Andy Isabella

[GimmedaBall]

Andy is like that movie everyone hates, I initially hate, but come around to view as a guilty pleasure.

I'm not ready to give up. I have a strange feeling the more he plays the better he'll be. He's limited for sure. I still feel like if we use his speed more he'll make up for his limitations.

Might just be next season.

That's called . . . the jury is still out. Have a slice of my pizza.

 

[Krusher kardinals]

This is getting old....ill put it to you this way...if we draft Metcalf we would't have DHOP! We have a top reciever...end of story.

Just curious-how do you know??

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

He has 9 more catches than I thought, okay . Still averaging <1 reception per game...as a second round pick. The jury should not be out by that huge of a margin. His mental errors on the field far outweigh his paltry catch totals. Methinks if he weren't drafted so high he'd be inactive or cut. To be fair to him, EVERY receiver chosen by Keim/Kliff combo in 2019 appears to all be disaterous picks.

 

[GimmedaBall]

He has 9 more catches than I thought, okay . Still averaging <1 reception per game...as a second round pick. The jury should not be out by that huge of a margin. His mental errors on the field far outweigh his paultry catch totals. Methinks if he weren't drafted so high he'd be inactive or cut. To be fair to him, EVERY receiver chosen by Keim/Kliff combo in 2019 appears to all disaterous picks.

Take a look at my Nov. 9th post where I try to account for the issues you (and others) are posting about AI.

Now, how do you know he is making 'mental errors?' If you are making reference to his curl back over the first down marker---I addressed that play.

Do you recall the play last night to Drake? He is behind the LOS and KM gets him the ball as he makes the curl---Drake turns and easily gets by the defender and goes up the sideline for a first down. In the play to AI, the ball was late with AI having to stop-catch-re-start and try to curl back over the first down line. By that time, the defenders closed and defended against the first down. That's not a mental error on his part, that is a late ball from KM.

Jury is still out, they are not in sync. (PS Less than 3 targets per game---talk to KK and KM)

 

[CardNots]

Andy is like that movie everyone hates, I initially hate, but come around to view as a guilty pleasure.

I'm not ready to give up. I have a strange feeling the more he plays the better he'll be. He's limited for sure. I still feel like if we use his speed more he'll make up for his limitations.

Might just be next season.

Unfortunately kyler under throws Andy more times than not. Kyler still adjusting, a bit slower than hoped.

I don’t give up on a Cardinals player until he’s not...

 

[SoonerLou]

Unfortunately kyler under throws Andy more times than not. Kyler still adjusting, a bit slower than hoped.

I don’t give up on a Cardinals player until he’s not...

Not true.

Only other time he underthrew him was week 2. So thats not true.

Cause there's been enough times he hasnt tracked the ball correctly.

 

[GimmedaBall]

Mel Grey was a speed demon WR along the lines of AI. He went at 5'9" and 185—so a bit smaller than AI. Most old timers have fond memories of watching him.

Here’s his career stats:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GrayMe01.htm

Take a look at his career catches per game: 2.4
His career average yards per game: 45.8
In his first 21 games, he had 21 catches.
His yards per reception for his career: 18.9

He could blow the top off the defensive backfield and teams had to account for him on every play he was on the field. For many years, he played with big arm QB in Jim Hart getting him the deep ball.

AI has a good chance of being this team’s Mel Grey—if we can work him into the game plan and KM learns to trust him with the ball. We need the deep ball threat to draw defenses off Hopkins and Kirk. K2 needs to scheme up plays that are in the 20-yard range—and the occasional deep TD like we saw vs. the Lions.
​

Hit ‘em stride, leave ‘em in the dust:

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AI’s a work in progress. Got to give the young guys time to play together. Jury is still out. Hit ‘em stride. Catching with his hands. Making adjustments to the ball:

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[GimmedaBall]

Not true.

Only other time he underthrew him was week 2. So thats not true.

Cause there's been enough times he hasnt tracked the ball correctly.

Can't assume who is at error on some of those throws---was it KM or AI or was it both? Hard to track the ball when you are expecting it to drop from above and it is a couple of yards to either side of the direction that you are running at full speed.

 

[SoonerLou]

Can't assume who is at error on some of those throws---was it KM or AI or was it both? Hard to track the ball when you are expecting it to drop from above and it is a couple of yards to either side of the direction that you are running at full speed.

Nah the Panthers game he tripped over his own feet trying to track it.

Cowboys game the ball is hanging up in the air forever and looks like he lost it in the lights. Another deep shot and he's looking back for the ball instead of running ahead.

He'll get better at it...in time.

Again the overall point was that this was its not underthrown passes (until yesterday) More or so timing down the field between them.

 

[GimmedaBall]

Nah the Panthers game he tripped over his own feet trying to track it.

Cowboys game the ball is hanging up in the air forever and looks like he lost it in the lights. Another deep shot and he's looking back for the ball instead of running ahead.

He'll get better at it...in time.

Again the overall point was that this was its not underthrown passes (until yesterday) More or so timing down the field between them.

Once again, you don't know if the error was on AI or KM or both.

Do you owe me a pizza and beer? Be honest and I'll let you have a slice.

 

[Russ Smith]

I am not here to join in on the lets get rid of Isabella parade. Just cause he had the chance to get the TD doesn’t mean its all on him. Everyone is raving about Metcalf probably didn’t notice the play where ball hitting him in the face open. I would say Isabella not catching one with 2 guys on him was tougher.

I haven’t seen much on Isabella but from what I have seen my question is can the catch with his hands? The plays I have seen him its mostly hands with arms and body to catch the ball. I am not a pro at watching film but it seems like his body was not in the position he wanted to make the catch.

If you google Isabella NFL draft you almost can't find a scouting report that doesn't call him a body catcher. I'd never seen him play before we picked him but I remember looking him up after the draft because the first clip I saw he looked awkward, and literally every report said body catcher.

People thought was going to be Edelman with elite speed because he runs good routes, but he just doesn't have the hands.

 

[Russ Smith]

Andy is like that movie everyone hates, I initially hate, but come around to view as a guilty pleasure.

I'm not ready to give up. I have a strange feeling the more he plays the better he'll be. He's limited for sure. I still feel like if we use his speed more he'll make up for his limitations.

Might just be next season.

I would like to see more of him too the problem is by this point I think there HAS to be a reason Kyler doesn't throw the ball to him more and I think that play last night is it. And the fumble on the KOR and the having a first down and not going down and losing the first down etc.

I think Kyler threw to him last night because he was open and Kyler had to get rid of the ball, if he had a split second more he might have gone underneath to Fitz(?) who appears to be open with a chance to get 4 yards and get the first on the pic Britcard posted. But at the time Kyler is throwing, he has a man in his face and 43 in the line of sight to Fitz so he probably knew where Andy was, looked, said yep nobody's covering him and let it go.

I really feel we need more speed and that's why I would like more Andy but I think there's a reason Kliff is so happy to get Maxx back and it's because he can play the 2 and even 3 TE lineup more on run plays, and because it allows him to use Maxx or the new guy Baylis as the surprise target. Kliff seems to like to do that I remember a play last year a perfect one to Maxx for a big gain but Maxx dropped it. This year we've done it to Maxx, to Daniels(he dropped one), and even to Jordan Thomas, who's now a Patriot btw. I think he trusts those guys more to catch the ball as surprise target than he does Andy. No speed with those guys but we can run either RB or Kyler much better with them in.

I think Andy is best in the middle of field cutting across or getting into an opening and sitting there, the problem is that's the role Fitz plays. earlier in the year I was saying more Andy less Fitz but now I think it's obvious why they don't play Andy more, they don't trust him to make the play.

 

[Germz249]

If you google Isabella NFL draft you almost can't find a scouting report that doesn't call him a body catcher. I'd never seen him play before we picked him but I remember looking him up after the draft because the first clip I saw he looked awkward, and literally every report said body catcher.

People thought was going to be Edelman with elite speed because he runs good routes, but he just doesn't have the hands.

That sucks. Hopefully they could work on that with him.

 

[CardNots]

Nah the Panthers game he tripped over his own feet trying to track it.

Cowboys game the ball is hanging up in the air forever and looks like he lost it in the lights. Another deep shot and he's looking back for the ball instead of running ahead.

He'll get better at it...in time.

Again the overall point was that this was its not underthrown passes (until yesterday) More or so timing down the field between them.

hmmm, look at his OU days, under throws deep routes more than I liked. It’s not just this year or AI. I take note of the under throws when they happen not that I count these statistically but I do have this thought too much...

 

[Jetstream Green]

hmmm, look at his OU days, under throws deep routes more than I liked. It’s not just this year or AI. I take note of the under throws when they happen not that I count these statistically but I do have this thought too much...

This observation defies the sample which Kyler has given us so far, hence that fingertip catch by Kirk. The only knock I had on Kyler in college was his lack of midfield passes but he has also shown that he's capable of that when he actually takes what the defense is giving him on hot routes to qualm a blitz... that's when we give him that option which we seldom do since we seem to want to work the sidelines

 

[BritCard]

For the people who are posting anti-Isabella comments, can you answer these questions in regards to the first 10 games of the 2020 season? (I assume you have a good idea on the answers as a basis for your negative evaluation):

(1) How many targets does he have?
(2) How many receptions does he have?
(3) What is the average # of targets he has per game?
(4) How many yards after catch per reception (YAC/R)
(5) How many drops?

His best game was vs the Lions in the game we lost. How many targets did he have? How many receptions? How many (if any) TDs?

If only we were sitting over a pizza and beer (or in a pub over beer and bangers)—I’d be glad to take the money from the negative posters that they can even correctly answer one or two of the questions. Instead, those with a negative opinion are basing their opinion on one or two plays and want to extend that to his total performance. You’re not being fair to the player if you don’t have a factual basis regarding his performance.

Here’s his stats: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/I/IsabAn00.htm
(As of 11/20, does not include the Thursday night game)

As I stated on the Nov. 9 post on this same issue, the jury is still out. I did not get a single rebuttal on that post but I see the same negative opinions going up here.

Post #24: https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/f...-vs-metcalf-talk-stop-it.376414/#post-4332400

(Why not give it a go Britcard? Your post showing the pass at the goal line makes my point. How about a rebuttal?)

It's not what his stats are, it's what his stats aren't.

There are people here who think Kirk hasn't produced enough for a 2nd round pick and Kirks stats look like Randy Moss compared to Isabella.

It's not Andy's fault where he was picked, but it will always be a factor in the assessment of his talent.

My favorite recent comparison was after the Bills game when fans were saying "Look at Cole Beasley, it took him a while to get going". Well Cole Beasley was a UDFA, so you would expect it to take a while for him to get going. Beasley has 7 100 yard games in 9 years and 3 of them came this year. It took him 4 years to pass 500 yards. The expectation for a 2nd round pick are that in year 2 they should be contributing 500+ yards minimum. Hell, if you go back to pre season you will find posts saying Isabella was going to have a 1000 yards.

He's basically a bad version of Scotty Miller, and he was a 6th round pick in the same draft. He's a bad version of Hunter Renfrow a 5th round pick in the same draft. He's not as good as Olamide Zaccheaus who was UDFA in last years draft. He has less yards in the same number of games as that well known 7th round pick Olabisi Johnson.


He's a bad version of JJ Nelson.

None of it is his fault. It was just a terrible pick. I thought it was a terrible pick at the time. And even if Andy gets 500 yards next year and 800 the year after he will still have been a terrible pick in round 2.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

He will be henceforth known as Pissabella.

I like whoever coined

Invisabella.

 

[TaylorSwift]

Its a shame, I was hoping Izzy would pan out. But the lack of ball skills are just too much to over come.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

If you google Isabella NFL draft you almost can't find a scouting report that doesn't call him a body catcher. I'd never seen him play before we picked him but I remember looking him up after the draft because the first clip I saw he looked awkward, and literally every report said body catcher.

People thought was going to be Edelman with elite speed because he runs good routes, but he just doesn't have the hands.

Yep, it's all about not using his hands.

 

[GimmedaBall]

If you google Isabella NFL draft you almost can't find a scouting report that doesn't call him a body catcher. I'd never seen him play before we picked him but I remember looking him up after the draft because the first clip I saw he looked awkward, and literally every report said body catcher.

People thought was going to be Edelman with elite speed because he runs good routes, but he just doesn't have the hands.

Hello Russ,

Of course, you can find scouting reports that don't call him a 'body catcher.' (See my links below). There are lots of pre-draft sites that specifically call him a 'body catcher' but I wonder how many of those team pages and fan forums are simply trolling and plagiarizing from one another. It certainly adds to the article length but at some point, it looks more like an echo chamber than anything based on fact.

Now, there are comments that because he has short arms and a small catch radius he pulls the ball into his chest plate---but his video highlights show him making fingertip catches. Those short arms certainly make it appear that he is only catching it with his body---but that happens when your wingspan is smaller than that of Fitz of Hop (LOL). That 'body catcher' comment caught on in this fan forum and has become 'common knowledge.' Eventually, even the WR with a huge wingspan pulls the ball into his body. Why is it that a guy with short arms gets labeled as a 'body catcher' but the guy with long arms is catching it with his hands? Both pull it into the body. When you got short arms and extend them out, it doesn't take much of a move for the ball to be into the body. LOL. The relatively short arms and small wingspan are an issue---but that is offset by the sprinter's speed---if the QB can hit him in stride and take advantage of the separation. Make him stop and wait for the ball and you negate the speed advantage and the small arms and wingspan becomes an issue when contesting a catch against a bigger, stronger DB with longer arms and wingspan.

I couldn't find many PRE-DRAFT reports that thought he was going to be the next Edelman. I found the opposite with the thought that at this point in his career he was awkward and without the lower body strength to play slot. Some project him as an outside guy who can stretch the field---which is why I posted the Mel Grey highlight video. I would like to see that production and long career out of AI and if he does for the current Cards what Mel Grey did for the 'Cardiac Cards' he would be worth that high pick

So, what do you want to do with AI? Cut him, trade him, put him on the practice squad, continue to complain about his high pick, keep whining that we should have Metcalf, keep beating on the guy until his confidence goes all the way down the toilet?

Here's some of my pre-draft links on AI. I see some promise there and repeat that it is still too early to label him a bust. At this point, I see this issue as much on KM and K2 as on AI;

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/andy-isabella

“Hands – Sticky hands do well to pluck the football when it is put up above the numbers. Does not have a great deal of strength in hands in contested situations but soft hands effortlessly tuck the ball away with quickness before turning up the field. (Sees him best for a slot receiver)”

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...19-scouting-report-for-arizona-cardinals-pick

“The Marquise Goodwin comparison is too easy, but it's also true. Isabella has the same quickness to destroy teams underneath and work intermediate areas. He's also a returner. His film and Senior Bowl performance didn't bring up many concerns, either. He could add functional strength to go with his speed and quickness to help him get off the line better. Durability and level of competition may be red flags, but he showed he belongs at this level during his week at the Senior Bowl.”

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Sees him better as a vertical threat than a slot guy. Concern about his route running–not his hands.

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Pro-Football Focus: Highest Grade in the last three years (93.2)

Why Metcalf dropped in the draft:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...ams-miss-and-let-dk-metcalf-fall-in-the-draft

A 2019 evaluation from everyone’s favorite writer Mitch(LOL)

https://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2019/10/10/20907830/the-az-shank-redemption

Lions predraft eval of AI calling his a body catcher:
https://lionswire.usatoday.com/2019/02/18/andy-isabella-scouting-report-detroit-lions/

Here’s a pre-draft eval from a Pittsburg Steeler writer who calls him a ‘body catcher”
https://steelersdepot.com/2019/01/2019-nfl-draft-player-profiles-massachusetts-wr-andy-isabella/

 

[GimmedaBall]

Well boys and girls, even a windbag such as myself reaches the point when he realizes he is really, really beating the dead horse. We still have posters who are simply giving one-sentence answers and have their mind cast in concrete. Even Maxwell's Silver Hammer would not be able to breakthrough minds that won't be moved.

I asked posters to give me a read on my Nov. 9th response to this issue and didn't get a single taker. We still see the same complaints and comments that I addressed back then. I'm sounding like a broken record, a broken record, a broken record . . . so, I rest my case.

I will expect payment on the beer and pizza (or grog and mashers) sometime in the future.

 

[Russ Smith]

Hello Russ,

Of course, you can find scouting reports that don't call him a 'body catcher.' (See my links below). There are lots of pre-draft sites that specifically call him a 'body catcher' but I wonder how many of those team pages and fan forums are simply trolling and plagiarizing from one another. It certainly adds to the article length but at some point, it looks more like an echo chamber than anything based on fact.

Now, there are comments that because he has short arms and a small catch radius he pulls the ball into his chest plate---but his video highlights show him making fingertip catches. Those short arms certainly make it appear that he is only catching it with his body---but that happens when your wingspan is smaller than that of Fitz of Hop (LOL). That 'body catcher' comment caught on in this fan forum and has become 'common knowledge.' Eventually, even the WR with a huge wingspan pulls the ball into his body. Why is it that a guy with short arms gets labeled as a 'body catcher' but the guy with long arms is catching it with his hands? Both pull it into the body. When you got short arms and extend them out, it doesn't take much of a move for the ball to be into the body. LOL. The relatively short arms and small wingspan are an issue---but that is offset by the sprinter's speed---if the QB can hit him in stride and take advantage of the separation. Make him stop and wait for the ball and you negate the speed advantage and the small arms and wingspan becomes an issue when contesting a catch against a bigger, stronger DB with longer arms and wingspan.

I couldn't find many PRE-DRAFT reports that thought he was going to be the next Edelman. I found the opposite with the thought that at this point in his career he was awkward and without the lower body strength to play slot. Some project him as an outside guy who can stretch the field---which is why I posted the Mel Grey highlight video. I would like to see that production and long career out of AI and if he does for the current Cards what Mel Grey did for the 'Cardiac Cards' he would be worth that high pick

So, what do you want to do with AI? Cut him, trade him, put him on the practice squad, continue to complain about his high pick, keep whining that we should have Metcalf, keep beating on the guy until his confidence goes all the way down the toilet?

Here's some of my pre-draft links on AI. I see some promise there and repeat that it is still too early to label him a bust. At this point, I see this issue as much on KM and K2 as on AI;

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/andy-isabella

“Hands – Sticky hands do well to pluck the football when it is put up above the numbers. Does not have a great deal of strength in hands in contested situations but soft hands effortlessly tuck the ball away with quickness before turning up the field. (Sees him best for a slot receiver)”

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...19-scouting-report-for-arizona-cardinals-pick

“The Marquise Goodwin comparison is too easy, but it's also true. Isabella has the same quickness to destroy teams underneath and work intermediate areas. He's also a returner. His film and Senior Bowl performance didn't bring up many concerns, either. He could add functional strength to go with his speed and quickness to help him get off the line better. Durability and level of competition may be red flags, but he showed he belongs at this level during his week at the Senior Bowl.”

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Sees him better as a vertical threat than a slot guy. Concern about his route running–not his hands.

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Pro-Football Focus: Highest Grade in the last three years (93.2)

Why Metcalf dropped in the draft:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...ams-miss-and-let-dk-metcalf-fall-in-the-draft

A 2019 evaluation from everyone’s favorite writer Mitch(LOL)

https://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2019/10/10/20907830/the-az-shank-redemption

Lions predraft eval of AI calling his a body catcher:
https://lionswire.usatoday.com/2019/02/18/andy-isabella-scouting-report-detroit-lions/

Here’s a pre-draft eval from a Pittsburg Steeler writer who calls him a ‘body catcher”
https://steelersdepot.com/2019/01/2019-nfl-draft-player-profiles-massachusetts-wr-andy-isabella/

Totally different eras but so far Mel Gray is a bad comparison. I'm 55 in 2 weeks I became a Cards fan when Gray was a Cardinal and totally different skills sets. Gray was great at the catch and run like the one Andy had against SF last year but what he did really well was the "bomb" something that so far save one I think in rookie pre season, Andy has shown zero ability to do in the NFL. If you read scouting reports several of them said he's really good at tracking the ball in the air, we haven't seen that at ALL so far as a Cardinal.

I saw several comparisons to Edelman, that was last year no recollection where I saw them.

As for body catcher I think it's pretty obvious he does that, he even does it on the few returns he's tried in the NFL. We were told he was a return guy when we drafted him. He's had 5 punt returns all this year, he fair caught 4 of them and the other was a 1 yard return. not that Kirk has been great but we HAD to take Andy off punt return because he was fair catching balls with lots of room to run it was just obvious he didn't want to return punts. The KO's haven't been any better, 2 years 7 for 135, longest 32, this year only 2 he fumbled one of them(got it back).

Andy is a good kid he works hard, I'm not saying cut him, but he's still in the situation where we're expecting 2nd round production from him because that's where he was picked, and we're getting 6th round production. Yes it's been tough he's backing up Fitz, the greatest receiver in Cardinal history and maybe the 2nd best ever, so far we just haven't seen much indication he's going to be a starting Wr anytime soon.

The best play he made as a Cardinal is a perfect example of what I mean by "awkward", great play these are the plays I want to see more of him crossing the field. The play against 49ers last year the 88 yarder. If you watch the whole video about 57 seconds or so you get the angle where you can see him tracking the ball and then catch it by cradling to his body, slight bobble, then he locks it up cuts back and you just expected him to pull away like the speed demon he is. He does score but he's "wobbling" the whole way it looks like the ball weighs 50 pounds or something the way he's running. I guess he was trying to protect the ball but he held it so close to his body but he just doesn't look natural. I don't really care on a 88 yard housecall I don't care if it looks great or not but we've seen that with Andy for 2 years now, he is much better this year but it just doesn't look like he's got great instincts. the play a few weeks ago where he had the first down and lost it, we've seen plays in the past where Kyler throws backshoulder and Andy just keeps running and looks befuddled. He's got 24 catches in 2 years and I don't think a single one of them was a difficult grab. I honestly wish Kyler would throw to him more often, he gets open, but I think he's almost like the guy in the park when you're playing pickup basketball who's always saying "I'm open" and everyone is saying under their breath "yeah there's a reason for that they want you to shoot."

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[SoonerLou]

It's not what his stats are, it's what his stats aren't.

There are people here who think Kirk hasn't produced enough for a 2nd round pick and Kirks stats look like Randy Moss compared to Isabella.

It's not Andy's fault where he was picked, but it will always be a factor in the assessment of his talent.

My favorite recent comparison was after the Bills game when fans were saying "Look at Cole Beasley, it took him a while to get going". Well Cole Beasley was a UDFA, so you would expect it to take a while for him to get going. Beasley has 7 100 yard games in 9 years and 3 of them came this year. It took him 4 years to pass 500 yards. The expectation for a 2nd round pick are that in year 2 they should be contributing 500+ yards minimum. Hell, if you go back to pre season you will find posts saying Isabella was going to have a 1000 yards.

He's basically a bad version of Scotty Miller, and he was a 6th round pick in the same draft. He's a bad version of Hunter Renfrow a 5th round pick in the same draft. He's not as good as Olamide Zaccheaus who was UDFA in last years draft. He has less yards in the same number of games as that well known 7th round pick Olabisi Johnson.


He's a bad version of JJ Nelson.

None of it is his fault. It was just a terrible pick. I thought it was a terrible pick at the time. And even if Andy gets 500 yards next year and 800 the year after he will still have been a terrible pick in round 2.

I kinda thought the Cardinals would have brought in Jalen Guyton (Kyler's former HS teammate) in FA back in 2019.

He's become a solid player for the Chargers.

I think Keim saw Andy being Kyler's new Hollywood Brown. However, those guys have different body types.

I'm still holding out hope for Andy. Its just we just expected more from a 2nd round pick.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Totally different eras but so far Mel Gray is a bad comparison. I'm 55 in 2 weeks I became a Cards fan when Gray was a Cardinal and totally different skills sets. Gray was great at the catch and run like the one Andy had against SF last year but what he did really well was the "bomb" something that so far save one I think in rookie pre season, Andy has shown zero ability to do in the NFL. If you read scouting reports several of them said he's really good at tracking the ball in the air, we haven't seen that at ALL so far as a Cardinal.

I saw several comparisons to Edelman, that was last year no recollection where I saw them.

As for body catcher I think it's pretty obvious he does that, he even does it on the few returns he's tried in the NFL. We were told he was a return guy when we drafted him. He's had 5 punt returns all this year, he fair caught 4 of them and the other was a 1 yard return. not that Kirk has been great but we HAD to take Andy off punt return because he was fair catching balls with lots of room to run it was just obvious he didn't want to return punts. The KO's haven't been any better, 2 years 7 for 135, longest 32, this year only 2 he fumbled one of them(got it back).

Andy is a good kid he works hard, I'm not saying cut him, but he's still in the situation where we're expecting 2nd round production from him because that's where he was picked, and we're getting 6th round production. Yes it's been tough he's backing up Fitz, the greatest receiver in Cardinal history and maybe the 2nd best ever, so far we just haven't seen much indication he's going to be a starting Wr anytime soon.

The best play he made as a Cardinal is a perfect example of what I mean by "awkward", great play these are the plays I want to see more of him crossing the field. The play against 49ers last year the 88 yarder. If you watch the whole video about 57 seconds or so you get the angle where you can see him tracking the ball and then catch it by cradling to his body, slight bobble, then he locks it up cuts back and you just expected him to pull away like the speed demon he is. He does score but he's "wobbling" the whole way it looks like the ball weighs 50 pounds or something the way he's running. I guess he was trying to protect the ball but he held it so close to his body but he just doesn't look natural. I don't really care on a 88 yard housecall I don't care if it looks great or not but we've seen that with Andy for 2 years now, he is much better this year but it just doesn't look like he's got great instincts. the play a few weeks ago where he had the first down and lost it, we've seen plays in the past where Kyler throws backshoulder and Andy just keeps running and looks befuddled. He's got 24 catches in 2 years and I don't think a single one of them was a difficult grab. I honestly wish Kyler would throw to him more often, he gets open, but I think he's almost like the guy in the park when you're playing pickup basketball who's always saying "I'm open" and everyone is saying under their breath "yeah there's a reason for that they want you to shoot."

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Mel Gray was great at tracking the ball over his shoulder and made more than one Lynn Swann style catches extending his body for a catch. Pat Tilley was a bit of a body catcher to be honest but it worked for him which is unusual being so reliable when people were allowed to really pop you back then

 

[GimmedaBall]

Russ, et. al

I’ll acknowledge the last couple of posts here since people have taken the time to compose an answer.

(1) AI is on the team. All the looking back in dismay/anger/disappointment is not going to change that draft pick and who went after him. Going forward—I say the jury is still out. He has had so few targets and chances. Is it because he can’t catch or because K2 doesn’t know now use him in a way that KM can make a connection? We need K2 to come up with plays that take advantage of his speed. That is the primary reason he got drafted. We need to get KM in sync with AI’s speed—need to lead him and hit in stride to take advantage of the speed. If not, he’s a small guy with short arms who is at a standstill waiting to get hammered by Dbs. Need to get him on the field more—he is no different than other players who needs the game time reps—Simmons is a case in point. As a WR, AI is on the end of the throw, and all the mistakes prior to that ball delivery get put on the WR—which may or may not be fair.

(2) Back up statements with your source. If not, they become ‘common knowledge.’ Or you can label them as rumors.

“People thought was going to be Edelman with elite speed because he runs good routes, but he just doesn't have the hands.” From post #61

I didn’t recall that. Not sure who you mean by 'People." The only thing they have in common is that they are short, fast, white guys playing WR. In fact, a NE sportswriter made the observation that he WASN’T another Edelman (turn off your Ad blocker or the content will be blurred):

https://www.news-herald.com/sports/...cle_98889b14-23d0-11e9-98cf-5f5d6985cf2e.html

When I asked for your source, you replied:
“I saw several comparisons to Edelman, that was last year no recollection where I saw them.”

Not fair. Actually, nothing disappears from the Internet. If ‘People’ were making that observation, it would still be out there if you hit on a couple keywords in a search. I’m talking NFL analysts and sportswriters. If it were fan forum comments or conversations around the pizza and beer—those may not qualify as verifiable sources (or creditable). Hard to debate when the source of a definitive statement cannot be produced.

You (or someone else) can have the last word. (Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.

DHOPS stats for comparison

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