility at the line. regardless, it was an error on his part. a lack of "intensity."

All the other linemen blocked for the 5 step drop. It was just LB didn't know the play. As far as re-engaging, he was maybe looking to head down field to block someone else as he thought the ball would already be thrown. So it could be he was trying to be too aggressive.

 

[JeffGollin]

and it was one awful play where he stopped playing. where he, shall we say, lacked "intensity?" one awful play can lose a QB for a season. one awful play can cost a game..

This entire thread walks, talks and smells like a veiled attempt to bash Rod Graves still again (this time for not drafting Peterson).

The one "awful play" Ouchie refers to was Levi's first appearance in 3 - 4 weeks and his first play at the left tackle position ever as a pro (you know - the position considered by many to be the most important and challenging on the O-line).

Glenn Parker's telestrator analysis of that play was that it appeared that Levi thought the play involved a 3-step drop entailing a short "pop and release" by the offensive lineman. Instead the drop was more like 5-steps (and, since Warner held on a second or so longer) more like a 7-stepper.

Parker (a former Buffalo O-lineman by the way) conceded that perception would be that Levi quit on the play whereas Glenn felt it was due to a mental error made by a rookie against a very good edge rusher.

Regarding Peterson - there was no issue with his ability. The risk in drafting him was that he was injury prone (This could still jump up at any time and bite the Vikings in the butt). A value judgment was made - (1) ignore a pressing need at tackle and draft an injury-prone superstar instead or (2) fill the need with a less spectacular but safer pick. (Normally, I personally would have opted to draft the superstar (i.e. "best available player"), but the durability issue would have made me think long and hard.

Another factor which Ouchie conveniently ignores was the presence on our roster of Edgerrin James (who underperformed behind a subpar O-line last year and for which Graves and Green took considerable heat). Last time I looked, Edge ranks 3rd in the NFL in yards gained with 600+ yards.

 

[GreenCard]

Did anyone see Wells on that play?