April 19, Insider

[George O'Brien]

I'll bet Shawn Marion' salary ($11.3 million) is $5 million more than any player's on that list next season. The only guy I really wonder about is Brent Barry, and he will not get a six-year deal.

I don't think there are many teams in the NBA that would currently give Shawn Marion anywhere near a maximum contract. There are several players on your list capable of initiating their own offense much, much better then Shawn Marion can. There are players on that list who are better defenders. There are several players on that list who can play multiple positions. Everything be equal I would take Shawn Marion over anyone on that list, but everything isn't equal when he's making $5 million more.

Joe Mama

On another thread I compared Marion to Pierce. Pierce is certainly better at creating his own shot and has more assists, but otherwise Marion is superior to him in most categories including shooting percentage, rebounding, steals, and blocked shots. Pierce is paid $1 million a year more than Marion, but only gets 4 points a game more.

As a side note, I think Marion's defense is not where I would like it to be, but too much of that is scheme. The Suns do trapping all the time rather than focus on gettin guys to stay close to their man and move their feet. Maybe Marion is just not good enough, but I am not sure it's all his fault.

In any case, I disagree with the notion that the primary basis for big contracts is scoring. To the degree the NBA reflects that is the same degree that over play has deteriorated into self absorbed individual players rather than teams. "Here, I want you to do the dirty work and grab the rebounds, but I'm going to give the big bucks to the gunner who ignores the rest of the team in the quest for his own scoring stats".

Don't get me wrong. I think Marion needs to work on both his offensive and defensive game. There is no reason why he can't score 20 to 22 ppg by going stronger to the basket, varying his drive path (he goes left too much as it predictable), and getting better at the mid range game; but that should not take away from his contributions.

 

[Chaplin]

In any case, I disagree with the notion that the primary basis for big contracts is scoring. To the degree the NBA reflects that is the same degree that over play has deteriorated into self absorbed individual players rather than teams. "Here, I want you to do the dirty work and grab the rebounds, but I'm going to give the big bucks to the gunner who ignores the rest of the team in the quest for his own scoring stats".

Well, Ben Wallace and Dikembe Mutombo were never in danger of having the highest dollar contracts in the league, so I would say that max players pretty much get their max by being offensive.

 

[scotsman13]

no other player on that list even comes close to marion in steals, rebounds, and blocks and brings in 19 to 20 points a game. is marion over paid? maybe but not anywhere close to 5 million a year. if he is over paid it is maybe by 2 or 3 million per year and that is max.

let me ask you this simple question if marion was on the 93 suns and not marjere would they have won the championship that year? i would say yes easly. they would have gotten 3 more boards a game. they would have had a better defender for jordan or pippen. they would have gotten a block a game out of him over what they would have gotten from dan most importantly they would have gotten their championship at that time.

 

[slinslin]

Who says Marion could average the same numbers on that team?

If Marion played all the time. What about 1 point per minute Cedric Ceballos and Richard Dumas?

And with Barkley on that team he wouldn't rebound that much or Barkley's rebounding numbers would have decreased.

 

[Chaplin]

let me ask you this simple question if marion was on the 93 suns and not marjere would they have won the championship that year? i would say yes easly. they would have gotten 3 more boards a game. they would have had a better defender for jordan or pippen. they would have gotten a block a game out of him over what they would have gotten from dan most importantly they would have gotten their championship at that time.

That is very weak! How can you even begin to compare not only 2 different players in Dan and Shawn, but 2 different teams in really 2 different eras in the NBA? Players like Shawn Marion didn't exist back in 1993.

 

[cly2tw]

George,

the problem of too much trapping in Suns' defense maybe the direct result of Marion's inadequate man-to-man defense skill. They need to do the trapping to hide this deficiency of one of their most important players as much as possible. As I said, watching how he moves and you know he can't be a good man-defender ever.

 

[Joe Mama]

George,

the problem of too much trapping in Suns' defense maybe the direct result of Marion's inadequate man-to-man defense skill. They need to do the trapping to hide this deficiency of one of their most important players as much as possible. As I said, watching how he moves and you know he can't be a good man-defender ever.

I think Shawn Marion's defense is somewhat overrated, but this may be stretching it. I think Shawn Marion is an average one-on-one defender. I certainly wouldn't call him a poor defender.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

I think Shawn Marion's defense is somewhat overrated, but this may be stretching it. I think Shawn Marion is an average one-on-one defender. I certainly wouldn't call him a poor defender.

Joe Mama

It is always hard to figure out exactly what causes defensive breakdowns. I have a few ideas on this.

1. No Straight On Shot Blocker: Certainly the fact that the Suns lack a real straight on shot blocker means that if someone gets by a perimeter defender, there is no one to stop them. This means that Shawn and JJ playoff their man too much, although I do think Shawn is worse.

2. Too Much Gambling: The Suns tend to emphasize creating turnovers at the expense of good positioning. Shawn is very good at creating steals, but if he gambles and misses, it gives the opponent an open shot.

3. Weak Low Post Defense Forces Double Teams: Voskuhl is great at double teaming people, but cannot handle most centers without help. This means that a team which can pass the ball can simply move it quickly to the weak side. Often Marion is forced to defend two guys and about all he can do is run at them and hope it distracts them. McDyess is a better low post defender than Voskuhl, so it should not be surprising that Marion's defense looked better after he began starting.

4. Marion Jumps To Much: Shawn is a great leaper and tries to block shots on the outside. Unfortunately, it makes him vulnerable to being faked out. He needs to be taught to play tighter but no try to block shots.

5. Need to Fight Through Screens: The Suns general switch against picks and screens rather than fight through them. Attacking picks is like driving the basket, the goal is to force the guy to move and turn the pick into a foul. The Suns as a team need better communication to let them know there is pick, as well as other stuff like warning about backside cuts and the like.

This is only the tip of the iceburg. I think Shawn can improve as a defender because he tries hard and is athletic enough. I fault the Suns coaching that they have not stressed defensive fundimentals enough.

 

[Joe Mama]

Size wise Shawn Marion should be a shooting guard. Too often he gets posted up because he is a bit undersized anymore to be a small forward.

George, would you please send me a private message with your mailing address, so I can send you this videotape that Bball sent to me. It has an oral championship game with Milos, a high school matchup between Dwight Howard and Randolph Morris, USA versus Brazil in Pan-American games, and some University of Utah college games with Bogut. Thanks.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaplin]

What's an oral championship game? A trash-talking competition?

 

[George O'Brien]

Size wise Shawn Marion should be a shooting guard. Too often he gets posted up because he is a bit undersized anymore to be a small forward.

Joe Mama

I don't think that Shawn's main problems are with being posted up - they are playing too far off guys on the perimeter. Ron Artest is no taller than Shawn but he is defensive player of the year - because he is in his man's face all the time.

BTW, my address is on my web site, www.azirishmusic.com

 

[cly2tw]

I don't think that Shawn's main problems are with being posted up - they are playing too far off guys on the perimeter. Ron Artest is no taller than Shawn but he is defensive player of the year - because he is in his man's face all the time.

BTW, my address is on my web site, www.azirishmusic.com

Exactly, and Rodman was about the same size Marion is only one inch taller. Marion's problem is that he never learned to move around with his gravity center kept down all the time, like good defenders from Pippen, MJ, to Kobe, Artest do. And for the very same reason, he is easily backed down in the post.

 

[elindholm]

What's an oral championship game? A trash-talking competition?

Whew! That's better than what I was thinking of.

 

[George O'Brien]

Exactly, and Rodman was about the same size Marion is only one inch taller. Marion's problem is that he never learned to move around with his gravity center kept down all the time, like good defenders from Pippen, MJ, to Kobe, Artest do. And for the very same reason, he is easily backed down in the post.

That why I say the Suns really need a defense guru because technique really does matter on defense.

 

[Joe Mama]

Ron Artest might only be 1 inch taller than Shawn Marion, but he is a whole lot stronger. At his ideal playing weight Shawn Marion might be 225 pounds. Ron Artest is at least 240 pounds. Defensively he is Dennis Rodman without the rebounding. His offense is a hell of a lot better though.

That said, I definitely agree that most of Shawn Marion's problems defensively have to do with technique. A little had nod from the guy he's guarding will send him through the ceiling. He's far too undisciplined and aggressive for a perimeter player without a great shot blocker backing him up.

Joe Mama

 

[ASUCHRIS]

What's an oral championship game? A trash-talking competition?

Whew! That's better than what I was thinking of.

lol, I was waiting for somebody to jump in on that one, should sell that idea to the porn industry, could be intriguing...