Arizona Cardinals GM Steve Keim cited for DUI on July 4

[Solar7]

If he didn’t drink like you didn’t what is he apologizing for? Who apologizes for doing nothing wrong?

I've been taught for a long time in my career that you immediately accept ownership of your actions instead of making excuses, even if it's someone else's fault or you feel that the whole story isn't out there.

For example, recently my team had a campaign overspend by $20,000. It was definitely the agency's fault that we were working with - they weren't tracking the pacing of our spend. However, myself and my team should have held them accountable as well - either by requesting a frequent report of the cost, or tracking it ourselves. I sucked it up and took responsibility for their error, because at the end of the day, I could have prevented it.

Same as Keim - how would we all feel if he came out and said "well I don't think I was that drunk, I probably had a couple but the cops overreacted?" He'd be raked through the coals.

These are good points. My drinking trickled to almost nothing with the lady and little boys in my life. And as I said before there’s not much good help until someone’s reached rock bottom which is a shame bc why wait that long??? I think it’s becasue most alcoholics won’t admit it until rock bottom. You’re a little unique in your recognition. But don’t let the lack of programs geared for you deter you. Keep trying different things. And figure out which friends won’t deny it and actually want to help. They’re the ones that you likely need at present.

Or knock up a pretty showgirl get hitched and stop.

None of my friends force me to drink. They're mostly supportive when I am clear about having an issue. But it's hard to tell your coworkers "hey, I have a problem," unless you want them to now feel uncomfortable around you every time you have a cocktail or two at the company happy hour. Otherwise, you're sitting in a world with other reasonably heavy drinkers as part of work or friendship. But yeah, the fact that I haven't hit "rock bottom" is what makes programs like AA useless. I've never gotten a DUI, I've never hit my kid, I've never gotten into a fight... my worst stories are ASU-style shenanigans that I'm sure a solid 70% of that campus went through many a time. I keep looking for an alcohol moderation thing or something like that, but none of the programs are near me.

 

[Solar7]

gotcha.

I'd actually much rather drive with someone who just had a couple hits of joint than tipsy. Now, if you're talking about hot boxing an entire joint... well, yeah, but that's the equivalent of much more than just a couple drinks.

To each their own here, but I could probably walk a balance beam while simultaneously playing Starfox for N64 after 6 beers, even in my non-heavy drinking days, but two puffs of a joint make me fall asleep in 15 minutes.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I've been taught for a long time in my career that you immediately accept ownership of your actions instead of making excuses, even if it's someone else's fault or you feel that the whole story isn't out there.

For example, recently my team had a campaign overspend by $20,000. It was definitely the agency's fault that we were working with - they weren't tracking the pacing of our spend. However, myself and my team should have held them accountable as well - either by requesting a frequent report of the cost, or tracking it ourselves. I sucked it up and took responsibility for their error, because at the end of the day, I could have prevented it.

Same as Keim - how would we all feel if he came out and said "well I don't think I was that drunk, I probably had a couple but the cops overreacted?" He'd be raked through the coals.



None of my friends force me to drink. They're mostly supportive when I am clear about having an issue. But it's hard to tell your coworkers "hey, I have a problem," unless you want them to now feel uncomfortable around you every time you have a cocktail or two at the company happy hour. Otherwise, you're sitting in a world with other reasonably heavy drinkers as part of work or friendship. But yeah, the fact that I haven't hit "rock bottom" is what makes programs like AA useless. I've never gotten a DUI, I've never hit my kid, I've never gotten into a fight... my worst stories are ASU-style shenanigans that I'm sure a solid 70% of that campus went through many a time. I keep looking for an alcohol moderation thing or something like that, but none of the programs are near me.

I get the discomfort thing with work, but I’ll tell you, the most impressive person I work with is the one who won’t drink because she’s 12 years sober and owns it. And she doesn’t allow it to interfere with having fun or enjoying everyone. Of course, she DID have to hit Rick bottom which sucks.

 

[Solar7]

I get the discomfort thing with work, but I’ll tell you, the most impressive person I work with is the one who won’t drink because she’s 12 years sober and owns it. And she doesn’t allow it to interfere with having fun or enjoying everyone. Of course, she DID have to hit Rick bottom which sucks.

This is the huge issue though - AA has conditioned everyone into believing that the only choice is being permanently sober, or being an alcoholic, and it's really not true. There are medications like Naltrexone that can assist with the body's craving for alcohol, and as you mentioned, there are people who limit their alcohol use with families and things like that.

Props to your coworker who "owns it," but owning it for me means putting everyone on pins and needles because they think I can't handle my life drinking responsibly.

Alcohol isn't inherently evil. But people sure think it is.

 

[cardsfanmd]

I got a dui coming home from a birthday dinner in ‘13. As soon as the officer questioned me about drinking I told him I had two beers but a full dinner and actually asked for the breathalyzer because I didn’t think there was any way I’d be over the limit. Low and behold, I blew a .08 on the dot. I never have and never will have a drinking problem but I have kids and respect our judicial system so while I still love a beer or two here and there, I keep a breathalyzer in the center console of my truck now to check myself before I contemplate driving. It makes things very simple. If I blow over .05, I Uber. The end. Bars should have them. Charge people $1 per blow and everyone wins. Bar profits, people have the intel to not be ignorant.

We don’t know the facts on this (at least I haven’t seen them) so I’m not condoning or condemning Keim yet.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This is the huge issue though - AA has conditioned everyone into believing that the only choice is being permanently sober, or being an alcoholic, and it's really not true. There are medications like Naltrexone that can assist with the body's craving for alcohol, and as you mentioned, there are people who limit their alcohol use with families and things like that.

Props to your coworker who "owns it," but owning it for me means putting everyone on pins and needles because they think I can't handle my life drinking responsibly.

Alcohol isn't inherently evil. But people sure think it is.

have you ever thought about just doing therapy? I get people not wanting to do AA. The religious aspect of it would probably make me uncomfortable if I ever had a problem like this. But the amount of booze you're drinking comes from somewhere, dude. I get that you haven't hit rock bottom and am thankful for that, but if you're drinking as much as you say and your body "craves it", sounds like you're drowning something that you don't want to deal with to me and a therapist might be able to unlock whatever that is and if there is a there there, if you can deal with that, you might be able to deal with your cravings as well.

Just a thought. I know therapy ain't for everyone either, but if you're looking to exhaust options, it's just one to consider.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

You can bet all those Steak 44 dinners / meetings they're not all drinking sweet tea. Anyone there drinking alcohol could be stopped on the way home. Keim wont be the last executive who gets popped for DUI and next time might be on company time?

 

[Solar7]

have you ever thought about just doing therapy? I get people not wanting to do AA. The religious aspect of it would probably make me uncomfortable if I ever had a problem like this. But the amount of booze you're drinking comes from somewhere, dude. I get that you haven't hit rock bottom and am thankful for that, but if you're drinking as much as you say and your body "craves it", sounds like you're drowning something that you don't want to deal with to me and a therapist might be able to unlock whatever that is and if there is a there there, if you can deal with that, you might be able to deal with your cravings as well.

Just a thought. I know therapy ain't for everyone either, but if you're looking to exhaust options, it's just one to consider.

Already seeing one. Appreciate the thoughts though. I know I have my own issues. One step at a time, I guess.

 

[Solar7]

You can bet all those Steak 44 dinners / meetings they're not all drinking sweet tea. Anyone there drinking alcohol could be stopped on the way home. Keim wont be the last executive who gets popped for DUI and next time might be on company time?

Totally agreed with this. Unless everyone is rolling in and out with limos and individual dropoffs around the valley, do you really think this is just a Keim problem?

I think it's a "hasn't been caught" thing.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Already seeing one. Appreciate the thoughts though. I know I have my own issues. One step at a time, I guess.

Wish ya luck brotha!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Totally agreed with this. Unless everyone is rolling in and out with limos and individual dropoffs around the valley, do you really think this is just a Keim problem?

I think it's a "hasn't been caught" thing.

100%

 

[82CardsGrad]

You can bet all those Steak 44 dinners / meetings they're not all drinking sweet tea. Anyone there drinking alcohol could be stopped on the way home. Keim wont be the last executive who gets popped for DUI and next time might be on company time?

Only thing I would add is just a statement on the incredible stupidity of these guys in NOT using a limo or Uber whenever they go out... They make gazillions... there is no need for them to be behind a wheel of a car whenever they’re at night. I will say, that on two occasions when I saw Keim and crew out at Steak 44, they piled into a SUV Limo...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mainstreet]

Notice one of the first questions was how much have you had to drink. I was thinking about this a bit.

This is almost a trick question. Answer truthfully and one admits to being under the influence. Say no and risk lying to a police officer.

I wonder if answering some water would work as an answer. If asked again, repeat as necessary and don't lie. Of course one can remain silent and ask for an attorney.

Any thoughts? I do not drink and drive.

 

[Solar7]

Notice one of the first questions was how much have you had to drink. I was thinking about this a bit.

This is almost a trick question. Answer truthfully and one admits to being under the influence. Say no and risk lying to a police officer.

I wonder if answering some water would work as an answer. If asked again, repeat as necessary and don't lie. Of course one can remain silent and ask for an attorney.

Any thoughts? I do not drink and drive.

In my understanding, it differs from officer to officer. "A couple" is admitting you've been drinking and are hoping you've metabolized enough to not blow above the limit, "not drinking" is hoping that the officer who is pulling you over predominately for DUI isn't going to pull you out of the car to test you. I think for those who really did "just have two beers and some pizza two hours ago," you're best off telling the truth.

I legitimately don't applaud people who lied their way out of a DUI, just so I stand clear here. Just because I'm a heavy drinker doesn't mean I think everyone on the road should be pushing any limits.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Notice one of the first questions was how much have you had to drink. I was thinking about this a bit.

This is almost a trick question. Answer truthfully and one admits to being under the influence. Say no and risk lying to a police officer.

I wonder if answering some water would work as an answer. If asked again, repeat as necessary and don't lie. Of course one can remain silent and ask for an attorney.

Any thoughts? I do not drink and drive.

Here's my thought on if this is a "trick" question:

If you're not drinking and driving, you can't be tricked.

 

[Mainstreet]

In my understanding, it differs from officer to officer. "A couple" is admitting you've been drinking and are hoping you've metabolized enough to not blow above the limit, "not drinking" is hoping that the officer who is pulling you over predominately for DUI isn't going to pull you out of the car to test you. I think for those who really did "just have two beers and some pizza two hours ago," you're best off telling the truth.

I legitimately don't applaud people who lied their way out of a DUI, just so I stand clear here. Just because I'm a heavy drinker doesn't mean I think everyone on the road should be pushing any limits.

Here's my thought on if this is a "trick" question:

If you're not drinking and driving, you can't be tricked.

I do not believe a person can lie their way out of a DUI hence the water example, where it can be answered truthfully.

The point I was making, the question (how much have you had to drink) entraps anyone answering it who has anyone even one glass of wine with diner and nothing else. Technically one can be considered impaired even if they blow less than .08 no matter how slight. So by answering the question truthfully, one has admitted guilt. Also the police can lie to you but you can't lie to the police so it's a catch 22.

I do not drink and drive but I do not like to give up my individual rights by answering a question designed to take those rights away. I'm guessing police have other questions designed like this for other issues as well, e.g., how fast you were speeding, etc.

 

[blindseyed]

I don't drink and can't pass a sobriety test, I'm diabetic and have neuropathy in my feet so balancing is an issue, I've never had to tell a cop that tho

 

[Stout]

I don't drink and can't pass a sobriety test, I'm diabetic and have neuropathy in my feet so balancing is an issue, I've never had to tell a cop that tho

Same here. I also have bad feet, ankles, and knees. I've always dreaded that scenario too.

 

[blindseyed]

Same here. I also have bad feet, ankles, and knees. I've always dreaded that scenario too.

I'm sure telling them would be fine, Shane is probably familiar with this scenario

 

[Stout]

I'm sure telling them would be fine, Shane is probably familiar with this scenario

I know. Still wouldn't help with the anxiety in the situation, though, knowing that there ARE a few power-hungry ***** out there. Obviously not Shane--he's a Cards fan, after all

 

[blindseyed]

I know. Still wouldn't help with the anxiety in the situation, though, knowing that there ARE a few power-hungry ***** out there. Obviously not Shane--he's a Cards fan, after all

Lol he might do it to US! Haha
I have an insulin pump and carry my tester so I'm assuming that would be enough haha. Worse came to worse I could do a breathalizer if they were really trying to hassle me

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Notice one of the first questions was how much have you had to drink.

The first question is actually "Have you had anything to drink tonight?"

As a lifelong non-drinker and a sarcastic person, I've always thought about that initial question myself. Drinking and driving is a very serious issue which has directly impacted my life more than once, but...if I was ever pulled over and asked that question...is an officer going to think I'm being honest or being a jerk when I tell him I had some lemonade and a flavored water? It's purely semantics, but they don't ask you if you've had any alcohol to drink...just "anything to drink."

 

[Mainstreet]

The first question is actually "Have you had anything to drink tonight?"

As a lifelong non-drinker and a sarcastic person, I've always thought about that initial question myself. Drinking and driving is a very serious issue which has directly impacted my life more than once, but...if I was ever pulled over and asked that question...is an officer going to think I'm being honest or being a jerk when I tell him I had some lemonade and a flavored water? It's purely semantics, but they don't ask you if you've had any alcohol to drink...just "anything to drink."

The problem is, it's a loaded question which is phrased so that anyone who has consumed alcohol, no matter how small, is asked to implicate himself.

Based on the question, I think drinking water as an answer would be honest. However, saying I prefer not to answer that question (if one has consumed alcohol) would probably be the better response if one does not want to admit guilt.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Notice one of the first questions was how much have you had to drink. I was thinking about this a bit.

This is almost a trick question. Answer truthfully and one admits to being under the influence. Say no and risk lying to a police officer.

I wonder if answering some water would work as an answer. If asked again, repeat as necessary and don't lie. Of course one can remain silent and ask for an attorney.

Any thoughts? I do not drink and drive.

Your example is a little flawed because the first question is usually "Have you had anything to drink this evening?" Asking "How much have you had to drink?" would be a follow-up question once you have admitted to drinking something.

The question "Have you had anything to drink tonight?" is not a trick question at all. It is more of a litmus test, IMHO. Can the officer trust you to be honest with him or will you be deceptive? Your answer determines how the rest of the stop is going to go.

 

[Mainstreet]

Your example is a little flawed because the first question is usually "Have you had anything to drink this evening?" Asking "How much have you had to drink?" would be a follow-up question once you have admitted to drinking something.

The question "Have you had anything to drink tonight?" is not a trick question at all. It is more of a litmus test, IMHO. Can the officer trust you to be honest with him or will you be deceptive? Your answer determines how the rest of the stop is going to go.

I disagree. If you watched the entire video while the officer was following in his police vehicle, the remarks he made gave an insight into his thinking.

No matter how the question was phrased (I do not have the quote in front of me) the intent was to get the driver to admit to alcohol consumption not establish trust.