Antrel Rolle on display tonight.

[Russ Smith]

For Spanky:

Though it is really a moot point and I am quite happy with Fitz...I still think Taylor would have had just as big an impact on this team. Time will tell I suppose but I really don't think we could have gone wrong with either...the fact is the offensive player and personal relationship won out. But I can guarantee you teams wouldn't be running all over us like they have been assuming we were playing a 1 deep with Taylor and moving Wilson up like an extra LB.
PK1

Not to mention Taylor could have easily moved to FS when Dex's back kept him out.

But then with Quan out we'd be ridiculously think at WR.

Need about 10 first round picks.

 

[AZCB34]

BPA still comes down to personal preference. Denny thought Fitz was the best player in the draft, period...so technically he was the best player available, at least to Denny and I would imagine most people, at #3.


PK1

I am not arguing the Fitz thing but rather the way Green describes his BPA style. If I understand his style, if a WR is tops on his board in round 1 this year, he will take it because that is BPA on Greens board and he doesn;t deem position important when it comes to drafting...or at least that is the way I have read his comments prior to last draft. So, again, if I am sitting in the war-room and I can tangibly see Greens draft board, by his described style, he will take a WR if that is the top player on his board at...say...#8 next year.

 

[Russ Smith]

I am not arguing the Fitz thing but rather the way Green describes his BPA style. If I understand his style, if a WR is tops on his board in round 1 this year, he will take it because that is BPA on Greens board and he doesn;t deem position important when it comes to drafting...or at least that is the way I have read his comments prior to last draft. So, again, if I am sitting in the war-room and I can tangibly see Greens draft board, by his described style, he will take a WR if that is the top player on his board at...say...#8 next year.

The classic was Culpepper over Kearse on a team desperately in need of a pass rusher. but of course he had a fallback drafting a sure thing DE in Underwood.

 

[AZCB34]

The classic was Culpepper over Kearse on a team desperately in need of a pass rusher. but of course he had a fallback drafting a sure thing DE in Underwood.

Did he have a QB when he drafted Culpepper?

But, yes, seems he ignored a big time need (which could have been had without "reaching") to satisfy the BPA model.

 

[Poorknight1]

Huh? You can't look for BPA and still draft smart? Who is to say that BPA criteria doesn't include team need? It's not entirely based on workout numbers, nor your production in college. I would assume that a culmination of those things along with personality, intelligence, etc. Team need still fits into it somewhere.

Hypothetically we are drafting at 15. Rolle is gone along with Justin Miller. Marlin Jackson and Mike Williams are both sitting on the board...I'd take Mike Williams simply based on the fact that I think he'll make a bigger impact on the team. We need a great CB, agreed, but do we need someone who was once a great CB that's been plagued with inconsistancy after the switch to safety or a proven product as a wide receiver? We know other teams want him and now we have the ammunition to make a trade for Marlin Jackson AND an additional player or pick. Does that fit into your vision of BPA?

PK1

 

[Russ Smith]

Did he have a QB when he drafted Culpepper?

But, yes, seems he ignored a big time need (which could have been had without "reaching") to satisfy the BPA model.

Not knocking the pick, Culpepper is great, but at the time they were basically plugging in guys and making them great. 98 Cunningham was the MVP, and he drafted Daunte AFTER he signed George if I recall correctly. So he had all 3 of them that year.

Had he taken Kearse, I presume George was the QB the next year too. OBviously now he'd be worse off not having Culpepper, but put Kearse on that '99 team and they may not give up 49 points to the Rams in the playoffs, they may get some sacks.

It's always a gamble, long term Culpepper is probably the better player, short term Kearse might have been the guy that put them over the top.

By most accounts everyone expected them to take Kearse, but Green had Daunte rated higher.

 

[AZCB34]

Huh? You can't look for BPA and still draft smart? Who is to say that BPA criteria doesn't include team need? It's not entirely based on workout numbers, nor your production in college. I would assume that a culmination of those things along with personality, intelligence, etc. Team need still fits into it somewhere.

Hypothetical we are drafting at 15. Rolle is gone along with Justin Miller. Marlin Jackson and Mike Williams are both sitting on the board...I'd take Mike Williams simply based on the fact that I think he'll make a bigger impact on the team. We need a great CB, agreed, but do we need someone who was once a great CB that's been plagued with inconsistancy after the switch to safety or a proven product as a wide receiver? We know other teams want him and now we have the ammunition to make a trade for Marlin Jackson AND an additional player or pick. Does that fit into your vision of BPA?

PK1

Hold up a minute. Let's leave all the trade stuff out of here for a moment because what we are talking about is making one pick...one player and Green doesn't have 2 guys side by side. He has Williams listed top on his board when it is their turn. He will choose Williams based on his description of BPA regardless of position . So now we have Fitz, Williams, Quan...a ton of cap space tied up there and the glaring holes currently on the team still there. At some point the decision has to be made to actually fill a need and maybe you think long and hard about Williams but you bypass him because the next guy fits a glaring weakness.

But according to how I interpret Green's style he would take Williams because he is tops on the list. As of this point, nobody as said I am interpretting his style wrong so I will continue to operate on the assumption I understand his style.

Throwing in the trade stuff is all fine...IF it actually works out that way...and I hope he isn't drafting HOPING to make a trade somewhere down the road.

 

[Poorknight1]

I guess it comes down to what defines the BPA and by whom...

In 1998 everyone was shocked that the Colts to Payton instead of Mr. Leaf. To most Leaf was the "best player available" and that turned out crappy. The definition of best player available is HIGHLY subjective. The Lions claim that Roy Williams was their #1 rated player in the draft...and then fell to them at #7. Either six other teams didn't agree or other factors were a part of the decision. I am quite sure that team need played a role in the other six team's decision.

But I still think if there is one guy that is head and shoulders better than another, regardless of need, you get the better of the two.

PK1

 

[Poorknight1]

AZCB34- I would agree with your assessment. I guess I just have a tendancy to look at drafting value and making the most of that value. Whether you suit up Mike Williams or deal him you are looking for the most bang for your buck with each draft pick. At least in my opinion...

 

[kerouac9]

In 1998 everyone was shocked that the Colts to Payton instead of Mr. Leaf. To most Leaf was the "best player available" and that turned out crappy. The definition of best player available is HIGHLY subjective. The Lions claim that Roy Williams was their #1 rated player in the draft...and then fell to them at #7. Either six other teams didn't agree or other factors were a part of the decision. I am quite sure that team need played a role in the other six team's decision.

Actually, the consensus seemed to be that Andre Wadsworth was the best player in the 1998 draft. The single best athlete. The Colts and Chargers were desperate for QBs, though, so the Colts took Manning (and it was about 50-50 between Manning and Leaf, as I remember), and we fleeced San Diego so they could have Leaf.

Sean Taylor, I think, was the consensus Best Player in the draft. But because some teams opted for a player at "impact" positions (QB, WR, etc.), he fell all the way down to the Redskins, and was considered a massive steal.

Another great example is the 2002 draft. It'd be hard to argue that Roy Williams wasn't the best player to come out that year (D. Carr, J. Peppers, J. Harrington, M. Williams, Q. Jammer, R. Simms, and B. McKinnie were chosen ahead of him). At this point, maybe only Julius Peppers has had the same impact, but Williams fell all the way to eight and the Dallas Cowboys.

 

[kerouac9]

If we drafted Mike Williams, we should just speed up his development and make him a TE.

 

[Poorknight1]

K9- Good points. I concur on Williams though is doesn't seem a likely scenario at this point.

I want Rolle as bad as I wanted Taylor last year...unfortunately my love for good defense can cloud my judgement at times. =)


PK1

 

[SECTION 11]

unfortunately my love for good defense can cloud my judgement at times. =)


PK1

Nothing wrong with that.
Defense and the running game baby!

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

If we drafted Mike Williams, we should just speed up his development and make him a TE.

You sound just like Larry Coker and Bobby Bowden. Think they regretted the decision that he coudn't play WR?

 

[kerouac9]

You sound just like Larry Coker and Bobby Bowden. Think they regretted the decision that he coudn't play WR?

I liked the kid, thought he was better than Fitz, frankly. What I meant was that if the Cards did draft him based on BPA, then they should make him a TE. He's already big enough, and with his size and from what happened with the workouts, it seems like weight control may be a continuing issue for him. If you made him a TE for the Cards, you could have him, BJ, Fitz, and Boldin on the field at the same time, and partially-short circuit the weight thing.

Any other team, and I think he'd be a good-to-great WR. To get him on the field with THIS team, and to replace an ineffective and ineffectual Freddie Jones, I'd make him a TE.

 

[Russ Smith]

I liked the kid, thought he was better than Fitz, frankly. What I meant was that if the Cards did draft him based on BPA, then they should make him a TE. He's already big enough, and with his size and from what happened with the workouts, it seems like weight control may be a continuing issue for him. If you made him a TE for the Cards, you could have him, BJ, Fitz, and Boldin on the field at the same time, and partially-short circuit the weight thing.

Any other team, and I think he'd be a good-to-great WR. To get him on the field with THIS team, and to replace an ineffective and ineffectual Freddie Jones, I'd make him a TE.

Don't think he could be any worse blocking than Freddie is.

Would be scary as hell for a defensive backfield, but it'll never happen.

 

[AZCB34]

AZCB34- I would agree with your assessment. I guess I just have a tendancy to look at drafting value and making the most of that value. Whether you suit up Mike Williams or deal him you are looking for the most bang for your buck with each draft pick. At least in my opinion...

Believe me, I agree with your value points (most bang for buck) but I tend to assume Green's system may not always make the most of the value if he leaves glaring holes because his system tells him to pick yet another WR.

I am with you too...defense baby. Good defense.

 

[Russ Smith]

Believe me, I agree with your value points (most bang for buck) but I tend to assume Green's system may not always make the most of the value if he leaves glaring holes because his system tells him to pick yet another WR.

I am with you too...defense baby. Good defense.

Well luckily none of the top WR's in the next draft are related to any of Denny's good friends, at least none that I know of

The argument is if you are good at finding talent, and always pick the BPA, you will always get a good player. I don't think you can discount the trade aspect I think that's something Green seriously includes into his plan, that if I have 4 great WR's, I can always trade one of them.

 

[Southpaw]

Detroit has quietly put together what I would say is one of the most well-balanced teams in the league. They have young talent all over the place.
They'd be wise to resign this guy.

and a whole bunch of NFL experts were ready to throw Matt Millen out the door. I am totally impressed by the Lions. Young impact type picks.

Roy Williams makes me weep. Coulda, shoulda.

 

[SECTION 11]

and a whole bunch of NFL experts were ready to throw Matt Millen out the door. I am totally impressed by the Lions. Young impact type picks.

Roy Williams makes me weep. Coulda, shoulda.

You gotta love the home team with a Monday night road team coming in as well.
It's put up time for Detroit.

The kind of game the Cards would get shelled in traditionally it seems.

 

[Southpaw]

Don't think he could be any worse blocking than Freddie is.

Would be scary as hell for a defensive backfield, but it'll never happen.

If you want a big time tight end, try this guy on for size.

 

[AZCB34]

Well luckily none of the top WR's in the next draft are related to any of Denny's good friends, at least none that I know of

The argument is if you are good at finding talent, and always pick the BPA, you will always get a good player. I don't think you can discount the trade aspect I think that's something Green seriously includes into his plan, that if I have 4 great WR's, I can always trade one of them.

I am not discounting it but by the same token I think it is very, very dangerous to depend on being able to make a trade when drafting a guy. As I view it, when you pick a guy, you are basically saying this is our guy and you better be ready to hit the field with the guy. If you rely on a trade to happen and it doesn't (trades really aren't the norm in the NFL although we had some this year), you could be starting one of you 4 WR's at CB or OT because you have never been able to fill that hole.

As for Green's buddies, I am sure there is a collegiate player running around out there who is the son of one of Green's buddies or consultants who will suddenly become the top player on Greens board JUST A JOKE PEOPLE!

 

[AZCB34]

Well luckily none of the top WR's in the next draft are related to any of Denny's good friends, at least none that I know of

The argument is if you are good at finding talent, and always pick the BPA, you will always get a good player. I don't think you can discount the trade aspect I think that's something Green seriously includes into his plan, that if I have 4 great WR's, I can always trade one of them.

BTW, did Green make alot of trades when he was in MIN? More than what would be considered average (whatever the hell average is)?

 

[Russ Smith]

If you want a big time tight end, try this guy on for size.

The new Miami TE? They had a kid last year who was quite heralded but I think he got hurt, is that him?

 

[Shane]

If you want a big time tight end, try this guy on for size.

Whos that physical specimen?