Anyone Else Hear This?

[crisper57]

I was driving in today and they had the "Big Red Report". They replayed a portion of Ray Horton's interview with Doug and Wolf. In it, I swear he said they knew when the Pats were going to pass or run, depending on where Brady lined up. Shotgun = pass. Under center = run. He said they checked into the appropriate defense based on Brady all day long.

Could that be possible? Could a legendary coach and a legendary QB have such an obvious tell and not know it?

I tried to re-listen on arizonasports.com, but my work has all audio blocked. Anyone else hear this?

 

[A fan who cares]

I heard most of the interview as well, but it wasn't as simple as where Brady was taking the snap. It had to do with what position the TE was in. If Brady was under center and the TE was doing something specific (I don't remember) then the defense would do either a run check or a pass check. Same thing with shotgun.

Horton also mentioned that when Hernandez got hurt, he could tell it threw off the Pat's gameplan, but luckily they caught on to their tells.

 

[Nash2Amare]

Great interview. I'll sum it up as it goes right now since I'm listening for the first time

Horton brought up the fact that the Pats ran a "hand off to Woodhead and then Woodhead would pass it back to Brady to launch it back downfield" ..Dockett snuffed it out because they practiced it during the week. It was something they saw the Pats do against Pittsburgh a few years back. Horton basically made it sound like it was obvious.

And yes... Horton said "Whenever Hernandez was [lined up] in tight, they were running the ball." and he said the defense had the option to check once they saw it. fwiw, this applied to any play the Pats did, not just that one. They waited to see how the Pats were set up, and then would check out of it because their formations were a dead giveaway apparently.

Then Horton said if Brady was in shotgun, the defense would pass check. If he was under center, run check. This was because of the Hernandez injury. They became really predictable at that point.

 

[NuttinButTDs]

All we need is Horton to figure similar things against Philly, maybe with Kolb's help.

 

[Nash2Amare]

Here's an article regarding it as well:
From Vince Marotta:
http://arizonasports.com/40/1576243/Was-Tom-Brady-tipping-New-Englands-plays

"We knew that whenever [Aaron] Hernandez was in tight, it was going to be a run, so we had a run check. But when he got hurt, it screwed that up because they went to three wide receivers. What they did, and we figured out real quick was, whenever Tom Brady was under the center, they were going to run the ball and whenever he was in the shotgun, they were going to pass the ball," Horton said. "We told our players 'hey, make the run check if Tom Brady's under the center. If he's in the gun, go to the pass check.'

"They handled it beautifully, and so we had dual calls that basically what we were telling them is we know when they're going to run and pass, so our players put us in the best position to win the game and they did a flawless job of managing the game of getting inside New England's head."

 

[ajcardfan]

I remember going home from a Cards-Lions game when McGinnis was coach that we had won by a score of something like 48-45. I'm listening to the postgame show, and they interview one of the Lions players who had played for Tobin. This guy says they knew the perfect play to audible to on offense every time because our defense was using the exact same calls as they did with Tobin. I was shocked that something like that could happen in the NFL, I thought they were way more sophisticated than that.

So, I'm not too surprised even with it being New England. Heck, I can call run or pass on our offense about 90% of the time just by looking at how our OTs set up.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I remember going home from a Cards-Lions game when McGinnis was coach that we had won by a score of something like 48-45. I'm listening to the postgame show, and they interview one of the Lions players who had played for Tobin. This guy says they knew the perfect play to audible to on offense every time because our defense was using the exact same calls as they did with Tobin. I was shocked that something like that could happen in the NFL, I thought they were way more sophisticated than that.

So, I'm not too surprised even with it being New England. Heck, I can call run or pass on our offense about 90% of the time just by looking at how our OTs set up.

Don't know about 90%, but, given there are only 2 options, you're probably right 50% of the time.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

I remember going home from a Cards-Lions game when McGinnis was coach that we had won by a score of something like 48-45. I'm listening to the postgame show, and they interview one of the Lions players who had played for Tobin. This guy says they knew the perfect play to audible to on offense every time because our defense was using the exact same calls as they did with Tobin. I was shocked that something like that could happen in the NFL, I thought they were way more sophisticated than that.

This is exactly what came to my mind, too!

 

[MigratingOsprey]

yeah - I heard the interview and like all his interviews he's an impressive coach

a couple notables were that he was thinking of the gameplan for NE back on draft weekend

he noted the tells (although he did say he simplified it a bit for the fans listening)

Also noted that against seattle he brought pressure 80% of the time and against the pats he only did it once before the final desparation drive and he only did it that one time because he just felt like doing it to see it

The guy is good at what he does, is smart and conducts himself very well ..... he has a big bucket full of "gets it" ........ if he wants I can see him being a HC very soon - I don't think he'd have trouble preparing for and winning over the room in an interview

 

[BigRedRage]

yeah - I heard the interview and like all his interviews he's an impressive coach

a couple notables were that he was thinking of the gameplan for NE back on draft weekend

he noted the tells (although he did say he simplified it a bit for the fans listening)

Also noted that against seattle he brought pressure 80% of the time and against the pats he only did it once before the final desparation drive and he only did it that one time because he just felt like doing it to see it

The guy is good at what he does, is smart and conducts himself very well ..... he has a big bucket full of "gets it" ........ if he wants I can see him being a HC very soon - I don't think he'd have trouble preparing for and winning over the room in an interview

as long as its in person because his voice doesnt match the man

 

[crisper57]

Thanks all. After you confirmed what I thought I heard, I passed it along to PFT. And hour later, they posted this:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/19/horton-saw-a-tell-in-pats-offense/

And yes, I wanted to announce it to the world for the exact reason Florio gives Horton credit for. Pats need to fix it before they face the rest of the NFCW.



Edit: Looks like the message was received.
http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/this-just-in/21228851/arizona-dc-brady-pats-were-tipping-plays
http://www.nesn.com/2012/09/cardina...triots-were-tipping-offensive-tendencies.html
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-...4730297/looking-closer-at-brady-tipping-plays

 

[az jam]

I'm not sure how smart it is for Horton to make this public.

 

[crisper57]

I'm not sure how smart it is for Horton to make this public.

Why not? We don't play the Pats again for 4 years. Meanwhile, the rest of the NFC West plays them this year. Isn't it in Horton's interest for the Pats to fix it now?

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Why not? We don't play the Pats again for 4 years. Meanwhile, the rest of the NFC West plays them this year. Isn't it in Horton's interest for the Pats to fix it now?

Maybe it will make our future opponents more careful?

 

[kerouac9]

Why not? We don't play the Pats again for 4 years. Meanwhile, the rest of the NFC West plays them this year. Isn't it in Horton's interest for the Pats to fix it now?

Yup. The upside is so much greater than the potential downside. So much. It's likely that by the time we play New England again, Brady will be retired and Horton will be the head coach of the...

...let's say the Minnesota Vikings.

Also, New England would be playing the defending Super Bowl champions at home, and the crowd will be so rowdy they'll be in silent count the whole game.

 

[crisper57]

Wow. Sando lays into Horton for running his mouth.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest

 

[DemsMyBoys]

Wow. Sando lays into Horton for running his mouth.

Sando sees it as "self serving".

I don't see that at all. What I see is Horton stating the facts: Cards coaches were smart enough to see the mistakes the Pats were making and nail them using what they learned. Nothing wrong with saying that, IMO. (I also think Horton is 100% focused on the Cards right now. I don't think he's the guy who does things so he'll be considered for a HC position later. He's the type who just lets his actions speak for themselves. If the time comes he's considered it's... Here's my record. Judge me on that.)

 

[Lagerfilled]

Sando is just pissed cause he's a Seacocks homer.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

No he isn't

Just because someone worked in that market doesn't make them a "homer"

Sando is a nerd

 

[crisper57]

Don't think he is a homer, but I do think he is way off base. Horton is just an honest interview. He is the first to admit his mistakes on the air. He isn't a blowhard like Rex Ryan or anything.

 

[Krangodnzr]

No he isn't

Just because someone worked in that market doesn't make them a "homer"

Sando is a nerd

I think he is too. He's part of the Seahawks hype machine, which I find odd since the Seahawks have a pretty ho-hum history and have been a bad team for years now.

I fully expected the Cardinals to be better than the Hawks. You have a defense that while you can stop the run and have good coverage guys, you have virtually no pass rush.

The offense is quarterbacked by a mediocre midget, you have a pretty good running back, and offensive line that can only run block, and a group of MEEEEEEEHHHHHH receivers/tight ends.

 

[Darkside]

Wow. Sando lays into Horton for running his mouth.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest

Love Horton, but I actually agree with Sando. First of all, I don't mind us fans still talking about the Patriots (eventually we have to move on though) but it irritates me to hear a coach still talking about it. Focus on Philly and keep your mouth shut.

If a player had made those comments I don't think it would be okay, and I don't think it's okay just because it's Horton. Whis would never in a million years make such a statement, nor would many (I daresay most) coaches. It's not something a coach would do.

I don't even know if a coach like Rex Ryan would say such a thing. I find it ridiculous. Granted, I don't like coaches (or coordinators) talking a lot. I think it's smarter to keep your cards close to the vest. I've heard more comments from Horton after this win than anyone on the team, coach or player. It's like he went on the victory tour and we're only heading toward the 3rd week of the season.

Anyway, it bothered me but that's just my opinion. The game obviously meant a lot to him, probably going back to his Pittsburgh days.

(And don't get it twisted, he's a hell of a coach, it's just not my style)

 

[Krangodnzr]

By the way, Sando is right about the situation. Nearly every team passes out of shotgun. That's a very DUUUUH! comment.

 

[clif]

Who cares if he tells the world what he did. Bring it on. I have no problem with it. I'm going to beat you and I'm going to tell everybody exactly how I did it. Now it is your problem to make sure I or someone else doesn't do it again. This is the big boy league. This isn't your church league. These guys are grown men. The patriots can handle it. If an opponent is offended by his comments. Great!

 

[D-Dogg]

Why not? We don't play the Pats again for 4 years. Meanwhile, the rest of the NFC West plays them this year. Isn't it in Horton's interest for the Pats to fix it now?

Because we are going to play them in the Super Bowl, duh!