Arizona Cardinals GM Steve Keim cited for DUI on July 4

[ajcardfan]

Driving in the 4th with alcohol in your system is beyond ignorant. Cops are everywhere and if you’re over the age 25 you should have the brain cells to know it.
He’ll be fine and he will learn from it...we hope.

Indeed. I had a few drinks, and there was no way in hell I was driving anywhere (even though I wasn't hammered) on the Fourth of July. Or, New Year's Eve, etc. I had four beers and one shot in about four hours. With the DUI penalties in this state, I'm terrified of being even mildly under the influence and getting popped. Plus, I would lose my job.

But Keim, he doesn't need to be fired. If it affects how he does his job, that would be very different.

 

[ajcardfan]

FYI,

In Arizona, people are routinely prosecuted for DUI even if they come in under .08. My friend has a daughter at ASU, and she got a DUI blowing a .03. Even did jail for 5 days. She went in at night, and was released during the day. And, her license was suspended for 6 mos.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Sorry, I had meant to address these two things and didn't...

With the risk of skewing off into a tangent maybe more appropriate for another board, we don't exactly have the ability to shirk society's laws. I was randomly born into a society, I didn't join it, so never once did I "agree" to anything. However, I, and most people, are not capable of escaping "society's" law no matter what we do. There's nowhere that I can go live without DUI laws, nowhere that someone who doesn't agree with drug laws can go live, at least not with considerable effort spared only for the few.

As far as zero tolerance, you're missing my point. My friend knew the law - yes, he was drinking illegally. He should have been following the law in your eyes. However, he wasn't drunk, especially compared to me, and acted mostly responsibly, while paying the price. In a perfect world, he wouldn't have had two beers over the course of the night.

Again, Keim's stuff needs to come out before I'll even think of defending him, I just hate this all-or-nothing "you're 100% evil or 100% good" stuff when it comes to the court of public opinion.

You’re born into society, yes. But you have free volition to leave. You can move to a remote location and try to live self-sufficiently where you drink on your own land without putting others at risk. But that’s difficult. So you (like all the rest of us) choose to continue to live in society and abide by its laws because we are social creatures and excel when relying upon one and other.

And I’m not missing your point. I get it. There are different levels. But our society has deemed it difficult for those under 21 to make good decisions with alcohol. And even more difficult to make decisions behind the wheel with alcohol playing a role. At the end of the day it’s virtually impossible to please everyone with thresholds, but they have to be set somewhere and then applied consistently. Anything else results in anarchy or injustices.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well, that's where it comes down to people's individual interpretations. To some, being above that .08 threshold is "drunk," no matter what. That's what my mom would certainly tell you.

To others, maybe more seasoned drinkers, we tend to look at it a little different. I look at it as sober, had a couple, buzzed, tipsy, drunk, browned-out, blacked-out, passed out. Maybe too many in my nomenclature, and anything past buzzed I'd consider a real issue for driving, but it's helpful for me to understand where someone is on the scale. Floyd was at the far end of my scale and I consider him reprehensible for what he did.

Buzzed typically means a changed state of mind. I don’t want to be on the streets with my boys in my car with anyone that’s buzzed. Pretty simple. Don’t need to be drunk to be a danger.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Calling for automatic termination for all legal encounters .

I don’t know what this means.

 

[gimpy]

As far as i know, under state law .08 Is "presumed" to be under the influence. .04--.08, the state has to show that your driving was influenced, i.e., too slow driving, weaving, can't walk a straight line, etc. The state has to show something else besides just the B.A. reading.

Under.04, the driver is "presumed" to NOT be under the influence. If she was under the .04, i don't understand what happened to make them convict?

 

[ajcardfan]

As far as i know, under state law .08 Is "presumed" to be under the influence. .04--.08, the state has to show that your driving was influenced, i.e., too slow driving, weaving, can't walk a straight line, etc. The state has to show something else besides just the B.A. reading.

Under.04, the driver is "presumed" to NOT be under the influence. If she was under the .04, i don't understand what happened to make them convict?

It happens. But apparently, this is the guy you should call.

https://www.arizonacriminaldefenselawyer.com/dui-below-08.html

My friends daughter had driven over a curb, which brought her to the attention of the police. That was the evidence they used to punish the heck out of her.

 

[TJ]

FYI,

In Arizona, people are routinely prosecuted for DUI even if they come in under .08. My friend has a daughter at ASU, and she got a DUI blowing a .03. Even did jail for 5 days. She went in at night, and was released during the day. And, her license was suspended for 6 mos.

Must’ve been more to the story. While DUIs < .08 happen often, a 5 day jail sentence w/ 6 month license suspension is extremely punitive.

 

[Garthshort]

I'm sure he did it on purpose to show the players that it can happen to anyone. A good learning lesson for the team.

 

[Ronin]

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[az jam]

He won't lose his job and really shouldn't. He may be fined and probably suspended for several games. Which means (I think) that he would not be allowed in the Cards facility for the weeks that he is suspended. Michael Bidwill will play by the book and there won't be any funny stuff while he is suspended. Keim will also be on short leash.

 

[Solar7]

You’re born into society, yes. But you have free volition to leave. You can move to a remote location and try to live self-sufficiently where you drink on your own land without putting others at risk. But that’s difficult. So you (like all the rest of us) choose to continue to live in society and abide by its laws because we are social creatures and excel when relying upon one and other.

And I’m not missing your point. I get it. There are different levels. But our society has deemed it difficult for those under 21 to make good decisions with alcohol. And even more difficult to make decisions behind the wheel with alcohol playing a role. At the end of the day it’s virtually impossible to please everyone with thresholds, but they have to be set somewhere and then applied consistently. Anything else results in anarchy or injustices.

Honestly, tell me where I have free volition to leave. The vast majority of open land in the US is privately or BLM owned - and were I to find a suitable spot, I'd need keen survival skills, and an income of some kind. Any idea that in the US that we have freedom from the government is pure illusion. Don't get me wrong, I mostly agree with our laws and could certainly have been born into a worse place. But to pretend I could pack up and leave - even to another country - is laughable.

Our society's drinking laws around kids that are old enough to die in war but not old enough to have a beer are laughable too. Maybe we wouldn't have a bunch of binge drinking unsupervised teens if we did something about teaching responsibility instead of abstinence.

Again though, sorry for getting us off track.

Buzzed typically means a changed state of mind. I don’t want to be on the streets with my boys in my car with anyone that’s buzzed. Pretty simple. Don’t need to be drunk to be a danger.

That's fine and dandy, but in that case, call it what it is - you'd prefer that we institute laws or a system where bars/individuals cannot serve alcohol to anyone without a verified ride home. I'm perfectly accepting of that stance, but if that's your stance, own it. This doesn't come down to personal responsibility at this point - any bar is overserving past handing a person one drink to ensure they stay under the legal limit.

I don't know you well enough to know if you drink or not, so no judgement here, but it sounds more like you're advocating for a zero tolerance policy.

Edit: Eh, just wanna be clear again - I'm not advocating for more leniency in how much we can drink or anything, just that I don't want to demonize people who make smaller mistakes. In all honesty, I would have no problem with installing every single vehicle with an interlock device to get it started.

 

[sunsfan88]

Designate a driver, call a cab or uber. It's really that simple. If I, as a teacher, can afford uber, then so can Keim. And I get that famous people may not want the common folk knowing their business or their drinking habits. Fine. Then don't uber. Call a friend. Hire a car service. Do something other than drive.

He should know better.

Or don’t drink.

I always tell people that if you don’t have safe and reliable transportation planned for afterwards then don’t drink.

Simple.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Also exceptionally disappointing considering that he's in a such an important leadership role with team. He has to deal with other GMs and league officials on a regular basis. Negotiate with them, attempt to influence them. This will cripple his professional reputation in the short term. Maybe even permanently, which will in turn hurt his efforts to help make the Cardinals a better football team.

It will be his actions after the incident that will decide how history eventually judges him though. Lots of community service, maybe rehab. He has to become visibly anti-DUI. If he does that, he might be able to salvage the situation.

 

[Solar7]

Or don’t drink.

I always tell people that if you don’t have safe and reliable transportation planned for afterwards then don’t drink.

Simple.

I'm a heavy drinker - simple as that. I honestly don't get how "don't drink" is an option in a lot of social situations that literally revolve around drinking. It's a character flaw. But when I have an important after-work client meeting, I need to drink or be the uncomfortable guy not interacting. When everyone is going to sit at the bar for three hours to watch the game, it's either I drink or don't go, because you can't just take up a barstool drinking diet soda when you're costing the bartender money.

Two caveats - I live in Las Vegas, where things are always dialed up to 11, and I also get "reliable" transportation, although that may sometimes be in the form of someone that had 2-3 drinks instead of someone stone cold sober.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

He should be fired immediately. Absolutely zero excuse for this or his constant partying.

 

[sunsfan88]

I'm a heavy drinker - simple as that. I honestly don't get how "don't drink" is an option in a lot of social situations that literally revolve around drinking. It's a character flaw. But when I have an important after-work client meeting, I need to drink or be the uncomfortable guy not interacting. When everyone is going to sit at the bar for three hours to watch the game, it's either I drink or don't go, because you can't just take up a barstool drinking diet soda when you're costing the bartender money.

Two caveats - I live in Las Vegas, where things are always dialed up to 11, and I also get "reliable" transportation, although that may sometimes be in the form of someone that had 2-3 drinks instead of someone stone cold sober.

Fine you can drink if you want but then have reliable transportation planned for afterwards.

I drink too but I always know that I'll have safe and reliable transportation to get me wherever I need to be afterwards. I plan that before I go drinking not once I start drinking.

 

[Solar7]

Fine you can drink if you want but then have reliable transportation planned for afterwards.

I drink too but I always know that I'll have safe and reliable transportation to get me wherever I need to be afterwards. I plan that before I go drinking not once I start drinking.

Good call. I Uber a lot of places before drinking at all so I don't even have the option.

 

[Rab]

There really is no excuse. The law is clear. People who do drink know what it takes to get to that point where you’re putting yourself in jeopardy of picking up a DUI, whether buzzed or drunk. It’s simple. Not to mention what you could potentially take from others lives.

There is no excuse. There is no justification. It’s stupid, wreckless, and selfish. Keim is a bright man. He should know better. I get it, we all make mistakes, but mistakes like this can be so easily prevented, especially in today’s world where you can take 2 mins to access a ride on your phone.

Sucks, I’m a big Keim guy, but he’s put the organization in a very tough spot.

 

[Solar7]

There really is no excuse. The law is clear. People who do drink know what it takes to get to that point where you’re putting yourself in jeopardy of picking up a DUI, whether buzzed or drunk. It’s simple. Not to mention what you could potentially take from others lives.

Alright, I PROMISE I'm going to stop posting in this thread until more info about the arrest comes out, but "that point" is not clear and consistent for all people. Google the numbers, and every site will give you slightly different info. In some, it's 3 drinks an hour. In some, it's one. Thinking that someone "knows what it takes" is shortsighted.

 

[Willie D]

After dealing with players who have been busted like that, seeing what happens with the league and in the court of public opinion, Keim certainly knows better. Of course, no one is ever accused of being brilliant in making decisions when drunk.

I think it is a fairly certain assumption that he won't be fired. Whether or not one of us would lose our jobs, how another person's situation was handled, etc. etc. does not make a bit of a difference.

This is a indefensible, inexcusable crime and there are civil and league penalties that will, most likely, be imposed. That's how it goes.

Too many people die when drunken idiots decide they are "OK" to get behind the wheel.

There are no civil penalties...this is a class 1 criminal misdemeanor. Unless he hit someone or something.

Oh, and NO ONE in America gets fired after they're forced to go into their bosses office and tell him they need to miss 3 days of work because he caught a dewey? Some of you fanboys are delusional.

Here's what Kime will get to experience:
1. Night in Chandler jail with the other drunks
2. Car is impounded for 30 days
3. License suspended for 90 days
4. Spend a poo ton of money on an attorney
5. Get to have an interlock device installed on every car he owns...including any family members for at least a half year
6. Couple of days in the 4th Avenue jail
7. probable home detention
8. Mandatory Alcohol classes
9. Probation for at least a half decade
10. Have to stand in open court with a ton of reporters around and listen to him allocute in front of the judge.

But he can rise above it. He can consult his other pro athlete friends who got busted: Barkley, Mark Grace, Khabibulin, McKnob and others.

 

[Ronin]

https://sports.yahoo.com/ian-rapoport-arizona-cardinals-gm-222200124.html

 

[TRW]

There are no civil penalties...this is a class 1 criminal misdemeanor. Unless he hit someone or something.

Oh, and NO ONE in America gets fired after they're forced to go into their bosses office and tell him they need to miss 3 days of work because he caught a dewey? Some of you fanboys are delusional.

Here's what Kime will get to experience:
1. Night in Chandler jail with the other drunks
2. Car is impounded for 30 days
3. License suspended for 90 days
4. Spend a **** ton of money on an attorney
5. Get to have an interlock device installed on every car he owns...including any family members for at least a half year
6. Couple of days in the 4th Avenue jail
7. probable home detention
8. Mandatory Alcohol classes
9. Probation for at least a half decade
10. Have to stand in open court with a ton of reporters around and listen to him allocute in front of the judge.

But he can rise above it. He can consult his other pro athlete friends who got busted: Barkley, Mark Grace, Khabibulin, McKnob and others.

Thank you for your illuminating response. I don’t know who “Kime” is but Mr. Keim needs to read your discourse as to what is in store for him. LOL

 

[sr7706]

Time for Keim to make some life changes, he's never struck me as the most healthy looking individual as it is...Hope he changes some things...

 

[MrYeahBut]

I drove under the influence of one substance or another for decades, often with my kids in the car. By some miracle I never got a DUI, crashed and burned or injured anyone.

I changed my life. Steve Kiem can change his if he so chooses.