Andy Isabella

[DVontel]

The question was
Do u think is right drafting a nickle corner with an early second round pick?
Then I add obviously no since the kid is not gifted athletically so he can have just a limited role

Personally I think Murphy is one of the best players of a bad defense, so I don't criticize him but the fact of him being drafted so early

Yea I did & still do

 

[GimmedaBall]

In the past, SK's approach to the draft is to go for Best Player Available at the draft spot---if you need a slot corner but a OL is higher on the value board, you take the OL.

Wonder if that is still the approach? With both KM and K2 developing the O, do we stick with BPA or get a guy who is going to fill a need within the K2's offense who is going to mesh with KM's style of QB??

 

[BritCard]

I wish Andy Isabella was as good as Ray-Ray McCloud...

 

[GimmedaBall]

I wish Andy Isabella was as good as Ray-Ray McCloud...

Are you being cheeky about AI? (How's that for some UK slang?) What stat line are you looking at?

He's a kick return specialist who has been with three teams in three years. 19 catches in three years for 106 yards as a WR. Yup, cheeky.

 

[Russ Smith]

Exactly. ******** play call to have a crucial play like that with Isabella as the primary target.

I obviously don't know but I don't think he was the primary guy there I think Kyler was looking left first it wasn't there and then he reset and then with the free runner he let it go.

I do understand the idea if he WAS the primary there. It's late in the game you need a TD to tie it so maybe you try and trick them, throw to the guy you never throw to. But if that's the game plan with Andy, again don't lead him to the corner over the shoulder, make it some pattern to the middle where he's facing Kyler and can body catch it.

I have no problem with throwing to Andy, he just has to catch it or draw the penalty.

 

[Russ Smith]

One thing with Kyler, like with Wilson in Seattle, he may be good enough that we can afford to spend picks and money more on the defense and let Kyler make do. Now the OL has been quite good this year so I'd like to keep that largely intact, and we do need another Wr IMO just because of the age of Fitz, but for the most part I think the high picks next year and any big FA signings we should focus on D.

We have no idea if Jones will be 100% when he comes back, my guess is Peters won't come back. So we need DL, LB and obviously CB's.

I also have concerns with Keim's ability to find WR's, other than Kirk who has he really found? Look at Pitt, yes they have Ben and they have a system but they are really good at drafting Wr's. Juju 2nd rounder 62nd pick, Diontae Johnson 3rd rounder 66th pick, Claypool 2nd round 49th pick. 3 guys who are all so far much better than Andy and only one of them was earlier than Andy, Juju was the 62nd pick just like Andy.

So yeah I'd love to add one more good WR but I'd honestly at this point be more interested in loading up the defense, see if we can get the Ravens to trade us Hollywood Brown in the offseason for not too much, or get another WR, I think the need is defense

 

[splitsecond]

One thing with Kyler, like with Wilson in Seattle, he may be good enough that we can afford to spend picks and money more on the defense and let Kyler make do. Now the OL has been quite good this year so I'd like to keep that largely intact, and we do need another Wr IMO just because of the age of Fitz, but for the most part I think the high picks next year and any big FA signings we should focus on D.

We have no idea if Jones will be 100% when he comes back, my guess is Peters won't come back. So we need DL, LB and obviously CB's.

I also have concerns with Keim's ability to find WR's, other than Kirk who has he really found? Look at Pitt, yes they have Ben and they have a system but they are really good at drafting Wr's. Juju 2nd rounder 62nd pick, Diontae Johnson 3rd rounder 66th pick, Claypool 2nd round 49th pick. 3 guys who are all so far much better than Andy and only one of them was earlier than Andy, Juju was the 62nd pick just like Andy.

So yeah I'd love to add one more good WR but I'd honestly at this point be more interested in loading up the defense, see if we can get the Ravens to trade us Hollywood Brown in the offseason for not too much, or get another WR, I think the need is defense

Hollywood is criminally underused in Baltimore, but does he bring anything all that much different than Kirk?

 

[Russ Smith]

Hollywood is criminally underused in Baltimore, but does he bring anything all that much different than Kirk?

NO I want to keep Kirk I'm just saying if he wants out, and he and Kyler are buddies, it makes sense to see if we can get him for a decent value.

 

[splitsecond]

NO I want to keep Kirk I'm just saying if he wants out, and he and Kyler are buddies, it makes sense to see if we can get him for a decent value.

I think I was looking at it from the perspective of replacing someone other than Isabella with Hollywood, spaced what I was even reading for a minute I guess. As a 4th, hell yes. Not sure why he is so quiet in Baltimore this year honestly. Ravens offense just isn't quite the juggernaut it was supposed to be.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think I was looking at it from the perspective of replacing someone other than Isabella with Hollywood, spaced what I was even reading for a minute I guess. As a 4th, hell yes. Not sure why he is so quiet in Baltimore this year honestly. Ravens offense just isn't quite the juggernaut it was supposed to be.

It seems like he's just not on the same page as his QB and that's a real issue, when he's open they go somewhere else or run, when they look to him, he's not open. There's some talk he and Lamar are not getting along but I think its' just the typical thing Wr's with a Running QB often feel underused, it is what it is.

 

[Jetstream Green]

NO I want to keep Kirk I'm just saying if he wants out, and he and Kyler are buddies, it makes sense to see if we can get him for a decent value.

Who says we cannot keep both

 

[Russ Smith]

Who says we cannot keep both

I want to I meant if Brown wants out I'd try to get him in the offseason.

i still think this offense is one Wr away from being really dangerous, but our needs on defense are so much bigger so i would use most draft capital there.

So you then have to look for either a WR steal in the draft, or a steal where you can get a guy like Brown for less than he's worth because the Ravens under utilize him so much his value is low

I looked at a Raven review site and they were saying theyr'e starting to get down on Brown because after everyone agreed he was being totally misused, he has responded with 5 catches in 15 targets since his famous complaint tweet and they're starting to think it's him not Lamar and the playcalls.

He's an intriguing one he's so light there's just not much history of guys that size being good, but the ones who were are guys like Mel Gray, different era obviously but you're not going to convince me it's HARDER to play WR now than it was when Gray played? More PI's, less hits on defenseless Wr etc. I still think a guy like that CAN be effective he just needs to be in an offense that uses him right, Tampa would be perfect for him with ARians love of deep shots but I think we could be good for him too. But I'm not giving up much to get him his value is very low right now

 

[BritCard]

Are you being cheeky about AI? (How's that for some UK slang?) What stat line are you looking at?

He's a kick return specialist who has been with three teams in three years. 19 catches in three years for 106 yards as a WR. Yup, cheeky.

Exactly. I wish he was that good.

He now has a defined role as a returner, gadget player, occasional RB, Jet sweeper and WR. He made a nice catch yesterday. He serves a purpose and the Steelers have trust in him to the point they have a number of plays designed only for him. And they signed him just before the season.

Conversely we can't find a role for AI. Every jetsweep he's run has gone nowhere. His lone kick return he's fumbled. They haven't thrown a deep pass to him since he couldn't track the ball vs the Cowboys. He has no trust or defined role.

Andy wishes he was Ray-Ray McCloud.

 

[BritCard]

It seems like he's just not on the same page as his QB and that's a real issue, when he's open they go somewhere else or run, when they look to him, he's not open. There's some talk he and Lamar are not getting along but I think its' just the typical thing Wr's with a Running QB often feel underused, it is what it is.

He dropped an easy 15 yarder right into his hands in Q1 on Sunday. Yeah he's not getting the ball, but there might be a reason why.

 

[CardLogic]

You want to know why the Cardinals over-reached to draft Andy Isabella? Here's the answer:

Cardinals Asst. WRs coach Spencer Whipple served on the UMass offensive coaching staff from 2014-18.
Cardinals Director of College Scoung Chris Culmer earned a master’s in Sports Management from UMass in 2000.
Cardinals College Scoung Coordinator Ryan Gold is a Westwood, MA nave and attended UMass.
Cardinals Sr. Personnel Execuve Terry McDonough is a Boston nave and graduated from the University of Massachusetts.

 

[TaylorSwift]

One thing with Kyler, like with Wilson in Seattle, he may be good enough that we can afford to spend picks and money more on the defense and let Kyler make do. Now the OL has been quite good this year so I'd like to keep that largely intact, and we do need another Wr IMO just because of the age of Fitz, but for the most part I think the high picks next year and any big FA signings we should focus on D.

We have no idea if Jones will be 100% when he comes back, my guess is Peters won't come back. So we need DL, LB and obviously CB's.

I also have concerns with Keim's ability to find WR's, other than Kirk who has he really found? Look at Pitt, yes they have Ben and they have a system but they are really good at drafting Wr's. Juju 2nd rounder 62nd pick, Diontae Johnson 3rd rounder 66th pick, Claypool 2nd round 49th pick. 3 guys who are all so far much better than Andy and only one of them was earlier than Andy, Juju was the 62nd pick just like Andy.

So yeah I'd love to add one more good WR but I'd honestly at this point be more interested in loading up the defense, see if we can get the Ravens to trade us Hollywood Brown in the offseason for not too much, or get another WR, I think the need is defense

This would be a disaster.

This methodology has never built championship teams.

And Wilson was on his rookie contract with already entrenched all time defense.

 

[TaylorSwift]

You want to know why the Cardinals over-reached to draft Andy Isabella? Here's the answer:

Cardinals Asst. WRs coach Spencer Whipple served on the UMass offensive coaching staff from 2014-18.
Cardinals Director of College Scoung Chris Culmer earned a master’s in Sports Management from UMass in 2000.
Cardinals College Scoung Coordinator Ryan Gold is a Westwood, MA nave and attended UMass.
Cardinals Sr. Personnel Execuve Terry McDonough is a Boston nave and graduated from the University of Massachusetts.

All of these guys are trash lol

 

[GimmedaBall]

I'm curious to see the reaction to Andy Isabella's play in the Pat game.

He was a little more involved. 6 targets and 4 completions. Two of those targets had no chance (out-of-bounds toss and a one-bounce to the outside) Opened the game with a Jet sweep for 19 yards (considered a pass play which was our longest gain via passing).

He and KM are just not in sync. AI caught a ball across the middle that he had to break stride and reach behind to catch. If KM got him in stride the play had a chance to big a big gainer. A deep pass down the sidelines was well out-of-bounds that had AI leaping into the air and adjusting to make the catch a few yards out of bounds. One pass to the right behind the LOS was a bounce pass and incomplete; a similar play to the left was delivered late and AI was whacked before he had a chance to move.

AI was open deep on several plays but it looked at if KM didn't trust his injured arm to get the ball to him. Just like the behind the LOS throws, the lack of the deep ball is a misuse of what AI brings. (Take a look at the connection between Tyrek Hill and Mahomes---we need to expect that development and rapport between KM and AI. )

I was surprised to see AI along the line as a blocker---I thought we would get more Max Williams & Dan Arnold for those blocking assignments.

I argued that the 'Jury was still out' before the Pats game. I think AI showed up in the Pat game---he's still not getting the deep ball and he's not getting hit in stride and in space---which nullifies he's biggest asset, his speed. Those issues are on K2 and his game plan and KM's passing.

 

[BritCard]

I'm curious to see the reaction to Andy Isabella's play in the Pat game.

He was a little more involved. 6 targets and 4 completions. Two of those targets had no chance (out-of-bounds toss and a one-bounce to the outside) Opened the game with a Jet sweep for 19 yards (considered a pass play which was our longest gain via passing).

He and KM are just not in sync. AI caught a ball across the middle that he had to break stride and reach behind to catch. If KM got him in stride the play had a chance to big a big gainer. A deep pass down the sidelines was well out-of-bounds that had AI leaping into the air and adjusting to make the catch a few yards out of bounds. One pass to the right behind the LOS was a bounce pass and incomplete; a similar play to the right was delivered late and AI was whacked before he had a chance to move.

AI was open deep on several plays but it looked at if KM didn't trust his injured arm to get the ball to him. Just like the behind the LOS throws, the lack of the deep ball is a misuse of what AI brings. (Take a look at the connection between Tyrek Hill and Mahomes---we need to expect that development and rapport between KM and AI. )

I was surprised to see AI along the line as a blocker---I thought we would get more Max Williams & Dan Arnold for those blocking assignments.

I argued that the 'Jury was still out' before the Pats game. I think AI showed up in the Pat game---he's still not getting the deep ball and he's not getting hit in stride and in space---which nullifies he's biggest asset, his speed. Those issues are on K2 and his game plan and KM's passing.

I'll watch some All 22 when it's out if I have time, but my takeaway is that he tries hard but he's missing all the mental stuff. He can run fast, his hands are ok but not great, his ball tracking isn't great but most of all he just doesn't have the route running ability. There's no nuance, subtlety timing, explosiveness off the line. He's very vanilla and thus not very difficult to cover.

His best reception was on a dig route where he got open simply by running flat inside. A fast, but very limited receiver.

But as I said I'll try watch some of it back first.

 

[Russ Smith]

I missed most of the first quarter, saw our first drive after the pick and then we took a walk so I didn't see the consecutive incompletions to Andy on that drive.

They're just never on the same page.

From what I just read, right now the Cards aren't sure Larry will play next week either, which implies to me he's still not testing negative. He has the whole week but it's entirely possible even if Fitz can go, Andy gets more work next week again, but even yesterday it looks like he only got 55% of the snaps, they went with more TE's. I think the plan was obvious, run the ball, protect Kyler, get the lead and shrink the game.

 

[GimmedaBall]

I missed most of the first quarter, saw our first drive after the pick and then we took a walk so I didn't see the consecutive incompletions to Andy on that drive.

They're just never on the same page.

From what I just read, right now the Cards aren't sure Larry will play next week either, which implies to me he's still not testing negative. He has the whole week but it's entirely possible even if Fitz can go, Andy gets more work next week again, but even yesterday it looks like he only got 55% of the snaps, they went with more TE's. I think the plan was obvious, run the ball, protect Kyler, get the lead and shrink the game.

I actually thought we'd see more of Dan Arnold and/or Max Williams filling in on the Fitz role---making blocks and the 5-to-10 yard possession pass plays that Fitz serves in the game plan.

AI is being used as the deep threat and gimmick play WR. If we can ever get him and KM in sync we might see some TD lighting with AI simply running in a straight line past the CB. We need his deep threat to free up everything else to Nuk, TE's, RBs, etc. Now if that is his entire fit in the offense---well, that's a limited return on a 2nd round pick. At the time of the draft, I think the Cards had a high grade on him and feared another team might grab him before he fell to the Cards pick in the 3rd.

AI's peak return should be around 750 yards and 8 TDs. If he spreads the D for our other guys, that might be enough to earn his 2nd round pick (I'm sure that is going to be challenged)

We need to evaluate both AI and Kirk for the return on investment in the second round. I'm surprised we don't have a 'Kirk' thread---he played with KM for a year and you would think they would have a better connection. That TD drop should have Kirk on the nail end of getting hammered.

 

[BritCard]

I missed most of the first quarter, saw our first drive after the pick and then we took a walk so I didn't see the consecutive incompletions to Andy on that drive.

They're just never on the same page.

From what I just read, right now the Cards aren't sure Larry will play next week either, which implies to me he's still not testing negative. He has the whole week but it's entirely possible even if Fitz can go, Andy gets more work next week again, but even yesterday it looks like he only got 55% of the snaps, they went with more TE's. I think the plan was obvious, run the ball, protect Kyler, get the lead and shrink the game.

More TEs that had 3 catches for 27 yards. What's the point of having them on the field? They weren't blocking for outside runs or for Kyler and with only 3 targets it's a waste of bodies.

 

[BritCard]

I actually thought we'd see more of Dan Arnold and/or Max Williams filling in on the Fitz role---making blocks and the 5-to-10 yard possession pass plays that Fitz serves in the game plan.

AI is being used as the deep threat and gimmick play WR. If we can ever get him and KM in sync we might see some TD lighting with AI simply running in a straight line past the CB. We need his deep threat to free up everything else to Nuk, TE's, RBs, etc. Now if that is his entire fit in the offense---well, that's a limited return on a 2nd round pick. At the time of the draft, I think the Cards had a high grade on him and feared another team might grab him before he fell to the Cards pick in the 3rd.

AI's peak return should be around 750 yards and 8 TDs. If he spreads the D for our other guys, that might be enough to earn his 2nd round pick (I'm sure that is going to be challenged)

We need to evaluate both AI and Kirk for the return on investment in the second round. I'm surprised we don't have a 'Kirk' thread---he played with KM for a year and you would think they would have a better connection. That TD drop should have Kirk on the nail end of getting hammered.

Me too. TE passing plays are another section that's largely missing from the playbook. I thought BA under used them but Kliff is something else.

 

[HairZach]

He was playing with juice Sunday. Lots of burst and fighting hard for the ball.

 

[GimmedaBall]

He was playing with juice Sunday. Lots of burst and fighting hard for the ball.

Playing for the home town crowd (watching on TV).