ARI @ NO: Heroes and Goats

[kerouac9]

Well, that three-game win streak was fun, but the reminder of how far we have to go to become competitive with the best teams in the NFL was pretty clear.

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Charles Clay - Very nice catch and run to start off the game. Clay can provide a lot of value as an H-back and a flex player in this offense.

Chandler Jones - His near-sack of Drew Brees in the first quarter basically set the tone for the game in general. He deserves to have one other good player in the front seven.

Andy Lee - It's good to be back, facing a 6-win season and saying that your punter is one of the best players on the team. Feels like home.

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Damiere Byrd - Targeted 5 times and ended up with 2 receptions for 18 yards. He played 43% of the offensive snaps. I hope he had a good week of practice, because he wasn't helpful at all.

Terrell Suggs - He's about to join Budda Baker, Andy Isabella (1 offensive snap!) and Haason Reddick as Always Goats who only appear on this list of their especially execrable. One QB hit and an encroachment habit that highlights how slow off the line he's become. Because he's slow, he can't even be used as a situational pass rusher anymore, and opponents are targeting him.

Justin Pugh - The per-carry stats for the rushing offense look okay because we didn't really try to run the ball, but Kingsbury challenged the left side of the offensive line and they got blown back. I still feel like this is an average to below-average group.

Did the future of football arrive?

I didn't mind the fourth down call. This offense had been in a coma since the first quarter and something needed to happen before the dam broke. Kingsbury had been consistent at trying to bail out Murray's short throws on third-and-long by going for it. Every receiver looked like they felt they didn't belong on the field, and that's a huge problem.

 

[Arz101]

Every receiver looked like they felt they didn't belong on the field, and that's a huge problem.

THIS

 

[Russ Smith]

One quibble the Murray short throw you're referring to was a 2nd and 17 play he hit for 16. the 3rd down play was a bad throw but again it's pretty clear he and Edmonds are not on the same page on passes, Chase doesn't run the route the way DJ does and Murray hasn't gotten comfortable throwing to him.

So the go on 4th down was not bailing out Murray for throwing short we were actually pretty fortunate to even be in that situation after the sack.

I still strongly believe that Kliff got caught up in the emotion, we finally made a play on defense, we have a chance to go take the lead, and he didn't want to punt 3 and out after so he had his mind made up he was going for it and didn't get it. Which as you said was in part on Pugh.

 

[kerouac9]

One quibble the Murray short throw you're referring to was a 2nd and 17 play he hit for 16. the 3rd down play was a bad throw but again it's pretty clear he and Edmonds are not on the same page on passes, Chase doesn't run the route the way DJ does and Murray hasn't gotten comfortable throwing to him.

So the go on 4th down was not bailing out Murray for throwing short we were actually pretty fortunate to even be in that situation after the sack.

I still strongly believe that Kliff got caught up in the emotion, we finally made a play on defense, we have a chance to go take the lead, and he didn't want to punt 3 and out after so he had his mind made up he was going for it and didn't get it. Which as you said was in part on Pugh.

It wasn't just this example. Murray consistently throws well short of the sticks on third and long. I went over it on another thread last week that I don't want to look up anymore.

Murray yesterday was 4 for 11 on third downs with 2 first downs. The other completions were -2 yards to Chase Edmonds on 3rd and 7 and a 7 yard completion to Kirk on 3rd and 10.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Well, that three-game win streak was fun, but the reminder of how far we have to go to become competitive with the best teams in the NFL was pretty clear.

You must be registered for see images attach

Charles Clay - Very nice catch and run to start off the game. Clay can provide a lot of value as an H-back and a flex player in this offense.

Chandler Jones - His near-sack of Drew Brees in the first quarter basically set the tone for the game in general. He deserves to have one other good player in the front seven.

Andy Lee - It's good to be back, facing a 6-win season and saying that your punter is one of the best players on the team. Feels like home.

You must be registered for see images attach

Damiere Byrd - Targeted 5 times and ended up with 2 receptions for 18 yards. He played 43% of the offensive snaps. I hope he had a good week of practice, because he wasn't helpful at all.

Terrell Suggs - He's about to join Budda Baker, Andy Isabella (1 offensive snap!) and Haason Reddick as Always Goats who only appear on this list of their especially execrable. One QB hit and an encroachment habit that highlights how slow off the line he's become. Because he's slow, he can't even be used as a situational pass rusher anymore, and opponents are targeting him.

Justin Pugh - The per-carry stats for the rushing offense look okay because we didn't really try to run the ball, but Kingsbury challenged the left side of the offensive line and they got blown back. I still feel like this is an average to below-average group.

Did the future of football arrive?

I didn't mind the fourth down call. This offense had been in a coma since the first quarter and something needed to happen before the dam broke. Kingsbury had been consistent at trying to bail out Murray's short throws on third-and-long by going for it. Every receiver looked like they felt they didn't belong on the field, and that's a huge problem.

I know Suggs is probably kind of a sacred cow around here, so I'll take on the role of the bad guy, and call him out along with K9.

If Keim's head rolls down the halls of Hardy drive at the end of the season (or before), his supporters wont have to look any further than the two step process of letting Marcus Golden walk, and replacing him with an undead version of T-sizzle. I'd put a healthy Cassius Marsh out there before Suggs. In a heartbeat.

 

[unseenaz]

One quibble the Murray short throw you're referring to was a 2nd and 17 play he hit for 16. the 3rd down play was a bad throw but again it's pretty clear he and Edmonds are not on the same page on passes, Chase doesn't run the route the way DJ does and Murray hasn't gotten comfortable throwing to him.

the same thing was said in the GDT about the throw and route. it doesn’t really matter if chase ran a different route than what Kyler expected, he was wide open and a good throw was a guaranteed first down. He couldn’t read that chase ran a modified route? Why was the TE even in the picture 10 yards On top of chase is the other real question

 

[Russ Smith]

It wasn't just this example. Murray consistently throws well short of the sticks on third and long. I went over it on another thread last week that I don't want to look up anymore.

Murray yesterday was 4 for 11 on third downs with 2 first downs. The other completions were -2 yards to Chase Edmonds on 3rd and 7 and a 7 yard completion to Kirk on 3rd and 10.

I know I just meant on this 4th down, it wasn't related to throwing short.

On the gameday thread people brought it up before halftime, I actually disagreed on THAT play. Kliff seems completely clueless about the clock right now we threw 2 straight passes and suddenly it's 3rd and long and we're looking at punting to the Saints with more than 2 minutes left. Murray completed one short to Kirk as you mentioned. If you check you'll see that completion ran 30 seconds off the clock with the clock running to the 2 minute warning then the punt. If he tries to go past the first down and gets it great, we're all happy, if it's incomplete, we're punting. So by completing that short pass he saved us 30 seconds and the Saints ran out of time and couldn't kick a FG.

Not saying as Murray is back there he's thinking if I complete this short they will run out of time but I would be very surprised if he wasn't told we're throwing it so if the first down isn't wide open, take a short play or run and stay in bounds, we need to take some time off the clock.

 

[Russ Smith]

the same thing was said in the GDT about the throw and route. it doesn’t really matter if chase ran a different route than what Kyler expected, he was wide open and a good throw was a guaranteed first down. He couldn’t read that chase ran a modified route? Why was the TE even in the picture 10 yards On top of chase is the other real question

Yeah I don't know but you can see that he's clearly unhappy with the route right after the play is over. I mentioned the TE too I guess he was there to block but it just brought over extra defense IMO.

I don't know why he just doesn't seem to like throwing to Chase. The wheel route where he grounded it, Chase broke WIDE open. If he just throws it down the left sideline it's either a TD or incomplete the safety just can't get there way too far to go. And that IMO was a called play he has to know Chase is there but he instead grounded it.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

If people are down on recievers then Larry should be included. That non-TD catch yesterday where he didnt drag his second foot was the difference in the game as far as momentum. Equal blame to spread around for yesterdays loss.

 

[BigRedRage]

doesnt suggs get a strip sack in 50% of his games so far this year?

 

[Dante]

doesnt suggs get a strip sack in 50% of his games so far this year?

I thought that was Chandler Jones?

 

[BigRedRage]

I thought that was Chandler Jones?

They both have 4 strip sacks I believe.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I know Suggs is probably kind of a sacred cow around here, so I'll take on the role of the bad guy, and call him out along with K9.

If Keim's head rolls down the halls of Hardy drive at the end of the season (or before), his supporters wont have to look any further than the two step process of letting Marcus Golden walk, and replacing him with an undead version of T-sizzle. I'd put a healthy Cassius Marsh out there before Suggs. In a heartbeat.

We let golden go the previous offseason.

But the Suggs signing is rotting in the heat right in front of us.

 

[BigRedRage]

The Cards lead the NFL with 10 strip-sacks already this season. Jones and Suggs have four each, tied with Houston's Whitney Mercilus for most in the league.

https://www.azcardinals.com/news/stripped-down-sacks-about-the-turnover-for-cardinals

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

doesnt suggs get a strip sack in 50% of his games so far this year?

Does the single strip sack every other game make up for disappearance on all other plays?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The Cards lead the NFL with 10 strip-sacks already this season. Jones and Suggs have four each, tied with Houston's Whitney Mercilus for most in the league.

https://www.azcardinals.com/news/stripped-down-sacks-about-the-turnover-for-cardinals

That’s impressive.

 

[BigRedRage]

Does the single strip sack every other game make up for disappearance on all other plays?

I just don't think he is the giant failure people are painting him as. If he gets to 10 sacks on the year, he did his job.

 

[BigRedRage]

he has made chandler jones better too.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Well, that three-game win streak was fun, but the reminder of how far we have to go to become competitive with the best teams in the NFL was pretty clear.

You must be registered for see images attach

Charles Clay - Very nice catch and run to start off the game. Clay can provide a lot of value as an H-back and a flex player in this offense.

Chandler Jones - His near-sack of Drew Brees in the first quarter basically set the tone for the game in general. He deserves to have one other good player in the front seven.

Andy Lee - It's good to be back, facing a 6-win season and saying that your punter is one of the best players on the team. Feels like home.

You must be registered for see images attach

Damiere Byrd - Targeted 5 times and ended up with 2 receptions for 18 yards. He played 43% of the offensive snaps. I hope he had a good week of practice, because he wasn't helpful at all.

Terrell Suggs - He's about to join Budda Baker, Andy Isabella (1 offensive snap!) and Haason Reddick as Always Goats who only appear on this list of their especially execrable. One QB hit and an encroachment habit that highlights how slow off the line he's become. Because he's slow, he can't even be used as a situational pass rusher anymore, and opponents are targeting him.

Justin Pugh - The per-carry stats for the rushing offense look okay because we didn't really try to run the ball, but Kingsbury challenged the left side of the offensive line and they got blown back. I still feel like this is an average to below-average group.

Did the future of football arrive?

I didn't mind the fourth down call. This offense had been in a coma since the first quarter and something needed to happen before the dam broke. Kingsbury had been consistent at trying to bail out Murray's short throws on third-and-long by going for it. Every receiver looked like they felt they didn't belong on the field, and that's a huge problem.

Your best so far

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I just don't think he is the giant failure people are painting him as. If he gets to 10 sacks on the year, he did his job.

I was talking about this on another thread. And not just about Suggs. Someone brought up the fact the cards are 9th in the league in sacks. But when you watch the team it doesn’t seem like a team that applies consistent pressure. It’s more feast or famine. We either get a sack (with a strip a lot of times) or we give the QB all day to sit back and pick us apart. And obviously the latter happens a lot more frequently than the former. Would like to see the stats for pressures and hurries. I’m betting we are bottom third.

so if Suggs notched 10 sacks in the season it would have the appearance of a good season but if he was otherwise invisible, as a full time player, that’s a failure of epic magnitude imo.

 

[kerouac9]

We let golden go the previous offseason.

But the Suggs signing is rotting in the heat right in front of us.

We let Golden leave this last off-season.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I was talking about this on another thread. And not just about Suggs. Someone brought up the fact the cards are 9th in the league in sacks. But when you watch the team it doesn’t seem like a team that applies consistent pressure. It’s more feast or famine. We either get a sack (with a strip a lot of times) or we give the QB all day to sit back and pick us apart. And obviously the latter happens a lot more frequently than the former. Would like to see the stats for pressures and hurries. I’m betting we are bottom third.

so if Suggs notched 10 sacks in the season it would have the appearance of a good season but if he was otherwise invisible, as a full time player, that’s a failure of epic magnitude imo.

The difference between 9 and 15 in sacks is two right now. And we are tied for 9th with three other teams.

We are 13th in pressures with 69.

We are also tied for 11th in QB knock downs with the Packers.

All of this gets blended together and equals a 21% pressure rate. That's 19th in the league.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/opp.htm

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We let Golden leave this last off-season.

Wow that’s amazing. I have zero recollection of his play last year. Wilks did a number on me.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The difference between 9 and 15 in sacks is two right now. And we are tied for 9th with three other teams.

We are 13th in pressures with 69. A 21% rate right now.

We are also tied for 11th in QB knock downs with the Packers.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/opp.htm

Interesting. Sure doesn’t feel like that watching a game.

 

[BigRedRage]

I was talking about this on another thread. And not just about Suggs. Someone brought up the fact the cards are 9th in the league in sacks. But when you watch the team it doesn’t seem like a team that applies consistent pressure. It’s more feast or famine. We either get a sack (with a strip a lot of times) or we give the QB all day to sit back and pick us apart. And obviously the latter happens a lot more frequently than the former. Would like to see the stats for pressures and hurries. I’m betting we are bottom third.

so if Suggs notched 10 sacks in the season it would have the appearance of a good season but if he was otherwise invisible, as a full time player, that’s a failure of epic magnitude imo.

I would venture to guess that terrible defensive line play has more to do with that than suggs himself.

I agree with the notion, I just dont think he is a miserable waste of space like people paint him to be.