Friday Afternoon Thoughts: Game 7

[WisconsinCard]

Rome wasn't built in a day. I will give BA a couple of seasons to right the ship before passing judgement.

 

[Russ Smith]

It's way too early to jump ship on Arians, but I think the signs that this team still has severe talent deficits throughout the roster are quite clear.

On defense we still lack consistent, young, talented edge rushers. Sure we can get pressure, but it's at the cost of providing coverage support to our secondary. Our group of safeties are also ridiculously poor; Yeremiah Bell just doesn't have the pass coverage skills to play in the modern NFL.

On offense, our offensive line, runningbacks, tight ends, and quarterbacks severely lack talent.

This is just a highly flawed team, and the only way forward is to build through the draft. What troubles me is that while I generally like the players Keim selects, I'm not confident in his ability to identify value in the draft. Kevin Minter is a nice player, but was our need at ILB so great that we Minter instead of an edge player, tight end, or other more pressing need? Even our WR corps lacks the type of dynamic receiver that can get open on his own.

If you look at Seattle, they found value even later in the draft and have had nearly unprecedented success in recent years. I'm not confident we'll see this from Keim.

Exactly, he's not a bad coach, he's just not Billy Beane taking no money and getting to the playoffs every year because he's better than everyone else at recognizing talent(that he can't afford to keep very long).

I didn't expect a great offense this year but with a better QB and his assurances the line was going to be ok, I sure as heck didn't expect this bad of an offense.

This is basically last season's offense with a better QB.

I'm glad we have 3 wins but the offense didn't win those games as has been pointed out elsewhere if Bush doesn't get hurt in the Detroit game we're probably 2-5. We could be 5-2 but we've blown it in some close games, largely on offense.

I just think to quote a Scorpions song "don't make no promises your body can't keep." Arians made statements he hasn't backed up.

 

[AZ Native]

Nice write up Mitch.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I'm glad we have 3 wins but the offense didn't win those games as has been pointed out elsewhere if Bush doesn't get hurt in the Detroit game we're probably 2-5. We could be 5-2 but we've blown it in some close games, largely on offense.

That's the sum of it all there. We could have a much better record so it's frustrating, but in reality it could be worse than it is.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I like our last draft but as I mentioned I question the value:

1) Cooper. Hard to tell so far, but the preseason showing demonstrated he'll probably be a pretty good to elite starter at guard. Most of the time taking a guard at the #7 overall is not advised, but I think Cooper could be worth it long term.

2) Minter. This is the pick I have a problem with. We had Washington, Brinkley and Walker before the draft. Sure we knew that Washington was going to be suspended, but I think this team needed to get more of a playmaker at this spot. Even the best descriptions of Minter as a player is a bit suspect for what the team needed: a thumper, who while not terrible in coverage didn't excel and not much of a blitzer. This pick just reeked of need not meeting value. There was at minimum 4 other players that were probably much better values.

3) Mathieu. Best pick of our draft. A great value in the third round, but judging by the circumstances, a near no-brainer.

4) Watford. I like Watford from what I saw in the preseason, and I think this was moderate value judging by our needs on the offensive line.

4) Taylor. A RB with no magic. Not ever likely to be a bell cow back. I hate picks like this. It took me one game to walk away with that pressure, since Taylor has no single dominant trait as a player. These are the type of gutless picks that keep a team 6-10 every year. A try hard guy without any ability to be a starter. Awful.

5) Swope. A swing and a miss, but you could argue that with the current state of the league, taking a risk on a concussion prone player is much worse than taking a risk on a player with drug or legal issues. This pick in retrospect is pretty bad.

6) Ellington. Another value pick. Why couldn't all of our picks look like this? Ellington is a nice complimentary piece later in the draft.

7) Jefferson. Developmental TE. Not a terrible pick, but not a great pick either. He has the tools to be good but he needs a lot of work.

 

[jefftheshark]

I like our last draft but as I mentioned I question the value:

1) Cooper. Hard to tell so far, but the preseason showing demonstrated he'll probably be a pretty good to elite starter at guard. Most of the time taking a guard at the #7 overall is not advised, but I think Cooper could be worth it long term.

2) Minter. This is the pick I have a problem with. We had Washington, Brinkley and Walker before the draft. Sure we knew that Washington was going to be suspended, but I think this team needed to get more of a playmaker at this spot. Even the best descriptions of Minter as a player is a bit suspect for what the team needed: a thumper, who while not terrible in coverage didn't excel and not much of a blitzer. This pick just reeked of need not meeting value. There was at minimum 4 other players that were probably much better values.

3) Mathieu. Best pick of our draft. A great value in the third round, but judging by the circumstances, a near no-brainer.

4) Watford. I like Watford from what I saw in the preseason, and I think this was moderate value judging by our needs on the offensive line.

4) Taylor. A RB with no magic. Not ever likely to be a bell cow back. I hate picks like this. It took me one game to walk away with that pressure, since Taylor has no single dominant trait as a player. These are the type of gutless picks that keep a team 6-10 every year. A try hard guy without any ability to be a starter. Awful.

5) Swope. A swing and a miss, but you could argue that with the current state of the league, taking a risk on a concussion prone player is much worse than taking a risk on a player with drug or legal issues. This pick in retrospect is pretty bad.

6) Ellington. Another value pick. Why couldn't all of our picks look like this? Ellington is a nice complimentary piece later in the draft.

7) Jefferson. Developmental TE. Not a terrible pick, but not a great pick either. He has the tools to be good but he needs a lot of work.

This is an excellent post - thanks!

I think the problem is that the Cardinal FO thinks that "hope" is a plan. They hope that mediocre or over-the-hill players are going to capture some magic and suddenly take us to the promised land. Call it the Warner Effect. It is akin to saying "Look, Tom Brady was selected in the 6th round, so from now on we're only going to pick QB's late in the draft." Placing all your chips based upon luck might work in Vegas (oh, wait, I live there and KNOW this not to be the case ) but it doesn't carry a lot of weight in the NFL.

Optimism is great, in its place - it doesn't bother me that a coach makes pie in the sky statements - what else is he supposed to do? Say we suck - lol? (even though we do, btw) At this point in the season, to steal a line from the other "Jeff" - We are what we are. The culmination of some poor draft choices and disappointing FA acquisitions. Se la vie.

However there are some bright spots - just watching Honey Badger play is worth the price of admission as far as I'm concerned. There are others as well, mostly on defense though, which unfortunately makes it tough to watch half of the game. But not impossible - when Carson & company take the field it provides a great opportunity to grab a beer, wrestle with the kids, fix a plate of nachos - you know, all the good stuff in life that can occur during a typical 3 and out this season

JTS

 

[JeffGollin]

Krang - Your evaluation of Minter fails to recognize that we were still shy a quality ILB (we hadn't signed Dansby) when we used the pick on Minter.

I guess you could make the case that Walker provided the nnecessary depth, but has he done anything special this season (& for whom)?

 

[football karma]

I think Arians is a good coach. Other than some direct talk, the comparisons to Buddy Ryan aren't justified.

Buddy hired a staff of cronies and his two sons fresh from Tennessee State. He signed Larry Tharpe, a seldom used o lineman from Detroit to a very large free agent contract and made him a starter. He turned a free agent defensive end into the starting tight end. The contracts he gave out to past their prime ex-Eagles meant that guys like Garrison Hearst had to be let go.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Krang - Your evaluation of Minter fails to recognize that we were still shy a quality ILB (we hadn't signed Dansby) when we used the pick on Minter.

I guess you could make the case that Walker provided the nnecessary depth, but has he done anything special this season (& for whom)?

I fully recognize that, but I felt meh about the pick when we made it.

Don't get me wrong, Minter is a nice player, but he's not a dynamic player. This team still needs more difference makers and Minter probably wouldn't be one if he were playing.

 

[gmabel830]

I fully recognize that, but I felt meh about the pick when we made it.

Don't get me wrong, Minter is a nice player, but he's not a dynamic player. This team still needs more difference makers and Minter probably wouldn't be one if he were playing.

The problem I had with the Minter pick is why you would bring in Brinkley as one of your big FA additions and then draft a guy in rd 2 with essentially the same skillset/position? Seems like you aren't getting your money's worth there, though you don't sign a FA knowing how the draft will play out.

The two guys I really wanted in rd 2 were Cyprien and Ertz, and they were both gone. So, I didn't feel too strongly about the pick one way or another at the time.

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[cardpa]

Mitch-----I agree with much of what you talked about. Some of it, however concerns things that the Cardinals have no control of as in officiating, the talent level of certain opponents, etc. While game planning can help to some degree with talent of the opponent, not game planning properly is our fault, not the opponent's. Most of all, I am in complete agreement of the return to Whiz Ball under Bruce Arians.

I began to shudder, the farther into the season we got, as I watched, the passes decreased in length, and increased in numbers. While we have had some real success running the ball, it is being ignored more and more. The straw that broke the camel's back for me, was when BA announced that he likes calling his own plays (BECAUSE HE BECOMES BORED ON THE SIDELINE DURING GAMES). That is almost exactly the attitude that Whiz took about play calling. It was fun for him no matter that he already had a Coordinator who was quite capable of play calling.

In my opinion, no one from the front Office, or from Ownersip ever explained to Whiz, or to BA exactly what his responsibilities as a HEAD COACH were, or both of them would have been more than busy enough fixing what didn't work, to take on play calling as well. I would think that watching the game from the sidelines, notebook in hand, would be more than exciting enough, because if you are like me, I go crazy when we fail to address repeat problems, and simply lay the blame on someone different the next game.

The truly sad part of all this, is that MOST of the roster players are busting their butts to play as hard and as tough as they can. Some are not being put into the best position to succeed, some simply do not get it, and some are just not capable. BA has enough position coaches and assistants to delegate all this responsibility out. He should be more than busy, simply holding those coaches accountable for selecting positions, and coaching those selections up. He was not hired to have fun, or to relieve his boredom. He was hired to turn this roster into a team that played winning football. I believe it is time for an attitude adjustment.

What I really think this alludes to is the wrong people are involved in the process of selecting a head coach. I would suspect Michael is very involved in the process and that may very well be where the problem lies. He may like to hear certain things from the potential candidates and the one that speaks to whatever those things are that Michael likes to hear is the one that becomes the next head coach.

The more we go down the road this season the more BA looks like the second coming of Whiz. What is the common denominator. Michael Bidwill. I am not blaming him for this mess, however I am saying that his influence is a factor in the selection process and its flawed. When it comes time to pick a new coach and that will happen in the next 2-3 years we can only hope for one of two things. Either Michael has enough trust in Keim to select the next head coach or they realize their selection process is flawed and they bring in a independent consultant to help pick the next head coach.

Graves was the Gm when Whiz was picked and he was a YES man and Keim was the GM when BA was picked and he probably felt he was too new in the job to piss off your boss when he just promoted you. Michael must like a certain type of person and it may be someone who is a lot like him so we get the same mistake time after time. I truly think Michael wants the best for the organization however I also believe he needs to remove himself from the next selection process because he favors the wrong type of person that this team needs in order to bring it to its full potential.

 

[Cardiac]

What I really think this alludes to is the wrong people are involved in the process of selecting a head coach. I would suspect Michael is very involved in the process and that may very well be where the problem lies. He may like to hear certain things from the potential candidates and the one that speaks to whatever those things are that Michael likes to hear is the one that becomes the next head coach.

The more we go down the road this season the more BA looks like the second coming of Whiz. What is the common denominator. Michael Bidwill. I am not blaming him for this mess, however I am saying that his influence is a factor in the selection process and its flawed. When it comes time to pick a new coach and that will happen in the next 2-3 years we can only hope for one of two things. Either Michael has enough trust in Keim to select the next head coach or they realize their selection process is flawed and they bring in a independent consultant to help pick the next head coach.

Graves was the Gm when Whiz was picked and he was a YES man and Keim was the GM when BA was picked and he probably felt he was too new in the job to piss off your boss when he just promoted you. Michael must like a certain type of person and it may be someone who is a lot like him so we get the same mistake time after time. I truly think Michael wants the best for the organization however I also believe he needs to remove himself from the next selection process because he favors the wrong type of person that this team needs in order to bring it to its full potential.

While I think there is merit to your post I would add I hope BA turns out to be as good a hire as Whiz. You know, where we won the division two years in a row and had a SB appearance. IIRC you believe it was all Warner but that's just a cherry picking kinda of view IMO.

Whiz and BA have won SB's as OC's and have had a ton of success in the NFL. Sure they did it with special QB's but that's pretty much the story for any team getting to the SB, especially in the last 10 to 15 years.

 

[Cardiac]

I fully recognize that, but I felt meh about the pick when we made it.

Don't get me wrong, Minter is a nice player, but he's not a dynamic player. This team still needs more difference makers and Minter probably wouldn't be one if he were playing.

Fully agree with this and your previous post breaking down SK's first draft.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

10. 4-Gone Conclusion?

Ist and Goal from the 4 yard line---and not even a threat of a running play?

Drives me crazy every time, and it is not just the Cardinals that pull this ridiculousness. This is league wide.

I know the game has changed, but at least run the ball once. What is the worst that can happen ? Fumble? How is that more of a risk than an INT.

Just doesn't EVER make sense to me.

 

[Darkside]

Didn't Denver do that last night, only to have Hillman fumble on the 4 and basically lose the game? Let's see, we have Peyton Manning and Hillman in the backfield, lets have Hillman make the crucial play, they'll never see it coming. Ridic.

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