Arians: Palmer "didn't lose the damn game."

[Cheesebeef]

best thing about last night was that it made our deficiencies GLARING. Our top 5 defense was a paper tiger all year, IMO. Whenever we played the best offenses in the league, what happened? We gave up 31 to Cincy, 32 and 36 to Seattle and 49 to Carolina. Now, with a healthy HB, we probably don't give up 49 yesterday, but I still think we get the wood laid to us pretty easily simply because against the best QBs in the game who have weapons, if you give them all day to throw, they're going to burn you. We couldn't rush the passer to save our live except one WILD game where we had 1/4 of our sacks for the season. And as far as our run D, a good chunk of that rating can be attributed to the fact that our offense getting off to huge leads meant opposing offenses had to abandon the run and start to pass early and often.

Bottom line for me if that the D did it this year with smoke and mirrors, but that can't continue. The front 7 can not continue to be as vanilla as it is, with role players pretty much EVERYWHERE and not one stud amongst the bunch.

 

[Phrazbit]

It was a group effort. The only guy who really seemed to play with force and energy from start to finish was David Johnson. Even Larry had some bad drops.

If everyone else had played up to par and Carson was still THAT terrible, we have no chance whatsoever, but IMO a lot of his awful play was trying to force it because things were going so poorly all around. Same thing with Peterson's muffed punt. He was forcing things, trying to be a hero and made a awful play.

 

[conraddobler]

It was a group effort. The only guy who really seemed to play with force and energy from start to finish was David Johnson. Even Larry had some bad drops.

If everyone else had played up to par and Carson was still THAT terrible, we have no chance whatsoever, but IMO a lot of his awful play was trying to force it because things were going so poorly all around. Same thing with Peterson's muffed punt. He was forcing things, trying to be a hero and made a awful play.

This.

Once the train starts going off the track then the capes come out and when mere mortals wear capes things go bad in a hurry.

Peterson epitomized this as you said.

BA takes the blame IMO to be a great coach you tell your team the truth. Hey guys, this team will beat the **** out of you the second you put on the capes.

Don't put them on, do your job, everyone do your job even if it's not going well especially then DO YOUR JOBS you can't cover 2nd if you're a shortstop you're going to just open up another hole if the 2nd basemen sucks then he sucks play your position.

That game could of been won with the proper mindset. The truth is we could beat anyone if we have a good game. We did not need to throw out our best game to win that game.

We needed to not make mistakes and we made them.

You take every turnover out of that game it's close, they won because we screwed up.

We play nearly mistake free we have a chance to win that game, the entire attitude turns around.

BA lost the teams belief they started to think they had to put the capes on once they believe that they've already lost the game.

The first cape coming on should of been cause for a timeout and an ass chewing telling them to knock it off. That game was lost day one of practice. It should of been hammered into those guys all season to NEVER do what they just did. He needed to take control and get them to understand that they were choking and to knock it off.

Maybe he did all this in that case it's on them for not listening.

The no risk it no biscuit type of thing is fine but it doesn't tell the truth of football.

Great coaches tell their teams things are going to go wrong it's a that moment when you have faith in each other that will get you through the storms. You can not give up ever.

 

[Dude]

Palmer was the single worst culprit, but that was as big a team meltdown as you could possibly have. STs not only gave up a big punt return (again) but they also fumbled the ball. Complete fail there. The D gave up 17 points on its first three series (before the turnovers). Fail there. And Palmer was atrocious. Literally, EVERYONE except David Johnson crapped the bed last night from the opening kick.

+1

 

[Jetstream Green]

Palmer was the single worst culprit, but that was as big a team meltdown as you could possibly have. STs not only gave up a big punt return (again) but they also fumbled the ball. Complete fail there. The D gave up 17 points on its first three series (before the turnovers). Fail there. And Palmer was atrocious. Literally, EVERYONE except David Johnson crapped the bed last night from the opening kick.

JJ Nelson and Fells came to play in my opinion

 

[Buckybird]

JJ Nelson and Fells came to play in my opinion

& yet had little impact. The Cards stars all underperformed yesterday except for DJ.

 

[TJ]

Was Arians supposed to go public and throw his QB under the bus, or defend him?

 

[FrustratedFan04]

Peterson fumbling the punt was the turning point. All he has to do is let it bounce or catch it and fall down, and we have the ball at midfield trailing 17-7. Crucial turnover. Absolute killer.

That said, the way he played, Palmer probably would have thrown an INT like he did after PP gave us the ball in scoring position a few minutes later.

This is the game in a nutshell.

 

[football karma]

Ill defend BA a bit here:

had everyone else played a great game, and Palmer hadnt -- thats one thing

but late in the game when Fitz drops a first down -- I just kinda sighed and noted "its not their night"

David Johnson aside: nobody played well

 

[WildBB]

Total TEAM loss. That was evident. When one side struggles the other has to pick it up. The O very much carried the team for a good part of the year. The D showed up sporadically.
There are a couple areas of real need over on that side. WOLB, WILB and possibly CB. The OL continues to be a big area of concern. They HAVE to upgrade the interior STILL. There is also a bunch of RB's coming out if they're not sold on Ellington and CJ, but I don't see it as a priority.
I want to upgade the b/u QB position also, if our 36 yr. old starter can't make it through the entire year. Go figure ; the odds are he can't get through unscathed next yr. We shall see. At any rate the need to have better options going forward continues.
Last thing is that HB really is an intriquite part of that D. Don't think he would have changed the outcome yesterday, but he needs to be out there in big games.

 

[ajcardfan]

This is the game in a nutshell.

Yes, I truly believe the fumble by Peterson killed our chances to get back into the game. Then, he makes up for it with a big INT return, and again we have the chance to make it two scores going into halftime. I tell everyone at the party, "as long as we don't turn it over, we should get at least a FG and have a little momentum going into half.

Palmer immediately forces the ball into coverage and it's a pick.



Yeah, those two plays were the back breaker for us.

 

[Shaggy]

It starts with the QB. If the QB can't get the offense going, the D follows suit. Mental mental mental. I'm going to blame the loss on Palmer's finger!!

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Was Arians supposed to go public and throw his QB under the bus, or defend him?

He is supposed to call them like he sees them, as that is supposedly his way.

 

[Jetstream Green]

It starts with the QB. If the QB can't get the offense going, the D follows suit. Mental mental mental. I'm going to blame the loss on Palmer's finger!!

This

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He made up for it two plays later with a 70 yard INT return.

That basically was a wash.

No, damnit, no. That's a defeatist way to think. He gets paid to make BOTH those plays. One doesn't make up for the other. His fumble not only lost us great field position, it helped the snowball against us. It fueled the panthers. The int happened. The fumble happened. He shouldn't have blown that punt return. It was a terrible gamble when we shouldn't have been gambling that bad.

I know you guys love our players. I do to. And I know they're not perfect. But they don't, and shouldn't, get passes for these lame reasons. He blew it. Plain and simple. Then later he made a great play. Doesn't change the fact that he blew it earlier.

 

[Iceman]

Yes, I truly believe the fumble by Peterson killed our chances to get back into the game. Then, he makes up for it with a big INT return, and again we have the chance to make it two scores going into halftime. I tell everyone at the party, "as long as we don't turn it over, we should get at least a FG and have a little momentum going into half.

Palmer immediately forces the ball into coverage and it's a pick.



Yeah, those two plays were the back breaker for us.

THIS was were the game ended for the Cards, IMO! The only momentum shift that went the Cards way in the game. Hold the Panthers to a 3 and out and then a shank punt, which at worst puts us at the Cards 45. Not saying the Cards win that game, but that was the opportunity to make it a game. I just wonder what the game would have been like it PP decided to just let that ball hit the ground. Oh well. On to next season

 

[kerouac9]

No, damnit, no. That's a defeatist way to think. He gets paid to make BOTH those plays. One doesn't make up for the other. His fumble not only lost us great field position, it helped the snowball against us. It fueled the panthers. The int happened. The fumble happened. He shouldn't have blown that punt return. It was a terrible gamble when we shouldn't have been gambling that bad.

I know you guys love our players. I do to. And I know they're not perfect. But they don't, and shouldn't, get passes for these lame reasons. He blew it. Plain and simple. Then later he made a great play. Doesn't change the fact that he blew it earlier.

He shouldn't have fumbled that ball. But to say that we somehow would've won that game if Peterson doesn't fumble but Palmer doesn't dramatically improve his play is nonsense, too.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201601240car.htm

According the the win probability chart, the muffed punt reduced our chances of winning by less than 10%.

 

[conraddobler]

He shouldn't have fumbled that ball. But to say that we somehow would've won that game if Peterson doesn't fumble but Palmer doesn't dramatically improve his play is nonsense, too.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201601240car.htm

According the the win probability chart, the muffed punt reduced our chances of winning by less than 10%.

I'm not sure how worthwhile all those stats are but one thing sticks out to me.

When talking about something reducing our chances you're forgetting the moving base case.

I could be wrong but the way I read it on that chart our odds of winning the game when from 16.2% to 7.7% which doesn't add up so I'm guessing we only had a 15.6% chance and I'm reading it wrong somehow but it shows a 7.9% reduction there.

Trouble is we started off before that fumble with say a 15.6% chance that goes down by 7.9% so in reality it was OVER A 50% reduction in our win probability when it occurred.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He shouldn't have fumbled that ball. But to say that we somehow would've won that game if Peterson doesn't fumble but Palmer doesn't dramatically improve his play is nonsense, too.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201601240car.htm

According the the win probability chart, the muffed punt reduced our chances of winning by less than 10%.

I'm not saying that we would've won. Good god no. Too many variables. But the butterfly effect is too unpredictable to assign a 10% probability. I don't buy those metrics.

 

[Stout]

He shouldn't have fumbled that ball. But to say that we somehow would've won that game if Peterson doesn't fumble but Palmer doesn't dramatically improve his play is nonsense, too.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201601240car.htm

According the the win probability chart, the muffed punt reduced our chances of winning by less than 10%.

While I agree with your point, I have zero respect for this so-called win probability chart. Momentum was with us in a big way at that point, and Palmer had been poised in the previous drive.

 

[TJ]

While I agree with your point, I have zero respect for this so-called win probability chart. Momentum was with us in a big way at that point, and Palmer had been poised in the previous drive.

Momentum was never with us "in a big way."

 

[Cardiac]

Palmer sucked. P2 sucked as well. Hell, even Fitz dropped two passes and as someone else posted really signified it wasn't the Cards night. Veldheer had another shaky game.

Palmer didn't necessarily lose the game for us but a true elite QB keeps us in that game and gives us a chance to win. I really really really like Carson and lord knows we have seen what happens if he isn't our starting QB but the Oline and Defense needs to improve for us to win the SB with Carson as out QB.

Upgrades at ILB and OLB and Oline are required to take the next step.

 

[CtCardinals78]

Can't turn the ball over 7 times and expect to win games. On to next season.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[ajcardfan]

Momentum was never with us "in a big way."

It was just a hope. A TD at that point would've made it 17-14 and THEN maybe momentum would have tilted in our favor a bit. But, a muff and another TD for the Panthers and it was really over.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

It was just a hope. A TD at that point would've made it 17-14 and THEN maybe momentum would have tilted in our favor a bit. But, a muff and another TD for the Panthers and it was really over.

If I could un-do one play.. It would be PP's fumble.

Every ounce of optimism I had.... drained from my body at that point, and I suspect... from the players as well.