Arizona Cardinals GM Steve Keim cited for DUI on July 4

[Solar7]

My vitriol didn't start until I heard about the first DUI conviction. Until then, all I was saying was this was a bad look. But the second I heard this wasn't his first offense, you're damn right I started in on him and for good reason. You get one of those and DON'T change your behavior and put yourself and other's lives at risk and you're a piece of crap who only cares about yourself as far as I'm concerned... and apparently don't care much about yourself either. And you sure as hell can't be a leader of men after two of those, IMO. At least not until you get your crap together.

We fundamentally disagree about what it's like to be 21 years old and well into your 40s. Two different people - and from what I saw with Keim, he didn't drive around like a crazy unfettered drunk, he didn't stagger out of his car, he didn't slur his words, he didn't lie about himself... he got caught skirting the rules.

You and I aren't going to agree on this "leader of men" stuff, because some "leaders of men" have been outright garbage people.

and wouldn't take the field sobriety test?

It's the same thing as the breathalyzer. You're letting a cop's subjective opinion take effect here, yes.

Anyone who could shirk the rules to not get punished would do the same thing, regardless of the law. Unless you follow every law to the T, I'm not following here. Never try to get out of a parking ticket?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Floyd was a repeat offender and caught comatose at the wheel in the middle of an intersection.

Yes DUI is bad and there needs to be consequences but by any measure Floyd's case was way way worse

still believe this now that it's been revealed that Keim is a repeat offender?

 

[Shane]

Did threads get merged? Did I miss something?

For all of the vitriol here, Keim was barely doing anything wrong, was cooperative and pleasant, and didn't pound his fist or demand he be treated special. A LOT of stones thrown in glass houses here, again - unless I walked into a merged thread, since I knew this was locked today at some point before I got home.

Yea drunk is drunk and wrong is wrong...

 

[daves]

and wouldn't take the field sobriety test?

Ask your middle brother about that. I think any attorney familiar with DUI law would tell you that it is NEVER to your benefit to take the tests. (And Keim DID take some, but it looked as though he refused the ones that could've been affected by a bad knee.)

There has probably never in history been a case where a cop has said, "You know what, I pulled you over because I thought you were DUI, but you did great on the tests so I guess I was wrong - you're free to go!"

I've been pulled over multiple times (long ago, in Georgia), told that I had been "swerving all over the road," and "failed all the field sobriety tests" - then blew a 0.0 since I had not been drinking. I'll tell you some even crazier stories some time.

...dave

 

[Cheesebeef]

We fundamentally disagree about what it's like to be 21 years old and well into your 40s. Two different people - and from what I saw with Keim, he didn't drive around like a crazy unfettered drunk, he didn't stagger out of his car, he didn't slur his words, he didn't lie about himself... he got caught skirting the rules.

You're right. At age 40 YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE LEARNED FROM YOUR STUPID YOUNG MISTAKES. You're not supposed to be "skirting the rules" because you should have learned how to live by them after screwing up 20 years ago.

And I take major issue with the idea of "skirting the rules". Good lord man. Look, based on your earlier admissions of the way you drink and the inability to just go to a bar and watch a game and eat and what not, I say this not to insult but with your best interests at heart. I PRAY you get some serious help because the rationalizations you make for drinking and driving and drinking in general lead me to believe you have a MAJOR problem and I hope you wake up and deal with that before you do serious damage to yourself or someone else. Your attitude towards Keim here leads me to believe that's a possibility and that would be a damn shame.

You and I aren't going to agree on this "leader of men" stuff, because some "leaders of men" have been outright garbage people.

It's the same thing as the breathalyzer. You're letting a cop's subjective opinion take effect here, yes.

Anyone who could shirk the rules to not get punished would do the same thing, regardless of the law. Unless you follow every law to the T, I'm not following here. Never try to get out of a parking ticket?[/QUOTE]

Are you serious? You're going to compare getting a DUI to a parking ticket? Are you wasted right now?

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm a heavy drinker - simple as that. I honestly don't get how "don't drink" is an option in a lot of social situations that literally revolve around drinking. It's a character flaw. But when I have an important after-work client meeting, I need to drink or be the uncomfortable guy not interacting. When everyone is going to sit at the bar for three hours to watch the game, it's either I drink or don't go, because you can't just take up a barstool drinking diet soda when you're costing the bartender money.

Two caveats - I live in Las Vegas, where things are always dialed up to 11, and I also get "reliable" transportation, although that may sometimes be in the form of someone that had 2-3 drinks instead of someone stone cold sober.

what you're describing isn't heavy drinking dude. Nor is it a character flaw. You're describing alcoholism.

Please get up help before your hurt yourself or someone else.

 

[Solar7]

Yea drunk is drunk and wrong is wrong...

I honestly don't disagree with you, but even as an officer, you must recognize that there are varying degrees of wrong.

This story became "Keim was obliterated, pretended to be someone else, and invoked the name of a dead officer" until we realized it was your standard suburbia stop. Not saying Keim is right here, but he's not the devil.

He is wrong and should be prosecuted. He should have chosen to get a ride.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I honestly don't disagree with you, but even as an officer, you must recognize that there are varying degrees of wrong.

This story became "Keim was obliterated, pretended to be someone else, and invoked the name of a dead officer" until we realized it was your standard suburbia stop. Not saying Keim is right here, but he's not the devil.

He is wrong and should be prosecuted. He should have chosen to get a ride.

you're totally distorting the argument. For the most part, when the story broke, the conversation mostly was "this is a bad look and he needs to be punished." Then, there was stuff that came out that he lied and people said it was a REALLY bad look and started wondering just how trashed he was. Then it came out this was his SECOND DUI and that's when knives came out and rightly so, IMO.

You're acting like this wasn't his second offense. That's a back-breaker for most people. But it doesn't fit your narrative, so why bring it up?

 

[Solar7]

You're right. At age 40 YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE LEARNED FROM YOUR STUPID YOUNG MISTAKES. You're not supposed to be "skirting the rules" because you should have learned how to live by them after screwing up 20 years ago.

And I take major issue with the idea of "skirting the rules". Good lord man. Look, based on your earlier admissions of the way you drink and the inability to just go to a bar and watch a game and eat and what not, I say this not to insult but with your best interests at heart. I PRAY you get some serious help because the rationalizations you make for drinking and driving and drinking in general lead me to believe you have a MAJOR problem and I hope you wake up and deal with that before you do serious damage to yourself or someone else. Your attitude towards Keim here leads me to believe that's a possibility and that would be a damn shame.



It's the same thing as the breathalyzer. You're letting a cop's subjective opinion take effect here, yes.

Anyone who could shirk the rules to not get punished would do the same thing, regardless of the law. Unless you follow every law to the T, I'm not following here. Never try to get out of a parking ticket?

Are you serious? You're going to compare getting a DUI to a parking ticket? Are you wasted right now?[/QUOTE]

I'm just being realistic here. As I've mentioned, I have taken to heart the issues that my friends ran into, and I make it a very important part of my life to use Uber or other services to get home safe. The bars that I go to are in walking distance of my house, and I take a ride any time there's going to be drinking outside of an arrangement where I know I'll be safe. I'm cognizant that I have a problem, but there is also a legal drinking limit. It's simply not zero tolerance, and until it is, I'm not going to demonize someone who went a drink or two overboard like they're someone driving with seven shots down and an open container in the car, even though I'll admit they should have been more responsible.

As far as the DUI to parking ticket thing, let's just compare it to speeding. You shouldn't be going 75 in a 55. It's pretty dangerous. But it's different than going 100 in a 55. It's just a matter of scale.

 

[Solar7]

you're totally distorting the argument. For the most part, when the story broke, the conversation mostly was "this is a bad look and he needs to be punished." Then, there was stuff that came out that he lied and people said it was a REALLY bad look and started wondering just how trashed he was. Then it came out this was his SECOND DUI and that's when knives came out and rightly so, IMO.

You're acting like this wasn't his second offense. That's a back-breaker for most people. But it doesn't fit your narrative, so why bring it up?

It's a DUI 20+ years ago. I'm so drastically different a person than I was 10 years ago that I can't fathom it. A stupid college kid getting a DUI binge drinking at a party is different than the guy who though he could have one more beer and be under the legal limit.

Again, it comes down to the legal limit. Why have a legal limit if it's inconsistent among people? Why not just pure zero tolerance?

 

[Solar7]

@cheesebeef

I need to go to bed for work in the morning, and we're not going to agree here. I kinda poured my heart out the other night writing that stuff, but I try to not let my personal struggles affect my perspective of how the laws, courts, and public opinion should work. I exposed my own struggles because I've been posting here since long before I ever even had my first beer, and I have some trust in a lot of you.

I know this is a passionate argument that draws in a lot of heartache and struggle for many. Maybe I should step away from trying to argue this, and I'm sorry to anyone I've offended with my perspective. It's emotional for me too, but from another side.

So, apologies, I think your heart is definitely in the right place. I just trend toward forgiveness in most cases. Hope we can clear the air somewhere down the line.

 

[ajcardfan]

@cheesebeef

I need to go to bed for work in the morning, and we're not going to agree here. I kinda poured my heart out the other night writing that stuff, but I try to not let my personal struggles affect my perspective of how the laws, courts, and public opinion should work. I exposed my own struggles because I've been posting here since long before I ever even had my first beer, and I have some trust in a lot of you.

I know this is a passionate argument that draws in a lot of heartache and struggle for many. Maybe I should step away from trying to argue this, and I'm sorry to anyone I've offended with my perspective. It's emotional for me too, but from another side.

So, apologies, I think your heart is definitely in the right place. I just trend toward forgiveness in most cases. Hope we can clear the air somewhere down the line.

I for one, am impressed how honest you were. The fact you came straight out about your heavy drinking means it has been something you have really thought about a lot. So, i am going to share something someone told me long ago:

"Normal drinkers NEVER wonder if they drink too much."

And, you are describing the alcoholic lifestyle very well. Its not that you will get into trouble every time you drink, but deinking will cause most of your troubles.

Please reach out beyond this message board and change your lifestyle. I promise you wont regret it.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

WOW! He is due his day in court. Let's see how it plays out. You are acting like the judge jury and executioner. It has everything to do with court. Let them decide, your opinion does not make him guilty. If he is guilty, it will come out.

Who on earth thinks an opinion stated on a football message board makes him guilty? Strange thing to say.

 

[Garthshort]

Going back to my bible days, "Let you who are w/o sin cast the first stone", well that women would have been stoned to death, by many stones. She was very lucky.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

But I have a question:

What's worse: Drinking 2 beers to the point where you have a BAC of .08 or slightly higher or, say, getting caught doing 50 in a 35? Or 75 in a 65?

Easy answer. Speeding is more dangerous and causes more traffic accidents and fatalities. However, it doesn't spark the moral debate drinking an driving does. I doubt there'd be a 25+ page thread on Keim going 65 in a 45 even though that would be statistically much more dangerous.

 

[cardncubfan]

The idea that you're now defending a drunk who's now gotten multiple DUIs if freaking laughable and insulting.

The reason i think he should be fired are two-fold. One, as the leader of the team, he sets an AWFUL example for his players. If he can go around driving drunk, why can't they? And second... and this is actually MUCH more important, maybe, JUST MAYBE it would actually have an impact on him so he doesn't keep getting in cars drunk and putting other people's lives at risk. Because that's what he's doing... going out in a massive machine where he could KILL PEOPLE.

Some people need a massive slap in the face, not the wrist (like a suspension) to change their actions. And I know that because I'm speaking from experience.

And LAST I NEVER said he deserves for his career to be over. STOP LYING ABOUT WHAT I'VE SAID. I know you want to defend a two-time DUI drunk, but if you need to lie about what I said in order to do so, take a look in the mirror and think about why you need to do that.

What I ACTUALLY said is he should be fired from this team. Didn't say anything else about the rest of his career. I think he should take some time away, regroup his life, figure out how to get help and then he can absolutely rebuild his career from there.

And the reason I judge is because of people like you, who are continually blinded by ANYTHING bad about their team/political corner, able to overlook pretty much any offense, defend domestic absusers/Drunk Drivers because those people merely wear Cardinals red or are on their side politically. And that I think is pathetic.

You are the one lying about what I said. I never once defended Keim. Only disagreed with your judgement of wanting him fired immediately. You are the one LYING. Show where I defended him please. Stop being such a judgemental prick. People do have a different opinion than you & that doesn't make them blind.

 

[cardncubfan]

here's what we do know. He's admitted publicly to making a mistake here. HIS WORDS. That's good enough for me to consider him guilty once. And he already got a previous DUI. That makes him guilty twice. The internet has nothing to do with either of those things. One was an admission of guilt a couple days and another was a finding of guilt by a court of law. That's all I need to know that someone who continually puts other's lives in danger shouldn't be the figurehead for a huge sports team in a league where this kind of stuff runs rampant.

Sure does sound like you want his career ended. But I'm the one that's lying. Smh.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

then why didn't he just take a breathalyzer?

I've heard you should never do a breathalyzer in the field. Refuse and do blood test.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[RON_IN_OC]

and wouldn't take the field sobriety test?

Because the cop is looking for any reason to arrest, not let you go. Any stumble, mumble, etc and the bracelets go on.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[TJ]

every lawyer I’ve ever spoken to has said that you’re under no obligation to answer any questions, except to produce your license and registration. One way or another, they do need to check your BAC, but it’s best to have them wait to get someone to draw blood.

 

[Stout]

It’s more the basic stuff that grinds my gears. People not realizing they can go right on a red. People that think it’s okay to go left in an intersection 2-3 seconds after yellow turns red. Generally people that don’t understand how to merge and cut across 3 lanes at once. I don’t have road rage but I can understand how people lose it.

Actually, if you're fully in the intersection when the light goes to yellow and then to red (ie, you went into the intersection to turn left when the light was green, but the traffic doesn't allow it), it is illegal to then STAY in the intersection; it is perfectly legal to turn on the red at that point. The law is such so you don't create gridlock.

I'll put my hand up and say I wanted Keim fired because of the public police report. And I don't in the least feel bad about it. The police shouldn't be releasing public information that is inaccurate. And, as Keim was so demonstrative in his apology, I found little reason to doubt the public police report. Since I'm a fair person, I'm not currently calling for his firing, although Cheese has a good point about it being a 2nd DUI offense.

 

[gimpy]

Well, by law you are required to take a breath test when asked. If you refuse the state will suspend your right to drive for a year(?) maybe 6 months.

I always thought attorneys told their clients to take the breath test because of that.

Most things police ask you/ask you to do, in the end, do not benefit you. Most of the time, I would bet that he is pretty sure or at least suspicious that you are DUI when he stops you and first speaks to you. Everything else he does is just trying to confirm that.

Isn't that pretty much what the officer in the film was doing?

 

[football karma]

Most things police ask you/ask you to do, in the end, do not benefit you.

the bolded is what attorneys tell me all the time: if you have any suspicion that the police consider you a suspect in a matter -- say nothing until you speak with your attorney.

If police don't detain you (i.e. arrest you) -- they don't have to read you Miranda rights. Anything you tell them can be used against you. Innocent people assume that since they didn't do anything wrong, explaining will clear things up. Yes, the police want to clear things up -- but if they think you did it, clearing it up means having you charged.

being a LEO is hard -- you spend all day dealing with people who lie to you trying to save their skin. If some weird circumstantial evidence (that you may not be aware of) in a matter falsely points at you -- your aren't the innocent citizen trying to help them, you are the likely perp.

 

[Solar7]

I for one, am impressed how honest you were. The fact you came straight out about your heavy drinking means it has been something you have really thought about a lot. So, i am going to share something someone told me long ago:

"Normal drinkers NEVER wonder if they drink too much."

And, you are describing the alcoholic lifestyle very well. Its not that you will get into trouble every time you drink, but deinking will cause most of your troubles.

Please reach out beyond this message board and change your lifestyle. I promise you wont regret it.

I appreciate your words. Unfortunately, a lot of the "help" out there doesn't work very well. A lot of shoulder shrugging and people pointing you to AA. Every year I go sober for a few months at least, but it's really hard to maintain with work and trying to have some semblance of a social life.

It'd be easier if I had a wife, girlfriend, kids, but I don't, so I'm riding solo if I want to have people to spend time with - and frankly, most of my adult friends are drinkers. Drinking is THE activity, the rest are outliers.

 

[GatorAZ]

Actually, if you're fully in the intersection when the light goes to yellow and then to red (ie, you went into the intersection to turn left when the light was green, but the traffic doesn't allow it), it is illegal to then STAY in the intersection; it is perfectly legal to turn on the red at that point. The law is such so you don't create gridlock.

I'll put my hand up and say I wanted Keim fired because of the public police report. And I don't in the least feel bad about it. The police shouldn't be releasing public information that is inaccurate. And, as Keim was so demonstrative in his apology, I found little reason to doubt the public police report. Since I'm a fair person, I'm not currently calling for his firing, although Cheese has a good point about it being a 2nd DUI offense.

They’re not in the intersection when it turns red. They’re not even in the crosswalk! Greedy drivers.