Where will Jimmy Butler end up? 2025 edition

[Ronin]

Evan Sidery

@esidery
·
30m

The Grizzlies have kept an offer on the table to the Heat for Jimmy Butler, even with him not wanting to go there.If the Suns are unable to find a third team to take on Bradley Beal’s contract, Memphis is one of the top teams waiting to potentially pounce.

 

[Ronin]

Evan Sidery

@esidery
·
3m

The Suns and Warriors are currently viewed as the most likely landing spots for Jimmy Butler, per @ShamsCharania on @PatMcAfeeShow.The Heat have officially decided not to keep Butler past the trade deadline.

 

[BirdGangThing]

are we gonna get butler for nothing?

 

[Superbone]

are we gonna get butler for nothing?

Yeah, right.

 

[AzStevenCal]

are we gonna get butler for nothing?

That would make him good for nothing.

 

[GatorAZ]

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[BirdGangThing]

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this barry guy is legit too

 

[BirdGangThing]

unless someone takes beal - we don't get butler

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And Joe Johnson left because he didn't want to be the 3rd or 4th best player on the Suns and he wanted to go back to the South. Sarver was willing to pay him what he asked, Joe asked him not to match. Yes, we could and should have met his agent's demands before his last season with us but I worry about a player like that.

. . . a year too late. Had he done it the first time around with jj he would’ve remained a sun. He was penny wise and pound foolish.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah, but they had Stoudemire coming into his third season.

It doesn’t change the fact that they were a bad team. The contention was high profile free agents don’t join bad teams. Well Nash did. That’s indisputable.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Good point, but the Suns that time already had a great young core in Stoudemire-Marion-Joe Johnson.

They had a young core. But 29 wins doesn’t indicate “great.” It indicates potential. Many young teams never mature into greatness.

 

[elindholm]

It doesn’t change the fact that they were a bad team. The contention was high profile free agents don’t join bad teams. Well Nash did. That’s indisputable.

Sure, okay, so modify it to "high-profile free agent don't join bad teams with very low potential," which is what the Suns will be.

Also, Nash wasn't exactly a high-profile free agent in the summer of 04. He'd made two All-Star teams, but he'd averaged better than 8 apg only once and was the third wheel to Nowitzki and Finley. He ended up turning the Suns franchise around, but not too many people saw that coming, and it was possible only because of the untapped strength of his teammates.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Sure, okay, so modify it to "high-profile free agent don't join bad teams with very low potential," which is what the Suns will be.

Also, Nash wasn't exactly a high-profile free agent in the summer of 04. He'd made two All-Star teams, but he'd averaged better than 8 apg only once and was the third wheel to Nowitzki and Finley. He ended up turning the Suns franchise around, but not too many people saw that coming, and it was possible only because of the untapped strength of his teammates.

I don’t think anyone saw coming what happened, but I’d argue he was the second highest profile FA that summer behind only Kobe.

You can make whatever qualifiers you want, but the fact remains, high profile free agents do sign with lesser teams.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don’t think anyone saw coming what happened, but I’d argue he was the second highest profile FA that summer behind only Kobe.

You can make whatever qualifiers you want, but the fact remains, high profile free agents do sign with lesser teams.

Just started thinking of others. Joe Johnson immediately came to mind when he signed with the atrocious 16 win Atlanta Hawks in 2005 to what was a MAX deal at the time.

Reality is what Ishbia will likely need to happen is to have the books cleared so he could try and do what the Clippers did with Kawhi/PG, the Nets did with KD/Kyrie or what the Magic did with Grant Hill/T-Mac where you get two superstars who want to play together and make your team in FA that way.

Now, im sure some will argue back that none of those worked but they didn’t work because of major injuries to at least one, if not both of the players. When healthy, each one of those teams was pretty good/contenders.

Unless our scouting department just hits a grand slam home run with one of mid to late 1st rounders, the team Free Agent team is probably our only hope of being competitive once they wipe KD/Book off the books in a couple years.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Just started thinking of others. Joe Johnson immediately came to mind when he signed with the atrocious 16 win Atlanta Hawks in 2005 to what was a MAX deal at the time.

Reality is what Ishbia will likely need to happen is to have the books cleared so he could try and do what the Clippers did with Kawhi/PG, the Nets did with KD/Kyrie or what the Magic did with Grant Hill/T-Mac where you get two superstars who want to play together and make your team in FA that way.

Now, im sure some will argue back that none of those worked but they didn’t work because of major injuries to at least one, if not both of the players. When healthy, each one of those teams was pretty good/contenders.

Unless our scouting department just hits a grand slam home run with one of mid to late 1st rounders, the team Free Agent team is probably our only hope of being competitive once they wipe KD/Book off the books in a couple years.

Exactly. And no one can argue the nets, clippers or Magic are premier teams. Yeah it’s NY and LA, but the clips and nets get zero attention with the lakers and Knicks nearby and Orlando is NOT Miami.

 

[Phrazbit]

It doesn’t change the fact that they were a bad team. The contention was high profile free agents don’t join bad teams. Well Nash did. That’s indisputable.

The Mavs declined to pay Nash the type of contract we did, Cuban has talked a lot about it, they didn't trust his health. If they had ponied up he would have stayed.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The Mavs declined to pay Nash the type of contract we did, Cuban has talked a lot about it, they didn't trust his health. If they had ponied up he would have stayed.

Okay. And how does that change the fact that the second most coveted free agent came to a team with 29 wins? It doesn’t. Sure there may be factors that played into it, but there are always multiple factors. And we are talking years in the future. The simple fact is, saying good free agents don’t go to bad teams is just flat out wrong. For whatever reasons happened over and over. So the statement was wrong. Just plain inaccurate.

 

[Covert Rain]

Okay. And how does that change the fact that the second most coveted free agent came to a team with 29 wins? It doesn’t. Sure there may be factors that played into it, but there are always multiple factors. And we are talking years in the future. The simple fact is, saying good free agents don’t go to bad teams is just flat out wrong. For whatever reasons happened over and over. So the statement was wrong. Just plain inaccurate.

The one thing that is unequivocally true about the NBA? Guys go to teams for a lot more reasons than W/L.

 

[Mainstreet]

Okay. And how does that change the fact that the second most coveted free agent came to a team with 29 wins? It doesn’t. Sure there may be factors that played into it, but there are always multiple factors. And we are talking years in the future. The simple fact is, saying good free agents don’t go to bad teams is just flat out wrong. For whatever reasons happened over and over. So the statement was wrong. Just plain inaccurate.

Mike D'Antoni needed Steve Nash to orchestrate his SSOL offense.

I'm sure this was attractive to him, along with the talent already here, not to mention Mark Cuban wouldn't match the Suns offer.

 

[GatorAZ]

. . . a year too late. Had he done it the first time around with jj he would’ve remained a sun. He was penny wise and pound foolish.

.
That summer (pre-Nash) JJ wasn’t JJ yet. Of course no team/player should ever get within 800k of a deal without reaching a deal. Joe should’ve been a Sun throughout his prime instead of being an all star for the irrelevant Hawks. Had we still signed Raja after trading Q-Rich we’d be unstoppable.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I worry that we will do exactly what some of you think we can do in the future. That is, instead of tearing it all down and building a competitive team that can grow into a contender we will continue to acquire flawed stars in an attempt to stay relevant and to avoid the gutter. IMO, if we ever want to win a championship, we have to level the playing field when it comes to draft picks.

You can't just add a star or two to a piss poor team and expect it to win it all. We blame a lot on Durant, Booker and Beal and they deserve some criticism but not having solid players up and down the roster has been a killer for us. Getting Richards is a step in the right direction but we need about 3 more rotation players at least as good as Nick is. If our stars were all Devin's age, we could possibly get there but by the time we could fix the rotation our stars will have mostly aged out. And I don't think we can fix our rotation for the future if we keep investing in this team.

 

[Phrazbit]

I worry that we will do exactly what some of you think we can do in the future. That is, instead of tearing it all down and building a competitive team that can grow into a contender we will continue to acquire flawed stars in an attempt to stay relevant and to avoid the gutter. IMO, if we ever want to win a championship, we have to level the playing field when it comes to draft picks.

You can't just add a star or two to a piss poor team and expect it to win it all. We blame a lot on Durant, Booker and Beal and they deserve some criticism but not having solid players up and down the roster has been a killer for us. Getting Richards is a step in the right direction but we need about 3 more rotation players at least as good as Nick is. If our stars were all Devin's age, we could possibly get there but by the time we could fix the rotation our stars will have mostly aged out. And I don't think we can fix our rotation for the future if we keep investing in this team.

Especially if the star is available because other teams don't really have an interest in paying them the money we will.

Portland flailed for years, tossing around one questionable contract after another trying to make it work with Lilliard and the ended up the cellar anyway.

The Knicks threw around big contracts and sent away picks like it was all the rage in the 2000s, they build a horror show of a trash team.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Especially if the star is available because other teams don't really have an interest in paying them the money we will.

Portland flailed for years, tossing around one questionable contract after another trying to make it work with Lilliard and the ended up the cellar anyway.

The Knicks threw around big contracts and sent away picks like it was all the rage in the 2000s, they build a horror show of a trash team.

Yeah and who knows how the new CBA will impact star movement as teams deal with the apron issues. I think we have one huge asset, a very wealthy owner willing to spend big. But it has to be done right, not out of desperation. If people close to the team (the ones who really know what's going on and why players are struggling) believe that this team is only a player away then fine, go for it. But the team I see from my couch doesn't look all that close to the title hopefuls out there.

 

[Phrazbit]

Yeah and who knows how the new CBA will impact star movement as teams deal with the apron issues. I think we have one huge asset, a very wealthy owner willing to spend big. But it has to be done right, not out of desperation. If people close to the team (the ones who really know what's going on and why players are struggling) believe that this team is only a player then fine, go for it. But the team I see from my couch doesn't look all that close to the title hopefuls out there.

I think we're playing just about to the level of our talent. We're a long way away from real contention.

Beal is playing well below what we'd hoped but it's not really surprising given what we saw of him last year and the accumulation of years of injuries. The rest of the team is basically doing what we should have expected.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Especially if the star is available because other teams don't really have an interest in paying them the money we will.

Portland flailed for years, tossing around one questionable contract after another trying to make it work with Lilliard and the ended up the cellar anyway.

The Knicks threw around big contracts and sent away picks like it was all the rage in the 2000s, they build a horror show of a trash team.

But then recently the Knicks showed how you do it in the opposite direction signing a relatively young Brunson what their cap space and building around him. Suffice it to say, there are multiple ways to build a contender.