Are we overestimating the talent on this roster?

[Duckjake]

Exactly how I feel. It is getting to be now or never with the current guys on the team.

I think the team is in good shape to make a run.

I agree.

How many people thought the Giants had the talent to win the SuperBowl last March. Or that Green Bay had the talent to go 13'3. Do the Jaguars really have that much better talent than the Cards. Id like to hear what people think about that.

(excuse the punctuation or lack thereof. My keyboard just went nuts)

 

[slanidrac16]

I think we as a group are very fair in our assessment of players on this team. Heck, there are times WE assess the players better than the darn organization does. How many times have you read in this forum "We should move Rolle to safety?"

As far as what happened in 04, 05, and 06 means nothing to me, especially 06 when the whole ball of yarn started to unravel.
Last year, EVERYBODY was learning. Players and coaching staff alike. NEw systems. New off season program. New training camp. New players playing next to new teamates.
This year I will be shocked if we don't see a drastic reduction in penalties and mental mistakes if for no other reason than everyone being familiar with their surroundings, teamates and system.

I also believe that when a coaching staff has a year to evaluate a players ability , they can focus on their weaknesses and put players in a position to succeed. Many times players fail because they are asked to do somethng not within their capabilities. Kinda like asking a player to hit a home run when he is not a power hitter.

We saw that this year when the staff expected Holt to cover somebody....anybody.

 

[red desert]

Oh, there's a surprise post.

Is there an echo in here?

 

[SuperSpck]

in a forum where there are people who believe that Whis should be fired and people who think that Whis has already proved himself as being the best coach in the NFC West, I think that it's impossible to generalize.

That's a point.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

For real. I was thinking about that. Look at the (probable) starting roster for the 2008 Arizona Cardinals (NFL Experience in parentheses):

OFFENSE:

Backfield:
RB: Edgerrin James (10)
FB: Terrelle Smith (9)
QB: Matt Leinart (3)


Offensive Line:
LT: Mike Gandy (8)
LG: Reggie Wells (6)
C: Al Johnson (6)
RG: Deuce Lutui (3)
RT: Levi Brown (2)

Receivers:
WR1A: Anquan Boldin (6)
WR1B: Larry Fitzgerald (5)
TE1: Leonard Pope (3)
TE2: Jeremy Tuman (10)
WR3: Sean Morey (7)

DEFENSE:

Defensive Line:
RDE: Darnell Dockett (5)
NT: Gabe Watson (4)
LDE: Antonio Smith (5)

Linebackers:
ROLB: Bertrand Berry (11)
RILB: Karlos Dansby (5)
LILB: Gerald Hayes (6)
LOLB: Chike Okeafor (9)

Backfield:

RCB: Eric Green (4)
FS: Aaron Francisco (4)
SS: Adrian Wilson (8)
LCB: Roderick Hood (6)
NB: Antrel Rolle (4)

There are no excuses for this team making stupid mistakes. There are no excuses for this team not to compete. For the first time in what feels like a decade, we have a roster where there isn't one starter that I can see wouldn't make the roster of another NFL club (which says a lot about the state of Arizona Cardinal football since 1997). The time to win is now. There is no next year.

And if the Cards fail to keep both Fitz and Dansby next year, we'll likely be starting the whole process over again. That's how important keeping them both is.

How can anyone overrate the talent on this team when Sean Morey is listed as the #3 WR? That made me sick to see that .

 

[DaisyCutter]

How can anyone overrate the talent on this team when Sean Morey is listed as the #3 WR? That made me sick to see that .

I actually expect/hope that we see very little of Morey next year, even if we don't sign or draft another WR. Hopefully, Breaston will overtake him on the roster in that role (though I expect that Breaston will be even less dependable than Bryant Johnson).

More importantly, I think we'll see a lot of 2 TE packages where we'll have the option to flex Leonard Pope into the slot. He's 85% useless as an in-line blocker, but going from an "ace" set with Pope and Patrick on the ends to a 4WR set where they're split outside can make for some nice matchups.

 

[Doc Cardinal]

The draft COULD solve some of the depth problems. Without proper depth we're only an injury or two away from being screwed. No more linebackers like Blackstock or Johnson who are full of potential. I want someone who is ready to play if someone gets hurt. This draft does have the linebackers and cornerbacks and safeties that can do that....that is IF we draft those positions correctly.

The big question that I ask someone already alluded to.....that is.....could many of these guys play for other NFL teams? I think the answer is yes and it's answered in a non-koolaid homer way....even though I'm a homer kool-aid guy.

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

There are no excuses for this team making stupid mistakes. There are no excuses for this team not to compete. For the first time in what feels like a decade, we have a roster where there isn't one starter that I can see wouldn't make the roster of another NFL club (which says a lot about the state of Arizona Cardinal football since 1997). The time to win is now. There is no next year.

I agree, and I think this is where nobody is giving Graves any credit. The "old" Cardinals wouldn't have locked up Fitz, or given Boldin a new contract a few years back. The "old" Cardinals would have let Hayes go, as well as Shipp (which doesn't mean much), the "old" Cardinals would have let Wilson leave, and Dansby would probably be upset for being tagged. People want to stay here, and the Cards are making sure it happens- hell, we even were able to keep Haley. Berry wouldn't have restructured for the "old" Cards. That's huge- it makes us not a "young team", and I think the o-line will be much better this year, as well as the overall coaching.



Oh yeah, rumor has it the Almighty Quan came up with the numbers that everyone agreed to... (joking- but there hasn't been an Almighty Quan reference on this board in awhile....)

 

[Duckjake]

The draft COULD solve some of the depth problems. Without proper depth we're only an injury or two away from being screwed. No more linebackers like Blackstock or Johnson who are full of potential. I want someone who is ready to play if someone gets hurt. This draft does have the linebackers and cornerbacks and safeties that can do that....that is IF we draft those positions correctly.

The big question that I ask someone already alluded to.....that is.....could many of these guys play for other NFL teams? I think the answer is yes and it's answered in a non-koolaid homer way....even though I'm a homer kool-aid guy.

We see evidence of this every week as former Cardinal players get signed by other teams. In the past a lot of the guys the Cardinal released would just vanish from the NFL.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

We see evidence of this every week as former Cardinal players get signed by other teams. In the past a lot of the guys the Cardinal released would just vanish from the NFL.

Moa Tosi could have been All-Pro.

Joel Mackovica....never given a chance!

 

[Duckjake]

Moa Tosi could have been All-Pro.

Joel Mackovica....never given a chance!

LOL I remember one national magazine had Mao Tosi as one of its four top "sleeper" picks in that year's draft.

 

[Doc Cardinal]

Guess who they're talking about:

"He's a worthy pro bowler. He tormented QB's last year and recorded 12 sacks."

Yes....that's right.....it's Mr. KVB.

 

[Duckjake]

Guess who they're talking about:

"He's a worthy pro bowler. He tormented QB's last year and recorded 12 sacks."

Yes....that's right.....it's Mr. KVB.

I'll call your KVB with a Wendall Bryant and raise you a Ray Thompson.

 

[Doc Cardinal]

I'll call your KVB with a Wendall Bryant and raise you a Ray Thompson.

Wendall was just a major bust and Ray was too darn skinny....I liked Ray though....would tackle his grandma in a wheelchair.

 

[Duckjake]

Wendall was just a major bust and Ray was too darn skinny....I liked Ray though....would tackle his grandma in a wheelchair.

That was the number one problem with Cardinal defenses for a long time. They were just too small. I could never understand why the Cards kept drafting undersized defensive players especially linebackers.

Fortunately size is no longer a problem for our defense.

 

[ShadowGBQ]

No we're not.

I haven't posted on this board for a number of years. I intended by first post to be some dramatic, cathartic experience but I just decided to comment on this thread because I'm questioning my own sanity.

Injuries! How can anyone think we're overrating a team that went 8-8 with such a massive amount of key injuries? I think it was a minor miracle, though the team definitely blew a chance to make the playoffs, to have been competitive given the injuries at hand was unreal.

Every time goes through injuries. But dig the Cardinals: Our first string QB is hurt, out for the year. Then his backup gets hurt.

The starting left tackle was injured and the guy who replaced him went down too. Then the center was injured and the center's backup was injured and we played an undrafted rookie at center. The starting tight end was hurt. Both starting WR's missed crucial playing time and were banged up when they did play.

On defense, let's see. Berry and Okeafor were both out. But we drafted a stud defensive lineman, Branch. He got hurt. Eric Green went on injured reserve. Dansby was hurt. Adrian Wilson went down and (of course) the guy who replaced him got hurt too, so now we had undrafted rookies starting at C and SS, two reasonably important positions on a football team.

We played with what, one? two? active QB's for a couple of games? Thank god we had Boldin as an emergency QB. Oh, wait, he was hurt too.

Every team goes through injuries and it's not an excuse, but imagine if New England or the Giants or the Cowboys had these kind of injuries. If Eli Manning went down & the guy who replaced him went down & they replaced him with Tim Hasselback, who had 3 days to practice with the team, and then the 2nd string QB comes back and plays 6 games with a brace on one arm, how many games do the Giants win?

If the Colts lost Payton Manning and Bob Sanders to injured reserve and 5 or 6 of their other pro bowl starters went down for more than 3 games, I don't even see them making the playoffs.

I'm not saying the Cardinals compare to those teams yet. But they deserve a healthy or semi-healthy season to show us what they can do. Imagine if some 8-8 team (that we as Cardinals fans were neutral to) went out in free agency and signed Matt Leinart, Adrian Wilson, Anquan Boldin, Leonard Pope, Bertrand Berry, Okeafor, Laboy (sic?), Green, Dansby and possibly Brandon Chillar. I think you'd give them a good chance to make the playoffs.

I'll decide this team is overrated when they play healthy, with fair officiating and still lose.

 

[SuperSpck]

I haven't posted on this board for a number of years. I intended by first post to be some dramatic, cathartic experience but I just decided to comment on this thread because I'm questioning my own sanity.

Good post. Hello and welcome. Thanks for not bashing a player or front office manager right out of the gate!

 

[40yearfan]

I haven't posted on this board for a number of years. I intended by first post to be some dramatic, cathartic experience but I just decided to comment on this thread because I'm questioning my own sanity.

Injuries! How can anyone think we're overrating a team that went 8-8 with such a massive amount of key injuries? I think it was a minor miracle, though the team definitely blew a chance to make the playoffs, to have been competitive given the injuries at hand was unreal.

Every time goes through injuries. But dig the Cardinals: Our first string QB is hurt, out for the year. Then his backup gets hurt.

The starting left tackle was injured and the guy who replaced him went down too. Then the center was injured and the center's backup was injured and we played an undrafted rookie at center. The starting tight end was hurt. Both starting WR's missed crucial playing time and were banged up when they did play.

On defense, let's see. Berry and Okeafor were both out. But we drafted a stud defensive lineman, Branch. He got hurt. Eric Green went on injured reserve. Dansby was hurt. Adrian Wilson went down and (of course) the guy who replaced him got hurt too, so now we had undrafted rookies starting at C and SS, two reasonably important positions on a football team.

We played with what, one? two? active QB's for a couple of games? Thank god we had Boldin as an emergency QB. Oh, wait, he was hurt too.

Every team goes through injuries and it's not an excuse, but imagine if New England or the Giants or the Cowboys had these kind of injuries. If Eli Manning went down & the guy who replaced him went down & they replaced him with Tim Hasselback, who had 3 days to practice with the team, and then the 2nd string QB comes back and plays 6 games with a brace on one arm, how many games do the Giants win?

If the Colts lost Payton Manning and Bob Sanders to injured reserve and 5 or 6 of their other pro bowl starters went down for more than 3 games, I don't even see them making the playoffs.

I'm not saying the Cardinals compare to those teams yet. But they deserve a healthy or semi-healthy season to show us what they can do. Imagine if some 8-8 team (that we as Cardinals fans were neutral to) went out in free agency and signed Matt Leinart, Adrian Wilson, Anquan Boldin, Leonard Pope, Bertrand Berry, Okeafor, Laboy (sic?), Green, Dansby and possibly Brandon Chillar. I think you'd give them a good chance to make the playoffs.

I'll decide this team is overrated when they play healthy, with fair officiating and still lose.

HEAR HEAR!!!! Great first post and welcome to ASFN.

 

[Skkorpion]

Good blast from the past. Any of you old timers remember on late night radio "...The Shadow knows"?

 

[joeshmo]

I'll decide this team is overrated when they play healthy, with fair officiating and still lose.

Then you will be waiting a very long time to be able to properly judge this team let alone any team in the league.

Interesting item of note. We actually won more games without Boldin and Wilson then we did with them last year. Also our Schedule turned out to be the 3rd easiest schedule in the league last year. Will be one of the hardest this coming season. We have to be healthy just to get back to 8-8 with that schedule. Have to get better or maybe I should say smarter as a team to go past that .500 mark next year regardless of injuries.

 

[SuperSpck]

Good blast from the past. Any of you old timers remember on late night radio "...The Shadow knows"?

I remember the movie that was inspired by the radio show. The film stared one of the Baldwins. It wasn't very good...

 

[40yearfan]

Good blast from the past. Any of you old timers remember on late night radio "...The Shadow knows"?

Yes I do. That and the Lone Ranger and listening to Joe Lewis fights. My how times have changed.

 

[Stout]

Yes I do. That and the Lone Ranger and listening to Joe Lewis fights. My how times have changed.

Is your social security number naught naught naught-naught naught-naught naught naught 3? Because we all know you can't be older than Mr. Burns

 

[40yearfan]

Is your social security number naught naught naught-naught naught-naught naught naught 3? Because we all know you can't be older than Mr. Burns

Hey, it's not 3. I'm not that old. It's 375.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Is your social security number naught naught naught-naught naught-naught naught naught 3? Because we all know you can't be older than Mr. Burns

Did you get that from a Jeopardy answer? I watched that episode too.