Arizona Basketball 2015-2016

[Russ Smith]

Awful analogy. That's like comparing my language and behavior at a bar versus at a church. You're trying to compare two totally different settings, cultures, and environments that have no similarities whatsoever; but also attempting to apply the standards of the more subdued environment to that of the more boisterous one.

Not sure you've spent much time on the sidelines, in practice or meetings with these coaches, but what you witnessed in that short clip is peanuts in comparison to if that was your 9-5 everyday. I've seen and heard far worse, personally.

I'm not saying I condone what Miller said, but the people who are falling out of their chairs condemning him for that exchange really have no idea what they're getting upset about.

I played sports my whole life and had coaches scream all kinds of things at me. I always felt it was ridiculous that people assume it's ok because it's sports.

And it's a very good analogy, Kaleb T is a college student who plays basketball at Arizona. Sean Miller is an employe of the University who coaches the basketball team/ He gets paid much more and it's on tv all the time but he is in essence supposed to be a teacher.

The reason people tolerate this stuff is it's always been that way and there's lots of money involved and people in general put way too much emphasis on sports in America. We all do, me included.

I had the exact same reaction to lots of the stuff Howland did at UCLA with kids you don't have to belittle and demean a kid to be a coach. Miller is supposed to be the adult.

 

[Russ Smith]

Your Bruin colors are showing. I bet you were first in line defending Coach Mora when he publicly admonished Josh Rosen in practice and through the media.

Either you're being a hater, or this is a topic beyond your level of comprehension. Reprimand from the university?? LOL!!

If Mora had screamed MFer in Rosen's face and then gone after him I'd be all over it.

And yes if you watch the video you can see the reaction of Book, he is extremely uncomfortable with what Miller did. Might have something to do with apparently having recruit Rawle Alkins sitting behind the bench and Book wondering if his NY Gauchos connections are going to matter after the head coach makes a complete idiot of himself right in front of the recruit.

Like I said above it's a warped sense of how important college sports is that allows this sort of stuff to happen. Too late to fix that when coaches are getting paid millions of dollars but you'd think the school would at least publicly come out and say they don't condone the actions of Miller.

Seriously beyond it's always been that way how can you possibly defend this as coaching? if that was your son you would be ok with his college coach doing that stuff?

 

[Lefty]

Russ, why are you so infatuated with the UofA basketball program? Your obsession got you banned from the UofA's Scout site. Maybe you should worry more about Steve Alford and the Bruins basketball team. Just saying.

 

[TJ]

So a math class and a college hoops team are the same exact environment?

To change Miller's reaction is to change the entire culture of coaching men's basketball. Until he develops a Bobby Knight type reputation, this is at worst an isolated incident, which requires no analysis and remediation. I'd still send my son to play at Arizona because I know he's an elite coach who can get the most out of him and make him a better man through his experience. You don't hear any players complain about Miller after their tenure with him.

It's a silly analogy, which holds no water in this discussion.

 

[Lefty]

Good article on the Miller/Tarc incident.
https://arizona.n.rivals.com/news/miller-i-don-t-care-what-it-s-perceived-like-regarding-rant

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ, why are you so infatuated with the UofA basketball program? Your obsession got you banned from the UofA's Scout site. Maybe you should worry more about Steve Alford and the Bruins basketball team. Just saying.

No I got banned from the scout site because one of the mods told me I had to post an apology to him, verbatim what he sent me in a PM, or I'd be banned. I refused and got banned.

And for the record what was the instance that caused that? I'm sure you forgot but I didn't. UA had just got a commit from a guard who everyone knew wanted to play PG, and yet the mod was insisting UA had recruited him as a SG, the kid knew it, and was fine with it. That kid was.... Tyler Dorsey, who of course decommitted from Arizona later on because he wanted to play PG and realized Miller wasn't going to play him there.

So the point being. I was right the whole time, and the mod who tried to get me to do that was wrong. I don't respond to bullies.

I'm not obsessed, this is an Arizona basketball thread,that happened last week and not a single person here seemed to think it was important.

note when Hurley went nuts during a game not that long ago, against Arizona and got ejected. Several UA fans went on the ASU site pointing out his poor behavior.

 

[Russ Smith]

So a math class and a college hoops team are the same exact environment?

To change Miller's reaction is to change the entire culture of coaching men's basketball. Until he develops a Bobby Knight type reputation, this is at worst an isolated incident, which requires no analysis and remediation. I'd still send my son to play at Arizona because I know he's an elite coach who can get the most out of him and make him a better man through his experience. You don't hear any players complain about Miller after their tenure with him.

It's a silly analogy, which holds no water in this discussion.

Why do you like to setup strawmen all the time? I didn't say it was the exact same environment I said Tarc is not a pro player he's a student athlete at Arizona and should be treated as such. Miller is an employee of the school, just like a teacher is. If a teacher did that to a student they would be disciplined. Miller gets away with it because everyone has this out of whack perception of how important sports is.

It's the same reason UA fans didn't bat an eye when the school admitted PJC knowing full well he'd been expelled from HS for being caught cheating 3 times at the school. They didn't care because they thought he was good and so what kids cheat. Now if their own kid were caught cheating 3 times in I sort of doubt if those same UA fans would tell their son it was ok.

It's not a silly analogy you just don't want to answer the question, why is that behavior acceptable? Aside from coaches always act that way what makes it ok?

You have the mistaken notion that sort of behavior is helping Miller coach his team. UA wins because they have lots of talent, not because Miller screams obscenities at his kids.

 

[Russ Smith]

Good article on the Miller/Tarc incident.
https://arizona.n.rivals.com/news/miller-i-don-t-care-what-it-s-perceived-like-regarding-rant

Yes very good. Essentially Sean Miller blamed the media for the incident saying they put a mic there and tried to get him fired,.

Its a televised game, every televised game has mics all over the place that pick up what coaches say. He's acting like they hid a mic and set him up. Even the guy who wrote that article said he didnt' agree with that comment from Miller

 

[TJ]

Why do you like to setup strawmen all the time? I didn't say it was the exact same environment I said Tarc is not a pro player he's a student athlete at Arizona and should be treated as such. Miller is an employee of the school, just like a teacher is. If a teacher did that to a student they would be disciplined. Miller gets away with it because everyone has this out of whack perception of how important sports is.

It's the same reason UA fans didn't bat an eye when the school admitted PJC knowing full well he'd been expelled from HS for being caught cheating 3 times at the school. They didn't care because they thought he was good and so what kids cheat. Now if their own kid were caught cheating 3 times in I sort of doubt if those same UA fans would tell their son it was ok.

It's not a silly analogy you just don't want to answer the question, why is that behavior acceptable? Aside from coaches always act that way what makes it ok?

You have the mistaken notion that sort of behavior is helping Miller coach his team. UA wins because they have lots of talent, not because Miller screams obscenities at his kids.

So what does PJC have to do with the price of tea in China, or are you just lumping everything together to formulate one global anti-Arizona argument? It makes you look petty.

Simply put: this isn't first-grade soccer. If you can't handle coaches getting in your face, you shouldn't play college basketball, especially for a top-tier coach in Sean Miller.

BTW---you were banned from Scout for trolling, but seem to have just taken that behavior over here.

 

[Russ Smith]

So what does PJC have to do with the price of tea in China, or are you just lumping everything together to formulate one global anti-Arizona argument? It makes you look petty.

Simply put: this isn't first-grade soccer. If you can't handle coaches getting in your face, you shouldn't play college basketball, especially for a top-tier coach in Sean Miller.

BTW---you were banned from Scout for trolling, but seem to have just taken that behavior over here.

It's an example of my point that people make excuses for things in sports that they don't in the real world. Like Miller's behavior or PJC, 2 recent examples.

And no I was not banned for trolling. I was banned because I said that 97cats was incorrect in saying that Tyler Dorsey knew he wasn't going to play PG at Arizona and committed anyways. And that even Josh Gershon had corrected him and made it clear that EVERYONE that recruited Dorsey was telling him they would give him a chance at PG because they knew it was going to take that to get him to commit. Everyone had the same plan, get him to commit and then convince him his future wasn't at PG.

97cats said I was lying, that Dorsey knew, and that Gershon hadn't said any such thing. Of course I didn't pay for the premium site, I was on the free site. Gershon's comments had been cut and pasted onto the BRO premium site because we were having the same debate on that board. But 97cats didn't know that, knew I wasn't on the UA premium site, so he assumed he could call my bluff and get me to post the apology that he literally wrote out, and PMed to me.

I responded and told him I don't respond well to bullies so no I won't post your apology, you are wrong, and UA will have the same issue with Dorsey that anybody else would have if they don't play him at PG. he banned me, and a few months later Dorsey decommitted because he wanted to play PG and UA and Justin Simon were making it clear they weren't going to play him there. Pretty ironic given Simon isn't even a G let alone a PG.

I wasn't trolling at all. The definition of trolling involves posting something that's not true, that you don't believe to be true, just to get a reaction from people. I was 100% right, I knew exactly what I was talking about with Dorsey and was proven to be correct. I posted the exact argument here at the time and was told I was wrong.


I actually have a pretty good track record at such predictions, nailed Dorsey, nailed Josiah Turner(against heavy opposition here).

But I do realize you know far more about it than I do, like when you answered my question about Pitts by telling us he was going to play against Stanford. Really cleared that story up.

 

[TJ]

That bully, Tom Izzo. Hopefully, Michigan State publicly reprimands him

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:14686875&ex_cid=espnfb

 

[Russ Smith]

That bully, Tom Izzo. Hopefully, Michigan State publicly reprimands him

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:14686875&ex_cid=espnfb

Let me see if I can do this right I'm not as good at strawman stuff as you.

So you're saying those 2 situations are IDENTICAL? I mean I didn't hear Izzo call him a MFer.

I don't see Izzo on the floor on all 4's screaming at someone or pointing a finger in his face telling him if you talk back to me again I'll never put you into the game.

Oh I forgot I'm supposed to accuse you of trolling and suggest you don't understand how bigtime sports works.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I like how Russ still naively holds on to the amateurism charade.

 

[Russ Smith]

I like how Russ still naively holds on to the amateurism charade.

Oh I have no doubt all these kids get money and other things. But he's not a professional player he's a student at U of A. In fact he's probably the best example on your team of a student athlete. He's also near as I know the only kid on the team that has been seeing a sports psychologist to deal with stress for over a year, something Miller was quite happy to take partial credit for when the story came out last year.

It's just childish behavior by Miller.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised people defend it though it's where the fanatic in sports fans comes from. People will defend any sort of behavior if the coach wins. UCLA fans did it with Howland for years. IU fans did it for decades with Bob Knight. Woody Hayes, Frank Kush etc all of them.

When I was in highschool I went to a different summer camp every year. First year Santa Clara, Carroll Williams and Dick Davey, they were both pretty loud but nothing too bad. Next year San Jose State, Bill Berry terrific coach, coached the defense at Michigan St when Magic and Kelser were there, longtime NBA assistant. Bill Berry was so bad that they literally closed the camp a day early and refunded money due to all the complaints from parents about Berry's language and behavior. No surprise to me several years later when the SJSU basketball team quit and they had to get walkons (Johnny Johnson) to finish out the season before firing Berry. And the year I was there his son Ricky was there so he was screaming at all of us. Last year was Dick DiBiaso the coach at Stanford, his son Brian was there, I don't think the guy ever said anything worse than darn it. He was pretty loud and intense but managed to do it without going over the top.

So I've been around it I'm not at all naive but the older I get the more amazed I am that people still defend it.

Nobody is saying Sean Miller should be fired, but he should be reprimanded by his bosses. There is a line that he crossed.

 

[GatorAZ]

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[TJ]

I actually have a pretty good track record at such predictions, nailed Dorsey, nailed Josiah Turner(against heavy opposition here).

But I do realize you know far more about it than I do, like when you answered my question about Pitts by telling us he was going to play against Stanford. Really cleared that story up.

Good for you and your predictions. Your cookies are in the mail.

Frankly, I don't care about who accurately predicts outcomes on message boards, and those who boast about it come off as petty. I also said I THINK he comes back for Stanford based on what I heard. Huge difference from saying it was certain.

As of today, four days removed from the UO game, nobody is demeaning Sean Miller and Zeus except for you and other Bruin fans. And the Izzo situation as you can see, really normalizes the situation even more. The fact that this has to be explained to you multiple times either speaks to your lack of understanding of the dyad between coaches and players and/or are simply here to troll UofA fans.

You've wagged your finger enough at Sean Miller, and it's clear you won't change your stance, so I'm not going to entertain this discussion with you any further. Why don't you go lecture Michigan State about Izzo's poor behavior, or ASU about Hurley getting ill-timed technicals by taking it too far with refs?

 

[Russ Smith]

Good for you and your predictions. Your cookies are in the mail.

Frankly, I don't care about who accurately predicts outcomes on message boards, and those who boast about it come off as petty. I also said I THINK he comes back for Stanford based on what I heard. Huge difference from saying it was certain.

As of today, four days removed from the UO game, nobody is demeaning Sean Miller and Zeus except for you and other Bruin fans. And the Izzo situation as you can see, really normalizes the situation even more. The fact that this has to be explained to you multiple times either speaks to your lack of understanding of the dyad between coaches and players and/or are simply here to troll UofA fans.

You've wagged your finger enough at Sean Miller, and it's clear you won't change your stance, so I'm not going to entertain this discussion with you any further. Why don't you go lecture Michigan State about Izzo's poor behavior, or ASU about Hurley getting ill-timed technicals by taking it too far with refs?

Izzo's dad passed away earlier that week, that's why he was so emotional in that game. After the game the players gave him the game ball, and at the presser he apologized for his over the top emotions during the game. He didn't say I don't have any regrets, people put a mic in my pocket and are trying to get me fired. He said I was extremely emotional all week, I went too far and I regret it.

Even if the situations were identical it doesn't mean it's ok. Just because other people do something doesn't make it right.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The only people who truly think he should be publicly reprimanded are from Westwood and Tempe. "OMG!! Miller called a 22 year-old man a motherf**ker!! Call the police!! The humanity."

Please.....

If anyone should be publicly reprimanded, it's Zeus. It's bad enough when he plays like trash, but when it's because of not trying, that's preposterous. Add to the fact that he talked back at Miller, and Zeus basically begged Miller to light him up. This hardly deserves any attention from anyone. Period.

Miller even mentioned tonight that he did not regret laying into Zeus and subsequently the rest of the team the way he did after the Oregon game. Look, the team had lost two in a row and the home winning streak snapped. The team had hit rock bottom. Should Miller coddle his team instead?

Man's game.

Dude I'm a uofa fan and your response is totally out to lunch. These are 17-23 year olds. Those are not men. If I saw a coach calling my son a mfer that coach would have to have someone pull me off him. These are players playing a game. They aren't professionals. This is collegiate athletics. Coach your guys hard, yes. Call them mfers, sorry that's bush league. I'm a miller fan. But I'll bet that comes back to bite him with a recruit or two, or their parents.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

you don't have to belittle and demean a kid to be a coach. Miller is supposed to be the adult.

Couldn't agree more. If this was pros, okay. But this is COLLEGE. That's school. That's amateur.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

To change Miller's reaction is to change the entire culture of coaching men's basketball..

So your argument is that berating kids is inherent to college basketball!!!???! That's flat out dumb. I can't believe you're continuing to argue this.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I like how Russ still naively holds on to the amateurism charade.

Wow, Mao, I usually look to you as a definite zona homer but a reasonable voice on here. But you too with this? You'd be okay with a coach cursing out your son in that manner? Wow.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And the Izzo situation as you can see, really normalizes the situation even more. ?

Are you really so obtuse as to fail to recognize that the very scenario you are bringing up not only fails to "normalize the situation" but argues against it? If it were normal it wouldn't be news. It wouldn't be on YouTube. You can find it BECAUSE it is NOT normal or acceptable behavior.

 

[TJ]

So your argument is that berating kids is inherent to college basketball!!!???! That's flat out dumb. I can't believe you're continuing to argue this.

So you think men's college basketball coaches are inherently friendly and always cordial with their players?

Please, enlighten me with this newfound information.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[TJ]

Are you really so obtuse as to fail to recognize that the very scenario you are bringing up not only fails to "normalize the situation" but argues against it? If it were normal it wouldn't be news. It wouldn't be on YouTube. You can find it BECAUSE it is NOT normal or acceptable behavior.

By the way, love how your initial comments chastising a behavioral issue include the words "dumb" and "obtuse" directed at me. Not hypocritical, at all.

Please don't claim yourself to be a UofA fan and come at me like that. That's absurd, particularly since I never once provoked you. Hope your response is a little more subdued and includes an apology.

If you wish to engage in a discussion with me about this, someone who has extensive knowledge and experience in this matter, then I'm more than willing to do so.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So you think men's college basketball coaches are inherently friendly and always cordial with their players?

Please, enlighten me with this newfound information.

You must be registered for see images attach

Sorry but that's a really lame argument. Because I don't think a coach should behave like an ******* I think they can't be tough? Lame argument bud.

At the end of the day let me ask you this:

Did millers actions, and these pictures have a net positive or net negative impact on the program? That's all that matters.