Arizona Cardinals GM Steve Keim cited for DUI on July 4

[CardLogic]

Uber must've gotten too expensive for Keim boozing with people he should not be boozing with at Steak 44 and City Hall 6 nights a week.

He's a clown who needs to be fired yesterday.

It's sort of coming off like your offended that he didn't want to drink with you!


Just saying. . .

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I can leave the country with extraordinary odds... I can become a neurosurgeon and move to a country in desperate need of that expertise, but your average Joe cannot head out to another country. I don't want to make this about drinking laws necessarily, I think I'm just smarting from a previous conversation with someone else about the "love it or leave it" thing. I can't easily uproot myself or my family to another region over laws I disagree with - but I'm assuming there's plenty of laws you disagree with too. That's the nature of our republic.

I was making a gun allegory and you basically slid into lockstep with me on the interlock thing. Again, I don't know your politics. I'd probably lean towards guns being taken, and interlocks being installed. (I also appreciate our conversation's civility.)

Replies to come, of course.

First, average joes do it all the time. Even sub-average joes. That said, you’re right . . . it’s not easy. But that’s making MY point. It’s easier to live within a society because you are not responsible for everything (food production, safety, medicine, shelter, etc) so because it’s easier you remain here despite not agreeing with all laws. But in so doing you are entering into a contract with everyone else to abide by the laws of the majority. If you don’t, you are removed from society (prison, deportation or death penalty).

And ultimately I think we agree on things like guns and interlocks. If they will make our society indelibly safer I am willing to give up those particular “freedoms.”

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm not trying to make an argument here, just personal insight, in a different city. My friends would go to that bar without me and wouldn't think twice. I live in a place full of consistent drinkers, and when I lived in Phoenix, it honestly wasn't that much different. But, y'know, I went to ASU. I've been kicked off many a barstool for trying not to drink - asked to sit at a table to enjoy food instead, which is acceptable. But still alienating to my friends.

Alienating to your friends? Man that’s a low bar for friendship.

Which I do. I won't make my friends' errors in judgement anymore - I guess I was "lucky" enough to learn from their poor choices.

Good to hear. Better to learn from others mistakes than your own.

Nope. "Evident" shouldn't be part of that - it's to whatever point someone is impaired. The issue we have is that we've set a level of acceptable impairment. We're already marginalizing the cutoff. I wouldn't personally argue for zero tolerance, but I would think the argument is sound, if that makes sense.

But who determines the level of impairment? The driver? That would be insane. As a result we need a bright line threshold. It just can’t be subjective as that creates a moving target and is a recipe for disaster.

I think the ultimate goal of the legal limit is to make sure no one gets to the point where their motor skills are limited.

I don’t think it’s just motor skills. I think it’s judgment impairment as well. And that’s much more difficult to judge.

.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And you mention "horrific to witness" -- despite my challenges with alcohol, every time I tell someone in my life I have a problem, they say "oh no you don't" because I have a job, car, home, and I'm fun to be around. There simply aren't resources for people who haven't hit rock bottom.

Yeah this is so true. And so sad.

After that whole thing, sorry to finish with this non-starter, but I've been kicked off of so many barstools in my life for not drinking that I can't even keep track anymore. I know a guy who got 86'd for coming into the bar and only ordering fries and diet coke. It sucks, but people feel uncomfortable with people that aren't drinking around them during a drinking event, and bartenders want the money.

Viva Las Vegas. Thanks for letting me lay this all out there.

Man I’ve been an incredibly social person throughout life. Phoenix, Boston DC, and SoCal and I’ve literally never witnessed that. So it’s pretty shocking to hear that’s been your experience. .

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think you know you're correct when you say your friends can't tell you whether you have a drinking problem. Only you can do that. They don't want to lose you as a friend or face their own situation... It scares most people.

You are right when you say there are not a lot of avenues for those in your situation... Private counseling maybe??

To me it's not about how much you drink or with whom you drink, or when, or what or where... It's about what happens when you drink,,,, do you isolate yourself, do you spend money that would be better spent elsewhere, do your relationships suffer, are you sick, do you wake up in Wikieup going wtf??? etc.

If YOU want to deal with it, just start where you are. Willingness is what it takes, imo. If you're not willing, are you willing to be willing? Or are you willing to be willing to be willing etc. Get on that train wherever you can.

I hope you don't regret opening up on a message board, I certainly won't think differently of you about it.

Be honest with yourself, then do what is right for you.

Amen. Also, from what I learned going through it alongside my ex and doing the research, it’s the WHY do you drink to that extent. It’s usually a masking or escaping agent. Get to the bottom of that and solve the issue and you’ve got a much better opportunity to see the symptoms (drinking to excess) disappear.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That's what was being taught in drivers ed back in the day that one drink an hour of the examples given puts you at .10. And everything you said, I said. Even today I could drink a margarita, a real margarita and not the garbage TGI Fridays gives you, and I'll be fine. Even if I blew a .10 I would in no way be impaired but by law I'd be .02 over the legal limit and by the letter of the law I'd be drunk. That's why I said the numbers are arbitrary.


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Uh almost every chart I just looked at online refutes the drink breakdown you just made.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I've always thought .08 is pretty low, but meh the law is the law.

I don't think Keim should be fired for a one off thing just like I thought it was ok to draft Floyd after his two incidents in college...but his third incident showed he hadn't changed and was likely doing that type of thing all of the time.

 

[Mainstreet]

I've always thought .08 is pretty low, but meh the law is the law.

I don't think Keim should be fired for a one off thing just like I thought it was ok to draft Floyd after his two incidents in college...but his third incident showed he hadn't changed and was likely doing that type of thing all of the time.

I've always wondered how some of the restaurants (who serve alcohol) and bars stay in business.

 

[BillsCarnage]

If he was within walking distance, then he could have walked.

I always thought of it as crawling distance.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Uber must've gotten too expensive for Keim boozing with people he should not be boozing with at Steak 44 and City Hall 6 nights a week.

He's a clown who needs to be fired yesterday.

I take it that you work at these two establishments, right?

 

[82CardsGrad]

For what this is worth - which probably is nothing at all - I have personally seen Keim out a bar/restaurant on three separate occasions. Granted, the most I interacted with him was one time when it seemed appropriate to say hello. But in each instance, I was very close to him and those he was hanging with.
I have always liked Keim a lot. Always respected the man for the job he's done, as well as how he's gone about doing it. That said, the last time I saw him out (45 days ago at an event in Phoenix), I felt like I was seeing a bit of a change. I even mentioned it to my wife who was with me that night. Keim was never without a drink in his hand the entire night, which, ordinarily I wouldn't think anything of that. However, this was a charity event and there were tons of other athletes and Phoenix area personalities in attendance. All of whom seemed much more aware of the moment and their surroundings. But, what struck me way more than the drinks in his hand all night, was his demeanor. Keim has always come across as extremely humble and respectful. But this night, frankly he was bordering on being an ********...
Who knows... could've been just an off night for the guy. We all have them don't we... But gotta say that when I saw the news report about his DUI, I honestly was not at all surprised. After that night 45 days ago, I honestly felt like he had taken a turn and was becoming someone else...

The "why" behind these stories is so wide and varied... We might not ever know exactly why Keim made such a poor and reckless decision. Could be something very minor and superficial... or, could be a sign of something much deeper and more problematic. I truly hope it's the former...that this was just a momentary lapse in judgement. However, experience tells me that it's usually a bit more than that.
Either way, I support the man, will pray for the man and his family. And hope this serves as his alltime life low-point, and that he ultimately uses this experience to the benefit of others...

 

[BillsCarnage]

Here's what Kime will get to experience:
1. Night in Chandler jail with the other drunks
2. Car is impounded for 30 days
3. License suspended for 90 days
4. Spend a **** ton of money on an attorney
5. Get to have an interlock device installed on every car he owns...including any family members for at least a half year
6. Couple of days in the 4th Avenue jail
7. probable home detention
8. Mandatory Alcohol classes
9. Probation for at least a half decade
10. Have to stand in open court with a ton of reporters around and listen to him allocute in front of the judge.

Not even that much. Per the DMV site. "May" being the key word.

Penalties for a Standard DUI
For a 1st offense of a standard DUI, you may face:

• 10 days in jail.
• A fine of $1,250.
• Required completion of an alcohol/drug screening, treatment, and education program.
• An ignition interlock requirement for every vehicle you drive.
• Community service

 

[ajcardfan]

For what this is worth - which probably is nothing at all - I have personally seen Keim out a bar/restaurant on three separate occasions. Granted, the most I interacted with him was one time when it seemed appropriate to say hello. But in each instance, I was very close to him and those he was hanging with.
I have always liked Keim a lot. Always respected the man for the job he's done, as well as how he's gone about doing it. That said, the last time I saw him out (45 days ago at an event in Phoenix), I felt like I was seeing a bit of a change. I even mentioned it to my wife who was with me that night. Keim was never without a drink in his hand the entire night, which, ordinarily I wouldn't think anything of that. However, this was a charity event and there were tons of other athletes and Phoenix area personalities in attendance. All of whom seemed much more aware of the moment and their surroundings. But, what struck me way more than the drinks in his hand all night, was his demeanor. Keim has always come across as extremely humble and respectful. But this night, frankly he was bordering on being an ********...
Who knows... could've been just an off night for the guy. We all have them don't we... But gotta say that when I saw the news report about his DUI, I honestly was not at all surprised. After that night 45 days ago, I honestly felt like he had taken a turn and was becoming someone else...

The "why" behind these stories is so wide and varied... We might not ever know exactly why Keim made such a poor and reckless decision. Could be something very minor and superficial... or, could be a sign of something much deeper and more problematic. I truly hope it's the former...that this was just a momentary lapse in judgement. However, experience tells me that it's usually a bit more than that.
Either way, I support the man, will pray for the man and his family. And hope this serves as his alltime life low-point, and that he ultimately uses this experience to the benefit of others...

There are people who are high functioning alcoholics. They can drink just as much alcohol on a daily basis as the guy holding a sign by the freeway. They can be very challenging to talk to about alcohol use since " they dont have a problem, look at my great life."

Your post on Keim is very imsightful. For a high functioning drunk, it often takes something of real consequence, and dui in AZ is not fun. Hopefully the pain and humiliation helps keim to get real about his drinking and gets to be abettet man

 

[NJCardFan]

I do it all the time.

The interaction of "You are not drinking! Why? [Blah, blah, blah, some condencending remark about their "manliness" in comparison to myself because they choose to drink beer and alcohol and I don't]". Usually needs to be had a few times, but they are drinking, and forget about it. Personally, I do not care about a drunk man's opinion, or a drunk woman's opinion for that matter, so no biggie.

To each his own, but again, to each his own.

I don't go to bars. I've probably been to half a dozen bars over the past 10 years total. Ever since I stopped drinking(not 100% but severely) I've had no reason to go into them.


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[NJCardFan]

I think many people, when impaired, think, "It's just down the road. I'll be fine. What are the chances that something bad will happen?"

For me, believe me I know when I'm impaired. Back in my binge drinking days, I would lose whole days. I would drink whole bottles of vodka in a sitting and not think twice about it.


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[NJCardFan]

Uh almost every chart I just looked at online refutes the drink breakdown you just made.

JFC how many times do I have to say that this is what was being taught in 1981. It was an average, a simplification to help prospective drivers understand what is considered an alcoholic drink.


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[Bert]

I've always thought .08 is pretty low, but meh the law is the law.

I don't think Keim should be fired for a one off thing just like I thought it was ok to draft Floyd after his two incidents in college...but his third incident showed he hadn't changed and was likely doing that type of thing all of the time.

Agree. It was really Floyd's defiance and playing the victim that really bothered me, and obviously Mike B. I think he (MB) is a reasonable person that knows people makes mistakes but with his history in law, he atleast wants you to own it, which Floyd would never do. So right out of the gate I think the comparison to Floyd that people (not you) are making is totally invalid.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Floyd was a repeat offender and caught comatose at the wheel in the middle of an intersection.

Yes DUI is bad and there needs to be consequences but by any measure Floyd's case was way way worse

I see the recent articles mentioning both Floyd and Keim as more of a passing of the torch type thing.

Floyd was just the most recent dumb-ass to endanger others by driving drunk.

John Abraham (2013) passed the DUI torch to Bobby Massie (2015) who passed the DUI torch to Michael Floyd (2016) who passed the DUI torch to GM Steve Keim (2018).

No different than the next Cardinal who gets in trouble for domestic abuse will be mentioned in the same breath as the last player on the team to get in trouble for domestic abuse.

 

[gmabel830]

I see the recent articles mentioning both Floyd and Keim as more of a passing of the torch type thing.

Floyd was just the most recent dumb-ass to endanger others by driving drunk.

John Abraham (2013) passed the DUI torch to Bobby Massie (2015) who passed the DUI torch to Michael Floyd (2016) who passed the DUI torch to GM Steve Keim (2018).

No different than the next Cardinal who gets in trouble for domestic abuse will be mentioned in the same breath as the last player on the team to get in trouble for domestic abuse.

Dwyer?

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[speedy]

I'm pretty sure there would be a morality clause in his contract that gives the Cardinals an out. If a video comes out reminiscent of Michael Floyd, I think the Cardinals could walk away from the contract. Pretty sure but not totally sure.

Well, in a likelihood there is BWC Video of it.

 

[speedy]

My ex wife blew a .308 in her DUI, where she committed hit and run (no injuries). She spent a whole 10 hours in jail, got the interlock (for a year I think), 30 day suspension on her license, and went to TEN 1 hour group sessions. That was the extent of her “punishment.”

Per statute, she should have been in jail way longer (“super extreme DUI”). She has rich parents, that’s the difference.

Get the right lawyer and sandbag the case.

Our judicial system is a joke. It’s a place of business first, and in the course of conducting said business, justice may prevail. Sad but true.

I think this is what aggravates me the most of all you black and white types on this board: you think our lawmakers, police departments, prosecutors, and judiciary is all about justice. They’re about making $$$$$$!!!!!!!!!

 

[speedy]

Shane-

LEOs do a lot of catch and release for DUI here. My ex spouse was only arrested for suspicion of DUI, and taken to the muni holding tank for her blood draw. She went back 5 days later to submit her finger prints, and the city picked up charges about 3 months later. Rather common, unless the DUI has some other aggravating factor such as fatality, serious injury, pissed the cop off, etc). Then you go sit in county.

 

[splitsecond]

My ex wife blew a .308 in her DUI, where she committed hit and run (no injuries). She spent a whole 10 hours in jail, got the interlock (for a year I think), 30 day suspension on her license, and went to TEN 1 hour group sessions. That was the extent of her “punishment.”

Per statute, she should have been in jail way longer (“super extreme DUI”). She has rich parents, that’s the difference.

Get the right lawyer and sandbag the case.

Our judicial system is a joke. It’s a place of business first, and in the course of conducting said business, justice may prevail. Sad but true.

I think this is what aggravates me the most of all you black and white types on this board: you think our lawmakers, police departments, prosecutors, and judiciary is all about justice. They’re about making $$$$$$!!!!!!!!!

As someone who has been worked by and also worked in the justice system, this is a pretty accurate post.

Bottom line, don't drink and drive. Especially on a damn holiday.

 

[Sandan]

I see the recent articles mentioning both Floyd and Keim as more of a passing of the torch type thing.

Floyd was just the most recent dumb-ass to endanger others by driving drunk.

John Abraham (2013) passed the DUI torch to Bobby Massie (2015) who passed the DUI torch to Michael Floyd (2016) who passed the DUI torch to GM Steve Keim (2018).

No different than the next Cardinal who gets in trouble for domestic abuse will be mentioned in the same breath as the last player on the team to get in trouble for domestic abuse.

Floyf wasn't driving drunk, he was driving comatose

 

[JeffGollin]

Lots of fan-input here. I skimmed a lot of it, so if what I say has already been said, I apologize ahead of time.

Unless we have special inside team info, us fans are still viewing this issue from the outside looking in. We lack context (All we know is that DUI ishas serious implications, Steve was busted for DUI and he issued a couple of obligatory statements). What we don't know is:

- What's the team culture like regarding drinking, partying etc.? (Is the attitude "live and let live?" Or are there more rigid standards)?

- Was this a "one and done deal?" Or is it part of a pattern that will need to be continually remedied / monitored?

- Since it involves the team-management's "face of the organization", how is this being received/dealt-with in the Cardinal locker room? (Is Steve expected to talk with the players? What will he say? How will it be accepted by the players - Sincere contrition by Steve? "business as usual?" loss of respect? Will he have lost credibility with players, staff and ownership? What will he have to do/say to regain it)?

- Can we learn from other teams who have dealt with similar issues?

Whether or not Steve is or isn't a good guy or a talented GM are a separate matter to be discussed elsewhere. We are dealing dealing with human nature and all its foibles here (including guys who are genuinely apologetic, others who - because they're so talented in other aspects of their lives - think they can do no wrong and/or those who have the inner qualities needed to make the necessary life-style changes etc.).

Steve is lucky that he didn't rack up the car or kill anyone (including himself). The hope has to be that he(1) takes this seriously and (2) has the personal strengths needed to clean up his act and stay on the straight and narrow.

I say this as someone who's made his share of mistakes and bad decisions over my 80 years - and has been lucky to live long enough to tell the tail. DUI is a serious matter that should be dealt with seriously. But rather than "go nuclear" or point fingers, let's hope that everyone involved - from Ownership to Team Professionals to Steve and his family - does the right things and that everything works out so that the DUI incident becomes a mere speed-bump in an otherwise successful career.