Arizona Basketball 2015-2016

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

By the way, love how your initial comments chastising a behavioral issue include the words "dumb" and "obtuse" directed at me. Not hypocritical, at all.

Please don't claim yourself to be a UofA fan and come at me like that. That's absurd, particularly since I never once provoked you. Hope your response is a little more subdued and includes an apology.

If you wish to engage in a discussion with me about this, someone who has extensive knowledge and experience in this matter, then I'm more than willing to do so.

Point taken. Apologize for the negativity. Just astounded that someone could condone that type of treatment of youngsters. Seems like wildcat blinders and nothing more.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Wow, Mao, I usually look to you as a definite zona homer but a reasonable voice on here. But you too with this? You'd be okay with a coach cursing out your son in that manner? Wow.

I never defended Miller's actions, over the line for sure but it's fairly common in college athletics and I'm not naive and romantic about about the alleged "amateurism" of college basketball and football players. These guys are basically semi-pro's even without getting directly paid.*

* and for the record I think they should be compensated for anything they are required to do outside of the allotted practice hours, games, and studies.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Did millers actions, and these pictures have a net positive or net negative impact on the program? That's all that matters.

If he wins it won't matter. Bobby Knight never became an embarrassment to Indiana until he was getting 8 seeds and losing on the first weekend of the Tournament every year.

 

[Dback Jon]

If he wins it won't matter. Bobby Knight never became an embarrassment to Indiana until he was getting 8 seeds and losing on the first weekend of the Tournament every year.

Bobby Knight coached in a far different era - no phones everywhere, no internet, social media, games rarely televised.

His act would not fly today - it barely flew back then.



Even Woody Hayes and Frank Kush couldn't survive once one of their abusive actions was caught on tape.

 

[TJ]

Point taken. Apologize for the negativity. Just astounded that someone could condone that type of treatment of youngsters. Seems like wildcat blinders and nothing more.

If you go back and reread my posts, I specifically mentioned that I do not condone the behavior, but as someone who's been immersed in this vary topic for many years, I'm astounded that there are people who are getting up-in-arms about the fact that coaches get in players' faces and say some pretty crass things. On a scale from 1-10, the Miller situation is about a 4, and I would venture to guess that this sort of language is pretty common at Wildcat practices, but Miller's reputation with former Xavier and Arizona players has always been positive, so I'm not concerned that this is a major issue.

With that said, because I know this happens frequently in college, pro, and even high school sports (I'm currently working with a scholarship eligible baseball player whose HS coach is a certifiable nut job), it doesn't phase me and I do not respond emotionally, because I know this is the lay of the land. Frankly, it shouldn't phase others, either. Now, when it becomes truly reprehensible and unacceptable is when it's pathological and/or intense, like Bobby Knight or Mike Rice.

I venture to guess that based on Zeus's and Miller's 4+ year relationship, they discussed and processed the situation together behind closed doors. After that, there's no need to discuss it with the media or anyone else. Until Miller takes it to the next level, his reputation deserves to remain as one of the most respected, more influential coaches in the Nation.

 

[Russ Smith]

If he wins it won't matter. Bobby Knight never became an embarrassment to Indiana until he was getting 8 seeds and losing on the first weekend of the Tournament every year.

not true at all.

Knight had been complained about for years but when Neil Reed said he choked me in practice, and Knight denied it, then it became big news. Then we had video that clearly showed Knight grab him by the throat. IU acted immediately they publicly reprimanded Knight ,suspended him and put him on zero tolerance.

Later that year he grabbed a kid during practice, the kid reported it and the President of the University demanded his resignation.

If Neil Reed had been choked 10 years earlier and there was video, Knight would have left IU 10 years earlier.

Miller has obviously not gone anywhere near that far. Nobody is saying fire him, except him, just he should apologize and if he refuses, he should be reprimanded by Arizona. Clearly neither is going to happen.

 

[Russ Smith]

If you go back and reread my posts, I specifically mentioned that I do not condone the behavior, but as someone who's been immersed in this vary topic for many years, I'm astounded that there are people who are getting up-in-arms about the fact that coaches get in players' faces and say some pretty crass things. On a scale from 1-10, the Miller situation is about a 4, and I would venture to guess that this sort of language is pretty common at Wildcat practices, but Miller's reputation with former Xavier and Arizona players has always been positive, so I'm not concerned that this is a major issue.

With that said, because I know this happens frequently in college, pro, and even high school sports (I'm currently working with a scholarship eligible baseball player whose HS coach is a certifiable nut job), it doesn't phase me and I do not respond emotionally, because I know this is the lay of the land. Frankly, it shouldn't phase others, either. Now, when it becomes truly reprehensible and unacceptable is when it's pathological and/or intense, like Bobby Knight or Mike Rice.

I venture to guess that based on Zeus's and Miller's 4+ year relationship, they discussed and processed the situation together behind closed doors. After that, there's no need to discuss it with the media or anyone else. Until Miller takes it to the next level, his reputation deserves to remain as one of the most respected, more influential coaches in the Nation.

Yep and they trust Tarc agreed with it so much that they didn't make him available to the media after the game.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If he wins it won't matter. Bobby Knight never became an embarrassment to Indiana until he was getting 8 seeds and losing on the first weekend of the Tournament every year.

He might not have been a big enough embarrassment to get canned but that doesn't change public perception. I thought he was an ass way before the 8 seeds. And there's no way I would've entrusted a son to him. And I guarantee, though this episode might not taint miller over the long run, I won't be surprised if a recruit or two doesn't see this and rethink coming, or a parent, now it in the future. And it does provide opposition ammunition to use against Arizona. If I had a child being heavily recruited and someone showed me these pictures I'd say "no way" to miller. I know I'm not everybody, likely not even the majority, but I guarantee you I represent a substantial population of people in my thoughts on this. And what's the alternative? Not yelling mfer at a kid? Is that rally going cause miller not to lose? No. It's just unnecessary and negative when it needn't be. Get on your players, yes. Demean and humiliate them? Unnecessary in the scope of ANYTHING.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Bobby Knight coached in a far different era - no phones everywhere, no internet, social media, games rarely televised.

His act would not fly today - it barely flew back then.



Even Woody Hayes and Frank Kush couldn't survive once one of their abusive actions was caught on tape.

Exactly, you guys are using these types of coaches as examples if norms, but the only reason we know of these circumstances is because they were deemed unacceptable.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If you go back and reread my posts, I specifically mentioned that I do not condone the behavior, but as someone who's been immersed in this vary topic for many years, I'm astounded that there are people who are getting up-in-arms about the fact that coaches get in players' faces and say some pretty crass things. On a scale from 1-10, the Miller situation is about a 4, and I would venture to guess that this sort of language is pretty common at Wildcat practices, but Miller's reputation with former Xavier and Arizona players has always been positive, so I'm not concerned that this is a major issue.

With that said, because I know this happens frequently in college, pro, and even high school sports (I'm currently working with a scholarship eligible baseball player whose HS coach is a certifiable nut job), it doesn't phase me and I do not respond emotionally, because I know this is the lay of the land. Frankly, it shouldn't phase others, either. Now, when it becomes truly reprehensible and unacceptable is when it's pathological and/or intense, like Bobby Knight or Mike Rice.

I venture to guess that based on Zeus's and Miller's 4+ year relationship, they discussed and processed the situation together behind closed doors. After that, there's no need to discuss it with the media or anyone else. Until Miller takes it to the next level, his reputation deserves to remain as one of the most respected, more influential coaches in the Nation.

To say it doesn't phase you is to condone it. If no raises the alarm to these allegedly "normal" practices is to say that it's okay. To not get "emotional" means you don't care as long as he wins. Sorry, I can't accept your answers. It's deciding to turn a blind eye because others do it. This is how evil is allowed to grow and live. Now I'm not calling miller evil. But his action, in this instance was a sliver of evil. And to turn a blind eye to it is to allow it to repeat, and even grow.

 

[TJ]

To say it doesn't phase you is to condone it. If no raises the alarm to these allegedly "normal" practices is to say that it's okay. To not get "emotional" means you don't care as long as he wins. Sorry, I can't accept your answers. It's deciding to turn a blind eye because others do it. This is how evil is allowed to grow and live. Now I'm not calling miller evil. But his action, in this instance was a sliver of evil. And to turn a blind eye to it is to allow it to repeat, and even grow.

You're putting words in my mouth. Take what Im saying to you at face value and don't try to read between the lines because there's nothing there.

To me, it sounds like you're making it more than what it is. Statements like "sliver of evil" "allowing it to repeat" and "even grow" indicate you think this is an ongoing issue that will impact his future. It simply isn't the case. He's not going to lose recruits nor is his job going to be compromised. Frankly, this is making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You're putting words in my mouth. Take what Im saying to you at face value and don't try to read between the lines because there's nothing there.

To me, it sounds like you're making it more than what it is. Statements like "sliver of evil" "allowing it to repeat" and "even grow" indicate you think this is an ongoing issue that will impact his future. It simply isn't the case. He's not going to lose recruits nor is his job going to be compromised. Frankly, this is making a mountain out of a molehill.

Au contrere I think you're trying brush ugly and embarrassing under the rug. I'm a fan of Arizona basketball. But it doesn't mean everyone gets a free pass. And neither of us know if he will or won't lose recruits. It's conjecture on both out parts. But the mere fact that we can disagree on this paints your position as likely inaccurate as there are likely recruits and parents that come out on both sides of this as well. A concept you clearly refuse to believe.

And I'm curious, where am I putting words in your mouth? You argued that millers actions were acceptable because others do them and it's the "norm." You don't believe he should be reprimanded, which means his actions are okay in your mind. Or do you believe that people that break rules, whether they be social constructs or legally codified, should not be told when their actions are wrong? I'm seriously asking here because it seems you want to say you don't condone his actions but no one should tell him they were inappropriate. And I have a VERYA DIFFICULT time reconciling those two concepts.

 

[Russ Smith]

You're putting words in my mouth. Take what Im saying to you at face value and don't try to read between the lines because there's nothing there.

To me, it sounds like you're making it more than what it is. Statements like "sliver of evil" "allowing it to repeat" and "even grow" indicate you think this is an ongoing issue that will impact his future. It simply isn't the case. He's not going to lose recruits nor is his job going to be compromised. Frankly, this is making a mountain out of a molehill.

If it's not an ongoing issue why did Gabe york say it happens all the time in practice?

 

[GatorAZ]

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

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Okay I'm done.

 

[Catlover]

I don't want to pile on but I was hoping for a better response from Sean. I don't think it was a huge deal, certainly nothing like Bobby Knight in his heyday, but I do think he crossed a line. Not far enough for a reprimand or suspension but worthy of an acknowledgement that in the heat of the moment he went a little too far.

 

[TJ]

Au contrere I think you're trying brush ugly and embarrassing under the rug. I'm a fan of Arizona basketball. But it doesn't mean everyone gets a free pass. And neither of us know if he will or won't lose recruits. It's conjecture on both out parts. But the mere fact that we can disagree on this paints your position as likely inaccurate as there are likely recruits and parents that come out on both sides of this as well. A concept you clearly refuse to believe.



And I'm curious, where am I putting words in your mouth? You argued that millers actions were acceptable because others do them and it's the "norm." You don't believe he should be reprimanded, which means his actions are okay in your mind. Or do you believe that people that break rules, whether they be social constructs or legally codified, should not be told when their actions are wrong? I'm seriously asking here because it seems you want to say you don't condone his actions but no one should tell him they were inappropriate. And I have a VERYA DIFFICULT time reconciling those two concepts.

To start, you inserted the "as long as he wins" statement. I'm not shallow.

For argument's sake--what do you think his punishment should be?

Look, it's clear your position is made up despite everything I've explained to you from a professional standpoint. if you want to vilify Sean Miller for this, go right ahead. That's your right. But I can tell you that your opinion of this being some reprehensible, dangerous action, is that of the minority in the coaching circle at this level. If you were to reprimand all of the coaches who curse at or in front of student-athletes, you'd be left with very few coaches.

 

[Catlover]

I would add that even though I thought he went a little too far, as a parent I wouldn't hesitate to send my child to be coached by this man (if my child wasn't pushing 40). I think Miller is a man of integrity and I'm not at all concerned by his language or his intensity. His coaching style might not work with everyone but I suspect very few potential recruits will be shocked by his demeanor, they've heard and seen it many times before. I'm sure some will try to use it against him in recruiting and might even have a little success doing so but it won't shape his legacy at Arizona.

 

[GatorAZ]

How are we going to replace Rhino?

 

[TJ]

How are we going to replace Rhino?

What stinks is he's only here for one year, and that's the transition year. I don't think we'll be able to replace his interior presence; however, I think we'll have upgraded significantly everywhere else. We'll also still have a tall front court. Dusan is 7', Markk 6'10", Comanche 6'10", Smith 6'8"

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

To start, you inserted the "as long as he wins" statement. I'm not shallow.

For argument's sake--what do you think his punishment should be?

Look, it's clear your position is made up despite everything I've explained to you from a professional standpoint. if you want to vilify Sean Miller for this, go right ahead. That's your right. But I can tell you that your opinion of this being some reprehensible, dangerous action, is that of the minority in the coaching circle at this level. If you were to reprimand all of the coaches who curse at or in front of student-athletes, you'd be left with very few coaches.

When did "reprimand" become synonymous with "fire?"

I would agree with cat. He should've publicly apologized for going to far. In the absence of such apology the school should have made a public statements that such actions are not okay and not representative of the institution.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I would add that even though I thought he went a little too far, as a parent I wouldn't hesitate to send my child to be coached by this man (if my child wasn't pushing 40). I think Miller is a man of integrity and I'm not at all concerned by his language or his intensity. His coaching style might not work with everyone but I suspect very few potential recruits will be shocked by his demeanor, they've heard and seen it many times before. I'm sure some will try to use it against him in recruiting and might even have a little success doing so but it won't shape his legacy at Arizona.

I'm not necessarily questioning his integrity, because I know nothing concrete about that. But I'm curious how you know he's a man of integrity? He's a basketball coach. That's what we know. And to be frank that cast doubt on his (and IMO ALL major coaches) integrity. So again, not arguing he lacks integrity, but how do we know he's a man of integrity?

Also I played sports from very little through college (albeit div III football). The tough coach is not a foreign concept to me. Lord knows I wasn't a perfect player in any sport at any level. But even my toughest coaches (and my high school and college coaches were definitely of the "old school" variety) never called me mfer or had to degrade themselves (or players) with that kind of language. And I'm no Puritan either. Cursing generally doesn't affect me negatively. But directed at kids, even big talented kids verging on adulthood, offends me greatly. Particularly in such a public and degrading manner.

 

[Catlover]

I'm not necessarily questioning his integrity, because I know nothing concrete about that. But I'm curious how you know he's a man of integrity? He's a basketball coach. That's what we know. And to be frank that cast doubt on his (and IMO ALL major coaches) integrity. So again, not arguing he lacks integrity, but how do we know he's a man of integrity?

I don't "know" that's why I qualified my statement. I've never met him, everything I know about him is second hand or even further removed. I've met Lute several times. I hold him in very high regard and he's spoken well of Sean in the past (it's been awhile though). I've watched Miller on the sidelines. I've watched him interact with his players and staff and I've watched a lot of interviews. I've always come away impressed despite disliking a few of the things he's said and done. But I have been fooled by the PR machine before.

 

[carey]

Any thoughts on where the team is currently? They shot 45 FTs against UCLA's 16 last night. That's a bit crazy.

 

[TJ]

Any thoughts on where the team is currently? They shot 45 FTs against UCLA's 16 last night. That's a bit crazy.

Zona is a team that is not your typical Miller coached team. This team does not have any elite defenders, but has scorers. The effort on defense is improving, but it's simply that the talent level isn't there, especially when comparing the two previous years' teams.

I still maintain that this is a Sweet 16 team. How Miller is 0.5 games away from the top spot in the conference is a small miracle and a testament to how good of a coach he is.