Are GM's All Crazy?

[azirish]

For all the criticism the Suns FO gets, it is hard to be too critical when seeing some of the really strange deals that other teams have been made in the last few weeks.

Orlando signs Rashard Lewis to a deal starting at $15 million ($117 million?) and lets Darko Milicic become an unrestricted free agent in order to overpay by that much.

Milwaukee drafts Yi despite being told repeatedly he would not sign and are not paniced because it looks like he might sign.

Milwaukee signs Jake Voskuhl for $3 million despite no evidence that anyone else was even interested.

Spurs give up the rights to Luis Scola in order to dump the salary of Jackie Butler to a team in the same division. They did this in order to sign Matt Bonner $3 million a year and not pay luxury tax. Matt Bonner? Oberto gets $10.5 million for three years and Bonner gets $9 million for three years.

Dallas re-signs Devon George for $2.5 million. He averaged 6.5 ppg on 39.5% and just 35.3% for three.

Toronto pays $24 million over four years for Jason Kapono whom Hoopshpe describes as "Lacks athleticism... bad defender...A role player". Sounds like Pike with longer hair.

 

[pokerface]

Whats so crazy about those moves??


Lewis is a very good player and teams will usually pay a lot getting a guy like that. Lewis and Howard could make some noise out east.

Darko is a bust...I'm sure it was a no brainer dumping him especially if it saves them some money getting Rashard.

If Yi signs with the Bucks thats blows your wasted move theory out the window. The verdict is still out...Even if Yi definately wants out they could still deal hiim for something decent. Its WAY too early to judge that situation.

Voskhul...The guy is competent at least. He hustles and hardly is a 1/year 3 million deal a big gamble or expenditure. If that is such a crime then some of our moves lately (aka Banks, Jones etc) are insane. 3 mill is nothing money by NBA standards...especially if you're getting a somewhat decent big that fills a need.

Irish calling GM's crazy over those moves makes me wonder what you are even thinking.

 

[jbeecham]

Lewis for $117 million over 6 years is freaking crazy. The guy is a 2nd or 3rd option, a complimentary player. I thought he would've been lucky to get a 6yr $70 million deal.

Darko had some good games last year and letting him go for nothing was pretty stupid in my view. He was finally getting a chance to play and was showing improvement. Calling him a bust because Detroit never played him is silly.

I don't have a problem with Jake's contract other than it's with Milwaukee where he's probably never get a chance to play. I think he was making $2-2.5 million last year.

The Yi situation was very stupid on Milwaukee's part because he refused to work out for them, told them he didn't want them to draft him and they still did and are now surprised he refuses to play there.

 

[Chaplin]

Whats so crazy about those moves??


Lewis is a very good player and teams will usually pay a lot getting a guy like that. Lewis and Howard could make some noise out east.

Darko is a bust...I'm sure it was a no brainer dumping him especially if it saves them some money getting Rashard.

If Yi signs with the Bucks thats blows your wasted move theory out the window. The verdict is still out...Even if Yi definately wants out they could still deal hiim for something decent. Its WAY too early to judge that situation.

Voskhul...The guy is competent at least. He hustles and hardly is a 1/year 3 million deal a big gamble or expenditure. If that is such a crime then some of our moves lately (aka Banks, Jones etc) are insane. 3 mill is nothing money by NBA standards...especially if you're getting a somewhat decent big that fills a need.

Irish calling GM's crazy over those moves makes me wonder what you are even thinking.

Sometimes I think you argue just to do it. I've never seen you once agree with anybody. You can disagree only so much before you start seeming like you're doing it just to start fights.

 

[azirish]

BTW, Voskuhl signed for $3 million for ONE year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2941693

 

[pokerface]

BTW, Voskuhl signed for $3 million for ONE year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2941693

I know it was ONE year...why is that bad? You made it sound like he's so overpaid. A one year contract for 3 mill is no biggie....

 

[Errntknght]

One good thing about the Lewis signing - it wasn't after we traded Marion for him and bet we would be able to sign him for what he's worth.

Except for the fact that D'Antoni totally dismissed him once, I wouldn't mind having Voskuhl on the team again when we face the Spurs. He's not KT but he'd do a better job against Duncan than anyone else we have on the team.

 

[Covert Rain]

Sometimes I think you argue just to do it. I've never seen you once agree with anybody. You can disagree only so much before you start seeming like you're doing it just to start fights.

Not to mention not having one positive thing to say about anything the Suns doesn't help either.

 

[pokerface]

Lewis for $117 million over 6 years is freaking crazy. The guy is a 2nd or 3rd option, a complimentary player. I thought he would've been lucky to get a 6yr $70 million deal.

What player could they have signed for a "6yr $70 million deal" thats available and puts up Rashards numbers? Its easy to spout off what a players worth until its time to find such a "deal"...then mum is the word. You dont even know where to find such a deal...Its not like another Lewis calibar player was waiting in the wings to jump in for cheaper.

The Magic want to upgrade...they wanted another threat on thier team and they're looking to get another teams core player. If thats worth 117 mill to them who is to say thats a crazy GM move? Its only crazy if the Magic had better options elsewhere....which apparently they didnt see anyone better to be had.

Darko had some good games last year and letting him go for nothing was pretty stupid in my view. He was finally getting a chance to play and was showing improvement. Calling him a bust because Detroit never played him is silly.

Darko is not a bust?? Mann...why is it every team that takes him on is dumping him like a bad habit. Any player that gets drafted #2 and gets the shaft so easily makes him a bust by anyones standards. Just because he inches along in improving doesnt mean teams have all the time in the wolrd to wait on him either. The Pistons waited YEARS....the Magic didnt see anything in him worth waiting for either.

The Yi situation was very stupid on Milwaukee's part because he refused to work out for them, told them he didn't want them to draft him and they still did and are now surprised he refuses to play there.

You cant let every player that shoots his mouth off determine where he wants to play...ESPECIALLY a rookie. Sure Francis got away with it but he had more clout coming out of college...he was a lot more proven than YI. Yi is still some x-factor unknown that has some proving to do.

Sometimes teams have to call a players bluff...let them prove they dont want to play. Let Yi turn down the millions of dollars and stay poor in his commie country and watch Ming live the good life. Seeing is believing. I think he'll cave in....if not the Bucks still have options.

 

[Gaddabout]

The Pistons waited YEARS....the Magic didnt see anything in him worth waiting for either.

At least the Magic played him. I still think he could be a solid 10/8 guy at 25 minutes for the right team. Detroit with Larry Brown wasn't the right team. There were stories of Darko tearing it up in practice, but Brown just refused to play him because he didn't like him. Not his kind of player, didn't care when or where he was drafted, would never give him a chance no matter what he did in practice.

He was a lot better in Orlando than the picture Detroit painted.

 

[pokerface]

At least the Magic played him. I still think he could be a solid 10/8 guy at 25 minutes for the right team. Detroit with Larry Brown wasn't the right team. There were stories of Darko tearing it up in practice, but Brown just refused to play him because he didn't like him. Not his kind of player, didn't care when or where he was drafted, would never give him a chance no matter what he did in practice.

He was a lot better in Orlando than the picture Detroit painted.

Yeah but Orlando let him go which makes Brown not seem so biased in Detroit. Thats two teams that gave up on him.


*sniff* *sniff*...smells like Skita.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah but Orlando let him go which makes Brown not seem so biased in Detroit. Thats two teams that gave up on him.


*sniff* *sniff*...smells like Skita.

the kid DEFINITELY has NOT come anywhere close to living up to the hype, but his numbers the last two years are FAR superior to Skita. Smells more like Kwame Brown - basically a just below average big man, who has "upside" and someone is willing to risk a 3 year deal to hope he continues to improve as he has.

i don't think it's too early to say that the kid hasn't come close to living up to expectations, especially considering where he was picked, but an outright bust or Skit-ish isn't really fair at this point, although he ain't got much more time to make his case that he's completely worthy of that title.

 

[jbeecham]

Sometimes teams have to call a players bluff...let them prove they dont want to play. Let Yi turn down the millions of dollars and stay poor in his commie country and watch Ming live the good life. Seeing is believing. I think he'll cave in....if not the Bucks still have options.

Sure the Bucks have options if Yi won't play there, but they could've drafted another player ready to contribute right away. That's what makes them stupid. You don't gamble and call a players bluff in one of the deepest drafts in years when you have the #5 pick. Now if they trade him, they probably won't get good value in return.

 

[pokerface]

Sure the Bucks have options if Yi won't play there, but they could've drafted another player ready to contribute right away. That's what makes them stupid. You don't gamble and call a players bluff in one of the deepest drafts in years when you have the #5 pick. Now if they trade him, they probably won't get good value in return.

The verdict is still out...Let Yi walk the walk instead of talk the talk. Let him sit out next season then I believe.

 

[elindholm]

So which is it: GMs are all crazy, or trades can never happen because they aren't perfect for each team involved? It seems kind of contradictory to advocate both of those positions.

 

[dodie53]

imo,
giving lewis that kind of contract is crazy..

can the guy even fill the arena with his presence alone?

 

[PetryJr]

can the guy even fill the arena with his presence alone?

No, he's not Oliver Miller.

 

[dodie53]

or sweetney

 

[azirish]

So which is it: GMs are all crazy, or trades can never happen because they aren't perfect for each team involved? It seems kind of contradictory to advocate both of those positions.

Obviously the topic title was an exaggeration, but I really wonder what these GM's are thinking.

In any case, the rational trades are not about crazy GMs or perfection. They come from teams having different needs and goals which become complimentary. Dealing with a crazy person may make it easier to take advantage or harder because of not recognizing a good deal when faced with it.

BTW, I did not trash the Randolph deal although I'm skeptical that it will work out for either team and I'm even more confused why the Sonics prefer Wally to Ray Allen. I'm not sure these moves are crazy, but neither have I heard a convincing explanation of them.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm even more confused why the Sonics prefer Wally to Ray Allen. I'm not sure these moves are crazy, but neither have I heard a convincing explanation of them.[/FONT]

George, I'm really trying to be polite here, but how you don't see that Seattle prefered rebuilding with Delonte and the 5th pick over an aging Allen, who's era had run it's course in Seattle, is beyond me. Wally just made the salaries match.

 

[Joe Mama]

the kid DEFINITELY has NOT come anywhere close to living up to the hype, but his numbers the last two years are FAR superior to Skita. Smells more like Kwame Brown - basically a just below average big man, who has "upside" and someone is willing to risk a 3 year deal to hope he continues to improve as he has.

i don't think it's too early to say that the kid hasn't come close to living up to expectations, especially considering where he was picked, but an outright bust or Skit-ish isn't really fair at this point, although he ain't got much more time to make his case that he's completely worthy of that title.

I'm right there with you, cheese. I kind of doubt he'll ever live up to his #2 drafting, especially considering who was drafted just after him. He's not worthless though. The guy is enormous. He has some skills. He's not a total stiff. I don't think they overpaid him. Orlando definitely blew it just letting him go. What they did me no sense at all.

Joe

 

[azirish]

George, I'm really trying to be polite here, but how you don't see that Seattle prefered rebuilding with Delonte and the 5th pick over an aging Allen, who's era had run it's course in Seattle, is beyond me. Wally just made the salaries match.

They have Delonte for one year before he becomes an RFA, so it is basically Ray Allen for Jeff Green and Wally. Maybe you are right and this is a great deal. As I said I don't think they are crazy, just I remain unconvinced it is a particularly good trade.

 

[Cheesebeef]

They have Delonte for one year before he becomes an RFA, so it is basically Ray Allen for Jeff Green and Wally.

um, actually, considering they have the right of first refusal with West as an RFA, it's West for at least two years if they want him and the number 5 pick for Allen, with Wally thrown in to make the salaries work.

Maybe you are right and this is a great deal.

Uh, where did I say such a thing? I didn't and in the future, I'd appreciate you not putting words into my mouth.

Again, Wally was thrown in to make salaries work - I think it's pretty easy to say that by letting their top two stars go, the Sonics are looking to completely rebuild and how do most teams do that? With youth. Now considering that, it's blantantly obvious that the principles in the Allen trade were a young promising PG and a top 5 pick, not the aging overpaid player thrown in to make the salaries work. Whether it's good or bad, I don't know, but to say they prefered Wally over Allen makes no sense whatsover and is a grave misunderstanding of the situation IMO.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Sometimes I think you argue just to do it. I've never seen you once agree with anybody. You can disagree only so much before you start seeming like you're doing it just to start fights.

Youre just now realizing this? Im pretty confident pokerface doesnt believe half the stuff he writes, he just wants to bite ankles.

 

[mathbzh]

They have Delonte for one year before he becomes an RFA, so it is basically Ray Allen for Jeff Green and Wally. Maybe you are right and this is a great deal. As I said I don't think they are crazy, just I remain unconvinced it is a particularly good trade.

Seattle wants to build a team arround Durant and Probably Swift. This could take many years to make this team good enough to win a championship. In 4 or 5 years Allen will be 36 and ready to retire and Lewis would have been a backup for Kevin. By sending them away now Seattle free the cap space to add the good piece arround Durant and Swift and ensure a few more lottery pick.
When you have a look at the 2008 free agent list you see that cap space could be something to have. I don't think it is a very good trade (I don't like the "lose now to win later" attitude) but the logic is obvious.