Are Cardinals clever or simply cheap?

BullheadCardFan

Go for it
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Posts
64,286
Reaction score
30,549
Location
Bullhead City, AZ
Are Cardinals clever or simply cheap?

Contract approach may guard against flops

Kent Somers
The Arizona Republic
Nov. 15, 2006 12:00 AM

The recent signings of several Cardinals players required a heavy initial investment from team ownership, but the structure of the deals gives the team some flexibility under the salary cap should those players not produce.

Running back Edgerrin James will be paid nearly half of his $30 million contract in the first year of a four-year deal. Defensive tackle Darnell Dockett signed a five-year extension last month that includes $7 million of guarantees. Half of that was in the form of a salary increase this year, and the other half is due in the spring.

Linebacker Gerald Hayes, who agreed to a five-year extension last week, has a similar deal. He'll receive about $7.5 million in guarantees, half of which came in a salary increase this year with the other half due in the spring.

A hefty portion of all three deals count against this year's salary cap, instead of being prorated over the life of the contract. That's because much of the guaranteed money came in the form of immediate salary increases, or in James' case a roster bonus.

Cynics might say the deals were structured that way because team officials, most notably Vice President Michael Bidwill and his father, Bill, were sensitive to being called cheapskates. Before they signed James last spring, the Cardinals were about $28 million under the $102 million salary cap. To sit on that cap space would not have played well for a team moving into a new taxpayer-approved stadium.

Even with James' deal, the club entered this season more than $10 million under the salary cap. And with the way this season started fans were justified in asking why the team didn't spend it on another offensive lineman or defensive back.

So, the argument could be made that the team front-loaded deals to consume cap space and appease their fans. There could be some truth there, too. The team has extended contracts before after taking heat for having a considerable amount of cap space.

The Cardinals say they had other motives. By front-loading the deals and taking larger salary-cap charges this year, the club improved its cap situation in years to come. It took a hefty initial cash outlay from the Bidwills, but the Cardinals also protected themselves should those players not pan out. Here's how:

Let's say a new coach is hired this February, which isn't a stretch given Dennis Green's 12-29 record in 2 1/2 seasons. And let's say the new coach doesn't think Hayes is a good fit, which is a stretch, and wants to cut him in 2007 or 2008.

Because the team front-loaded the contract, the salary-cap impact would be considerably less than if the club had structured the deal in a more conventional fashion.

That means a new coach wouldn't be saddled with several players who are untouchable because of their contracts.

It's a philosophy that's been implemented successfully elsewhere, such as Philadelphia. But the Eagles have a track record of winning and, unlike the Cardinals, fans give them the benefit of the doubt that they are spending wisely and not just being cheap.
 

Goldfield

Formally known as BEERZ
Joined
Sep 13, 2002
Posts
10,508
Reaction score
2,344
Location
ASFN
It is true you want to use what remaining cap you have durring the season to extend your young players you want to keep locked up. But on the other hand, were talking about a team that NEVER win's and could of used that extra 10 pluss mill to bring in better players to hlp the team NOW.

IMO It makes no sence at all to worry about cap flexability for the future when we never ever have a team that is worth a crap now. Spend the money now, over spend and worry about the cap when we have had afew years of winning to enjoy.
 

ALDad1977

Newbie
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Posts
9
Reaction score
0
Are Cardinals clever or simply cheap?

Contract approach may guard against flops

Kent Somers
The Arizona Republic
Nov. 15, 2006 12:00 AM

The recent signings of several Cardinals players required a heavy initial investment from team ownership, but the structure of the deals gives the team some flexibility under the salary cap should those players not produce.

Running back Edgerrin James will be paid nearly half of his $30 million contract in the first year of a four-year deal. Defensive tackle Darnell Dockett signed a five-year extension last month that includes $7 million of guarantees. Half of that was in the form of a salary increase this year, and the other half is due in the spring.

Linebacker Gerald Hayes, who agreed to a five-year extension last week, has a similar deal. He'll receive about $7.5 million in guarantees, half of which came in a salary increase this year with the other half due in the spring.

A hefty portion of all three deals count against this year's salary cap, instead of being prorated over the life of the contract. That's because much of the guaranteed money came in the form of immediate salary increases, or in James' case a roster bonus.

Cynics might say the deals were structured that way because team officials, most notably Vice President Michael Bidwill and his father, Bill, were sensitive to being called cheapskates. Before they signed James last spring, the Cardinals were about $28 million under the $102 million salary cap. To sit on that cap space would not have played well for a team moving into a new taxpayer-approved stadium.

Even with James' deal, the club entered this season more than $10 million under the salary cap. And with the way this season started fans were justified in asking why the team didn't spend it on another offensive lineman or defensive back.

So, the argument could be made that the team front-loaded deals to consume cap space and appease their fans. There could be some truth there, too. The team has extended contracts before after taking heat for having a considerable amount of cap space.

The Cardinals say they had other motives. By front-loading the deals and taking larger salary-cap charges this year, the club improved its cap situation in years to come. It took a hefty initial cash outlay from the Bidwills, but the Cardinals also protected themselves should those players not pan out. Here's how:

Let's say a new coach is hired this February, which isn't a stretch given Dennis Green's 12-29 record in 2 1/2 seasons. And let's say the new coach doesn't think Hayes is a good fit, which is a stretch, and wants to cut him in 2007 or 2008.

Because the team front-loaded the contract, the salary-cap impact would be considerably less than if the club had structured the deal in a more conventional fashion.

That means a new coach wouldn't be saddled with several players who are untouchable because of their contracts.

It's a philosophy that's been implemented successfully elsewhere, such as Philadelphia. But the Eagles have a track record of winning and, unlike the Cardinals, fans give them the benefit of the doubt that they are spending wisely and not just being cheap.

Hey! Whats going on here!!!! :hulk:
 

Duckjake

LEGACY MEMBER
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Jun 10, 2002
Posts
32,190
Reaction score
317
Location
Texas
Around here:

If your winning - this is genius
If your not - it's a ponzi scheme lining the owner's pocket

They were winning? Oh yeah, I remember 1998, great year for merlot.
 

AZCB34

ASFN Icon
Joined
Sep 23, 2002
Posts
14,871
Reaction score
7,117
Location
Mesa, AZ
Thbe problem is, besides re-signing guys who are playing on a losing team, is that the cap rises each year and in their effort to improve their cap situation for future years, they are ignoring the present and the chance to win now.

People keeps trotting out the fact that the Cards only have 600,000 under the cap now but that should appease nobody since the Cards are looking square in the face of 3-4 wins again. At some point, they have to take some risks within the cap for this year, not future years.

I don't think the Bidwills are cheap, but this is a clear example they simply have no real idea how to work this thing with the cap. Too worried about next year and the year beyond yet in the present, they are alienating fans and pretty soon, they will have a great cap situation and 25,000 fans in their stadium.
 

jmr667

Random Poster
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Posts
481
Reaction score
0
Location
Chandler, AZ
Are Cardinals clever or simply cheap?

Let's say a new coach is hired this February, which isn't a stretch given Dennis Green's 12-29 record in 2 1/2 seasons. And let's say the new coach doesn't think Hayes is a good fit, which is a stretch, and wants to cut him in 2007 or 2008.

Because the team front-loaded the contract, the salary-cap impact would be considerably less than if the club had structured the deal in a more conventional fashion.

That means a new coach wouldn't be saddled with several players who are untouchable because of their contracts.

.

This is the most likely scenario. The cap structure is set up for not only if the players don't pan out but also if the coach does not. Whoever is coach next year is going to have a lot of flexibility on what to do with players. At 1-8 the players are now just playing to keep their jobs next year.
 

40yearfan

DEFENSE!!!!
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2003
Posts
35,013
Reaction score
456
Location
Phoenix, AZ.
How many people thought the Cards would be at 1 and 8 at this point in this season before the season started. Certainly no one on here and I'm sure the owners didn't either. This plan was predicated on having a winning team and was implemented probably two years ago. As Derm said, if we were winning, everyone would have said the owners are geniuses, but since we aren't, we now have the advantage of hind sight to club them over the head with.

If you will note, Sommers has stated that actual cash outlay is greater when doing it this way. If the owners are so cheap, why wouldn't they have backloaded these contracts, said the hell with the cap situation and kept the money in their pockets?

This is an honest effort by the Cards organization to build a winning team and keep that team rolling instead of having the ups and downs many NFL teams experience when trying for a championship. It's a great business decision, but it hasn't worked out.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
88,267
Reaction score
39,911
How many people thought the Cards would be at 1 and 8 at this point in this season before the season started. Certainly no one on here and I'm sure the owners didn't either. This plan was predicated on having a winning team and was implemented probably two years ago. As Derm said, if we were winning, everyone would have said the owners are geniuses, but since we aren't, we now have the advantage of hind sight to club them over the head with.

If you will note, Sommers has stated that actual cash outlay is greater when doing it this way. If the owners are so cheap, why wouldn't they have backloaded these contracts, said the hell with the cap situation and kept the money in their pockets?

This is an honest effort by the Cards organization to build a winning team and keep that team rolling instead of having the ups and downs many NFL teams experience when trying for a championship. It's a great business decision, but it hasn't worked out.

The Bidwills are flush with cash right now from the stadium deal, that's why they did deals that put up lots of money this year, they had the cash.

The strategy Philly uses helps maintain a GOOD team, the strategy we're using is taking players on a bad team, extending them, and our record is getting WORSE year to year.

Given the cap is rising in chunks every year right now due to the tv deals, it would seem if you're ever going to take risks now would be the time.
 

40yearfan

DEFENSE!!!!
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2003
Posts
35,013
Reaction score
456
Location
Phoenix, AZ.
The Bidwills are flush with cash right now from the stadium deal, that's why they did deals that put up lots of money this year, they had the cash.

The strategy Philly uses helps maintain a GOOD team, the strategy we're using is taking players on a bad team, extending them, and our record is getting WORSE year to year.

Given the cap is rising in chunks every year right now due to the tv deals, it would seem if you're ever going to take risks now would be the time.

The problem is what risks can you take right now? We are where we are and there isn't a whole lot you can do about it until the start of the next free agent period as far as players are concerned. IMO, we should have fired Green on Monday of this week. It's probably futile to do so, but something needs to be done even if it means bringing in a Marine drill sargent to run this club until next year.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
88,267
Reaction score
39,911
The problem is what risks can you take right now? We are where we are and there isn't a whole lot you can do about it until the start of the next free agent period as far as players are concerned. IMO, we should have fired Green on Monday of this week. It's probably futile to do so, but something needs to be done even if it means bringing in a Marine drill sargent to run this club until next year.

I meant this past offseason but yes I do agree right now there's nothing that can be done.

I'm just not going to praise the team for a strategy that has the wins going from 6 to 5 to who knows how low. We can brag all we want about our good cap structure but until we're a winning football team, it doesn't really matter does it?

Maybe it's because every quarter I listen to our CEO and CFO tell analysts on the quarterly earnings call what a great cash position we have and while yes our revenues are at a record low and will get lower next quarter, we still have lots of money in the bank and we're reducing our burn rate substantially. Which is a nice way of saying we suck, but we have plenty of cash to pay out in executive bonuses.
 

jefftheshark

Drive By Poster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2004
Posts
5,067
Reaction score
520
Location
Viva Las Vegas!
The problem is what risks can you take right now? We are where we are and there isn't a whole lot you can do about it until the start of the next free agent period as far as players are concerned. IMO, we should have fired Green on Monday of this week. It's probably futile to do so, but something needs to be done even if it means bringing in a Marine drill sargent to run this club until next year.

Here is what the owners could have done:

Michael Bidwill could have gone into the Monday presser and announced that he had relieved Graves of his responsibilities and had personally taken over his position.

His first act as GM would be to send Green packing and replace him with Kurt Warner and have Kurt act as OC calling the plays. Move Kruzack (sp?) back to QB coach/assistant OC. He should tell Pendy that if the D gives up more than 21 points in any game the rest of the season, that he is gone and will be replaced by Frank Bush, and that the whole staff will be fired and replaced by temps from Labor Ready.

The Shark
 

Sandan

ASFN Icon
Supporting Member
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
24,773
Reaction score
2,239
Location
Plymouth, UK
It is true you want to use what remaining cap you have durring the season to extend your young players you want to keep locked up. But on the other hand, were talking about a team that NEVER win's and could of used that extra 10 pluss mill to bring in better players to hlp the team NOW.

IMO It makes no sence at all to worry about cap flexability for the future when we never ever have a team that is worth a crap now. Spend the money now, over spend and worry about the cap when we have had afew years of winning to enjoy.

Problem with your presmise is that ubtil recently the Cardinals were terrible at managing the cap
 

AZCB34

ASFN Icon
Joined
Sep 23, 2002
Posts
14,871
Reaction score
7,117
Location
Mesa, AZ
Here is what the owners could have done:

Michael Bidwill could have gone into the Monday presser and announced that he had relieved Graves of his responsibilities and had personally taken over his position.

His first act as GM would be to send Green packing and replace him with Kurt Warner and have Kurt act as OC calling the plays. Move Kruzack (sp?) back to QB coach/assistant OC. He should tell Pendy that if the D gives up more than 21 points in any game the rest of the season, that he is gone and will be replaced by Frank Bush, and that the whole staff will be fired and replaced by temps from Labor Ready.

The Shark

Mikey B doesn't need to fire Graves to kick Denny to the curb. Graves has shown too much loyalty to simply fire they guy. I don't want him to be GM (I suspect he will be however) but I also think he should be kept on in some role since he has always been a good employee (yes man).
 

AZCB34

ASFN Icon
Joined
Sep 23, 2002
Posts
14,871
Reaction score
7,117
Location
Mesa, AZ
The problem is what risks can you take right now? We are where we are and there isn't a whole lot you can do about it until the start of the next free agent period as far as players are concerned. IMO, we should have fired Green on Monday of this week. It's probably futile to do so, but something needs to be done even if it means bringing in a Marine drill sargent to run this club until next year.

Yup, nothing can be done now short of firing coaches or cutting players. While the Cards have a good grasp on the cap now, they need to loosen the strings a little and risk losing a starter (from a currently horrid team) if it means they can get some instant gratification and get this thing headed towards playoff contention.

I would not have really gone out of my way to re-sign Hayes (they HAD to do it). It sin't a horrible signing but it was done because they had to spend that money and he was the logical choice but that doesn't mean he really deserved it. I am hesitant to add Dockett to this because he has had a decent year...nothing great, but decent.

That is the byproduct of carrying that much extra cap space. You sign extensions for players that maybe don't make the most sense but you are forced to gobble up the space so you are within the rules.

I'll say it again...the Bidwills aren't cheap, they still just have no real idea about how to run the team to achieve winning status.
 

jefftheshark

Drive By Poster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2004
Posts
5,067
Reaction score
520
Location
Viva Las Vegas!
Mikey B doesn't need to fire Graves to kick Denny to the curb. Graves has shown too much loyalty to simply fire they guy. I don't want him to be GM (I suspect he will be however) but I also think he should be kept on in some role since he has always been a good employee (yes man).

If two people in an organization always agree, then one of them is unnecessary. Loyalty is a great trait in a pet, but in the business world, if Graves isn't bringing something valuable to the table he should be shown the door. And for no other reason than to show the Players that the Owners are serious about winning, and that there are more important things than money or friendship involved here.

Michael should also announce that he is only there as an interim GM, and that he has formed a search committee to find his replacement. This act alone would go a long way to lower the emotions that are running high right now.

The Shark
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
88,267
Reaction score
39,911
If two people in an organization always agree, then one of them is unnecessary.

Wow you nailed it. Can you come to my company and tell that to the board of directors?

:D
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
38,692
Reaction score
30,523
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Problem with your presmise is that ubtil recently the Cardinals were terrible at managing the cap

Not really. I'd like to see you justify that statement with some evidence. The Cards got hamstrung by the salary cap for one year when Bidwill gave Jake Plummer a totally ******** contract and another year when a whole bunch of contracts added up all at once and the Cards refused to reduce Jake's number after he offered in print to renegotiate his contract.

I guess in a vaccuum they've been bad, and especially compared to what their record has reflected. But compared to the salary cap disasters that teams like the Tennssee Titans, Baltimore Ravens, Carolina Panthers, Jacksonville Jaguars, and San Francisco 49ers have gone through, the Cards have managed the cap really well.
 

Derm

slippery when wet
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
2,113
Reaction score
0
Location
Tempe - home of the AZ Cardinals
Wow you nailed it. Can you come to my company and tell that to the board of directors?

:D

Dear Russ;

Thank you for your loyal service to our company. It is our sincere wish that you find your departure in good health. Best of luck with your new venture in self-employment.

Love,
Ying & Yang
Directors
 

RedViper

Registered
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
Posts
1,742
Reaction score
19
Location
Flagstaff
Michael should also announce that he is only there as an interim GM, and that he has formed a search committee to find his replacement. This act alone would go a long way to lower the emotions that are running high right now.

The Shark

This I totally agree with. I get the impression right now that they are just hunkering down, staying out of sight, trying to crawl to the end of the season. At the very least Mike Bidwill should say or do something, to show us, they are horrified about this season, and they are doing everything possible to change this status quo of faux-NFL football here.

A few years ago, when Atlanta went in the tank, their owner announced ticket prices would be 10 dollars a seat for the entire upper bowl until they managed to put viable product on the field. The neat thing about it, was you could tell that guy was sickened by what the fans were being put through. We need the owners to do something like that here. Not to just hide at this point. We are left with having to ride out the last seven games of this season watching a team that doesn't even show up to the games anymore. Having Green talk about how the team is going to keep swinging is just comedic. The Spinal Tap of the NFL. If that's what were left with for the rest of the year, that tells you a ton about the ownership and what they are willing to settle for.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
88,267
Reaction score
39,911
Not really. I'd like to see you justify that statement with some evidence. The Cards got hamstrung by the salary cap for one year when Bidwill gave Jake Plummer a totally ******** contract and another year when a whole bunch of contracts added up all at once and the Cards refused to reduce Jake's number after he offered in print to renegotiate his contract.

I guess in a vaccuum they've been bad, and especially compared to what their record has reflected. But compared to the salary cap disasters that teams like the Tennssee Titans, Baltimore Ravens, Carolina Panthers, Jacksonville Jaguars, and San Francisco 49ers have gone through, the Cards have managed the cap really well.


That's sort of a myth, the Cards were NOT in caphell after the jake contract, they were under the cap the problem was the Bidwills didn't have the cash to pay the signing bonuses to Lomas Brown, Jamir Miller, David Boston and LJ Shelton. Remember the Cards made competitive offers to Brown, Centers and made the highest offer to Miller(he signed for much less with Cleveland). They gave Jake such a big signing bonus they couldn't come up with the cash to sign Boston and Shelton, that's why Shelton signed late the signing bonus was so low. THe Cards were not cap strapped then, they were CASH strapped.

Jake said he'd restructure but it was of no help because what he meant was, give me a bonus, I'd reduce my current caphit, and give you more caproom, we didn't need caproom we needed cash. But it was a great PR move for him to make the offer in print.
 

john h

Registered User
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Posts
10,552
Reaction score
13
Location
Little Rock
The Bidwills are flush with cash right now from the stadium deal, that's why they did deals that put up lots of money this year, they had the cash.

The strategy Philly uses helps maintain a GOOD team, the strategy we're using is taking players on a bad team, extending them, and our record is getting WORSE year to year.

Given the cap is rising in chunks every year right now due to the tv deals, it would seem if you're ever going to take risks now would be the time.

I am no accountant but there very well may have been some good tax considerations by doing it this way. Players are business assets and by moving salaries into different years have tax consequences. You can bet that any business man and espically the Bidwills will look at the tax consequences of such moves. The moves may have very well been driven by tax consequences. Then, I am no tax specialist so maybe the Bidwills did this for the team.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
88,267
Reaction score
39,911
I am no accountant but there very well may have been some good tax considerations by doing it this way. Players are business assets and by moving salaries into different years have tax consequences. You can bet that any business man and espically the Bidwills will look at the tax consequences of such moves. The moves may have very well been driven by tax consequences. Then, I am no tax specialist so maybe the Bidwills did this for the team.

I'm sure it's fiscally sound. the question is are we winning games with this strategy?
 

jefftheshark

Drive By Poster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2004
Posts
5,067
Reaction score
520
Location
Viva Las Vegas!
This I totally agree with. I get the impression right now that they are just hunkering down, staying out of sight, trying to crawl to the end of the season. At the very least Mike Bidwill should say or do something, to show us, they are horrified about this season, and they are doing everything possible to change this status quo of faux-NFL football here.

The screw-up of the Tillman ceremony this weekend is a good example. They were correct in apologizing, but they should have taken the additional step and stated what they were going to do to make it right. They should have announced that they were going to do it all over again this coming weekend, but they were silent. It is all well and good to admit that you screwed up, but the true measure of an person or an organization is in how they work to correct the problem.

The Shark
 
Top