Article on Shaun King

[Skkorpion]

http://arizonasportsfans.com/storypage.php?Story_ID=528&Category=cardinals

 

[conraddobler]

Some good points but ending with bringing in Drew Bledsoe was a shocker.

Not to mention the complete lack of explaining why we need a true deep threat WR or why we have two possesion WR we are about to break the bank on.

 

[Russ Smith]

Some good points but ending with bringing in Drew Bledsoe was a shocker.

Not to mention the complete lack of explaining why we need a true deep threat WR or why we have two possesion WR we are about to break the bank on.

My problem was saying it made sense to not take a QB in a year there was one sitting there we liked (Ben) for a WR in a year stacked with WR's with the NEXT draft coming in also fairly deep in WR's, but quite possibly not deep at all in QB's.

If you know there's 4-5 QB's next year draft or FA sure take Fitz, if you don't, you're now stuck because Leinart and Rodgers say they're not coming out, and if they do, we probably won't pick high enough to get them, without having to trade a core player to get them.

We had a great draft but I'd rather be looking for a WR than a QB.

 

[Assface]

My problem was saying it made sense to not take a QB in a year there was one sitting there we liked (Ben) for a WR in a year stacked with WR's with the NEXT draft coming in also fairly deep in WR's, but quite possibly not deep at all in QB's.

If you know there's 4-5 QB's next year draft or FA sure take Fitz, if you don't, you're now stuck because Leinart and Rodgers say they're not coming out, and if they do, we probably won't pick high enough to get them, without having to trade a core player to get them.

We had a great draft but I'd rather be looking for a WR than a QB.

Hopefull Buffalo and/or Dallas bomb the rest of the season with Miami and San Francisco winning another 2 games each. Since Dallas has the Bills 1st round pick this year from the last draft the Cowboys currently have 2 picks in the top 10. We should be able to trade up with them because 1. they need quantity. Their defense needs a number of people. They can trade one pick and still get a top playmaker. 2. They have to do something to fit all of their picks in the rookie cap. We had trouble fitting two late first round picks under the rook cap, imagine to top 10 picks. 3. They have their QB (Henson) so they won't be worried about missing out on a top QB.

 

[Lex]

Hmmm ...another quarterback genius.

Another so-called Cardinal fan giving up on a season when we're 4-6 with four home games left, and two on the road, where we still control our own destiny, in the playoff chase.

Jake Plummer is now 16-5 since he was run out of here by genius' like Mr. ED.

It's always about the stupid quarterback.

 

[Pariah]

Some good points but ending with bringing in Drew Bledsoe was a shocker.

Not to mention the complete lack of explaining why we need a true deep threat WR or why we have two possesion WR we are about to break the bank on.

Bledsoe? Yeah, I could see that. I don't know how I'd feel about it, but I could see it happening. He's certianly a step above McCown and King, and Navarre actually looks a lot like a young Bledsoe, so maybe we'd have a second QB coach on our hands in tutoring Navarre.

I'm not too concerned about having 2 "possesion" receivers--I think we can craft a passing attack that utilizes these guys and really Fs with opposing D's.

What DOES concern me, is that for all the talk we hear about fitz "catching everything thrown at him," he sure does drop a lot of balls.

 

[Skkorpion]

My opinion differs a bit from Ed's but the end result is the same.

When Shaun King got to start, he was given more shotgun plays and more deep patterns wre called. McCown had a more limited package to work with. I think Denny Green had planned all along to go to Shaun King sometime his season but couldn't do it earlier because King had a horrible series of camps.

King is Denny Green's choice, not McCown. Statements to the contrary were nonsense. And McCown and King knew it all along and never interracted. They avoided each other. Couldn't stand each other.

The real audition for QB is now. Denny Green liked King coming out of college and the next 6 games will tell us if King can play. I'm glad we finally got to it. McCown will be someplace else next year.

I hope King succeeds because McCown is now past history with Denny Green.

King should have had more reps in practice and Green admitted that this morning. So drop the McCown hpes, they are finished.

I thought the oline actually pass blocked well yesterday but King was holding the ball too long. Rust? Probably. Give him a chance.

Above all, we need aa real RB. Then our QB will have a chance.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm glad we finally got to it. McCown will be someplace else next year.

I hope King succeeds because McCown is now past history with Denny Green.

King should have had more reps in practice and Green admitted that this morning. So drop the McCown hpes, they are finished.

On the one hand I'll say Hallelujah because I think Josh just flat out sucks and willnever be anything more than Stoney Case in this league - but on the other hand - WE DIDN'T DRAFT BIG BEN BECAUSE GREEN LIKES SHAWN KING?! I've been on board with everything else at this point with Denny, but this is a REAL head scratcher to me. Hopefully Denny goes out and rpvoes the skeptics (part of me) wrong again, but if that truly was his decision making process and he really wanted King overall, well, call me stumped.

 

[Lex]

Skkorp-

Was that your E-mail they just read on KDUS?

Sounded like you.

 

[kerouac9]

On the one hand I'll say Hallelujah because I think Josh just flat out sucks and willnever be anything more than Stoney Case in this league - but on the other hand - WE DIDN'T DRAFT BIG BEN BECAUSE GREEN LIKES SHAWN KING?! I've been on board with everything else at this point with Denny, but this is a REAL head scratcher to me. Hopefully Denny goes out and rpvoes the skeptics (part of me) wrong again, but if that truly was his decision making process and he really wanted King overall, well, call me stumped.

We didn't draft Big Ben because Green knows and loves Larry Fitzgerald, and he figured that he could get by with crappy QBs for a season in order to get his WRs in place. Hard to disagree. He's happier with King (who he apparently wanted) than he would be with some real bum (say, Kerry Collins) under center, but it wasn't King v. Roethlisberger (who no one thought was going to be this good this soon), but Fitz (...& King) v. Roethlisberger. Hard to disagree, when it will come down to dollars and cents in three or four years.

 

[TRW]

Personally, this article makes the most accurate representation of this season I've read to date. It factually and not hysterically lays it out plain and simple if you have paid attention since Denny's hiring. It really does.

Except for the Bledsoe ending, GOD please Denny just say "NO!!!!!!" to that. I think the writer made salient points and told it pretty much the way it is.

We WILL have a new QB next year. Neither Josh nor King have what it takes to be starters in the NFL. Period.

 

[conraddobler]

Could someone, anyone please explain who is supposed to play the part of Moss in this Vikings part deux scenario?

We also seem to be missing Robert Smith.

Fitz is built like Moss without the blazing speed.

We have zero speed at WR, as in none, zip, nothing. I see that as a problem when we have none.

Not every WR has to be fast to be good but generally you need at least one that is.

 

[conraddobler]

My opinion differs a bit from Ed's but the end result is the same.

When Shaun King got to start, he was given more shotgun plays and more deep patterns wre called. McCown had a more limited package to work with. I think Denny Green had planned all along to go to Shaun King sometime his season but couldn't do it earlier because King had a horrible series of camps.

King is Denny Green's choice, not McCown. Statements to the contrary were nonsense. And McCown and King knew it all along and never interracted. They avoided each other. Couldn't stand each other.

The real audition for QB is now. Denny Green liked King coming out of college and the next 6 games will tell us if King can play. I'm glad we finally got to it. McCown will be someplace else next year.

I hope King succeeds because McCown is now past history with Denny Green.

King should have had more reps in practice and Green admitted that this morning. So drop the McCown hpes, they are finished.

I thought the oline actually pass blocked well yesterday but King was holding the ball too long. Rust? Probably. Give him a chance.

Above all, we need aa real RB. Then our QB will have a chance.

I think this was the plan from the get go and I got somewhat jobbed by DG in trusting why he kept starting Josh.

It makes sense that he just used Josh to get Fitz, it makes sense that he may have really given Josh a shot but never had any real confidence in him like he spouted off about.

The shotgun snaps tell the whole story we never got a straight answer all year on that one then walla King gets them.

Josh is done here and I think he could make someone a solid backup somewhere else but that's about it unless he really matures and learns the game more.

He dosen't read much of anything in the time frame it needs to be done in. It's not like he's Peyton Manning just bursting with great reads but unable to execute, the blame is his and he could have made it impossible to sit him if he had really been good, he wasn't and it's move on time.

Fitz better be awesome cause Denny isn't through working out the reprecusssions of that one yet.

 

[Russ Smith]

My opinion differs a bit from Ed's but the end result is the same.

When Shaun King got to start, he was given more shotgun plays and more deep patterns wre called. McCown had a more limited package to work with. I think Denny Green had planned all along to go to Shaun King sometime his season but couldn't do it earlier because King had a horrible series of camps.

King is Denny Green's choice, not McCown. Statements to the contrary were nonsense. And McCown and King knew it all along and never interracted. They avoided each other. Couldn't stand each other.

The real audition for QB is now. Denny Green liked King coming out of college and the next 6 games will tell us if King can play. I'm glad we finally got to it. McCown will be someplace else next year.

I hope King succeeds because McCown is now past history with Denny Green.

King should have had more reps in practice and Green admitted that this morning. So drop the McCown hpes, they are finished.

I thought the oline actually pass blocked well yesterday but King was holding the ball too long. Rust? Probably. Give him a chance.

Above all, we need aa real RB. Then our QB will have a chance.

Wow I don't know whether to choke on my sandwich from the idea that Green prefers King, but played Josh 9 games, or rejoice that Dennis Green actually ADMITTED he made a mistake not giving King more reps?

If King was the choice, how come Green annointed Josh the starter back in February when he cut Blake? And how come again before the draft WITH King signed, he proclaimed Josh the starter and compared him to Favre? Just doesn't hold up that he planned all along to go with King.

I think he knew he was heavily overrating Josh, because he needed to justify not picking a QB. He hoped Josh would pan out, but signed King as a plan B if he didn't pan out.

I do agree about RB's, and frankly I agree with Lex from last week if our OL could run block so we could bring safeties up, our passing game would be better.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

ed, you had me 'til bledsoe. cheese raised bledsoe to me yesterday during the game and i thought, "god no, he's the second coming of chrissy everett (thank jim rome)"

i just think bledsoe is done. confidence shot. at least for an entire season. though i suppose denny is the king of reclamation, so who knows.

skorp's comments are interesting. if king was the man all along but for a couple of bad camps, why in the world wait THIS long to put him in? i mean, the camps are distance memories as of the 5th or 6th game.

 

[Russ Smith]

I
Fitz better be awesome cause Denny isn't through working out the reprecusssions of that one yet.

I've already told Conrad yesterday my worst case scenario fear for the outcome of drafting Fitz so high.

I think worst case scenario pre2005 draft we trade Anquan Boldin for the same reasons Denver traded Portis. They have the same agent, Quan is too nice so he hired a hitman to get him the money after seeing what Fitz was getting paid and how inferior Fitz's rookie year was to Quan's. No question Rosenhaus uses Fitz' contract in his negotiations.

My worst fear is instead of a healthy "rivalry" where they push each other to be the best, they develop an unhealthy rivalry, Green sides with his guy.

Ever since Quan hired Rosenhaus that fear has been percolating with me.

 

[conraddobler]

My take is that Josh did DG a HUGE favor by beating the Vikes like he did.

DG saw a hole and bobbled right on through it at top speed.

Josh = Fitz

King does not = Fitz

Josh is unknown and you can BS your way through that, King you couldn't sell anyone on signing him and drafting Fitz they'd have thought he was insane.

 

[pete]

Nice article. You had me until you mentioned Drew Bledsoe. Denny wouldn't really do that, would he?

 

[WildBB]

ED your story makes sence BUT - WHY would Green get rid of Jeff Blake if he didn't thouroghly sp? believe in the the potential of McCown and the productivity of King.

Yes McCown sucks - first yr. starter. So is Palmer , what's Cinnci doing with just as good or better D? Nothing.

Yes King sucks - why the hell did he bring HIM IN?! And cut Blake, other than to look good saving the Bidwells $$$$$$$$$$$$. King's got no arm. He's too short to make good reads over the line.

Bad calls

You got your guy in Fitz. True - but Big Bens don't come around often either. Gotta disagree there. Good big WR's are MORE plentiful. I like Fitz. I'd rather have Ben around 2 yrs. then go into the stadium. JMO/

That said I'm satisfied with Fitz. He'll be good a long time. Better than Williams IMO.

Still Green blew it by not having Blake here at this point. He really DID BELIEVE Josh was the GUY. Otherwise all the talk about playoffs was HOT AIR and Gambodoro was right - all just wanted improvement this yr.

 

[pete]

My opinion differs a bit from Ed's but the end result is the same.

When Shaun King got to start, he was given more shotgun plays and more deep patterns wre called. McCown had a more limited package to work with. I think Denny Green had planned all along to go to Shaun King sometime his season but couldn't do it earlier because King had a horrible series of camps.

King is Denny Green's choice, not McCown. Statements to the contrary were nonsense. And McCown and King knew it all along and never interracted. They avoided each other. Couldn't stand each other.

The real audition for QB is now. Denny Green liked King coming out of college and the next 6 games will tell us if King can play. I'm glad we finally got to it. McCown will be someplace else next year.

I hope King succeeds because McCown is now past history with Denny Green.

King should have had more reps in practice and Green admitted that this morning. So drop the McCown hpes, they are finished.

I thought the oline actually pass blocked well yesterday but King was holding the ball too long. Rust? Probably. Give him a chance.

Above all, we need aa real RB. Then our QB will have a chance.

This makes no sense. If McCown was not Green's guy, whose was he? Graves didn't seem to have much confiidence in him at the end of last year. If King was really Green's first choice, we would have seen him long before now.

Also, I don't think McCown had a more limited package to work with, he just did less with what was there. King will throw the ball down on the goal line and let Boldin or Fitz go up for it. McCown rarely made that play. He was content to dump off or tuck it and run.

 

[This_Guy]

My opinion differs a bit from Ed's but the end result is the same.

When Shaun King got to start, he was given more shotgun plays and more deep patterns wre called. McCown had a more limited package to work with. I think Denny Green had planned all along to go to Shaun King sometime his season but couldn't do it earlier because King had a horrible series of camps.

King is Denny Green's choice, not McCown. Statements to the contrary were nonsense. And McCown and King knew it all along and never interracted. They avoided each other. Couldn't stand each other.

The real audition for QB is now. Denny Green liked King coming out of college and the next 6 games will tell us if King can play. I'm glad we finally got to it. McCown will be someplace else next year.

I hope King succeeds because McCown is now past history with Denny Green.

King should have had more reps in practice and Green admitted that this morning. So drop the McCown hpes, they are finished.

I thought the oline actually pass blocked well yesterday but King was holding the ball too long. Rust? Probably. Give him a chance.

Above all, we need aa real RB. Then our QB will have a chance.

I think this is probably accurate and is closer to what I said back in training camp. Green's view of King is a lot closer to my view then the rest of you.

Yesterday was a bad day for King just as it was a bad day for the entire team. Many of King's mistakes were the quickly correctable kind, like not being in synch with WRs because he's been taking his reps with Reggie Newhouse all year. McCown's mistakes were not correctable, like not seeing the field, not having pocket presence, etc. Those of you clamoring for McCown are funny. McCown had absolutely everything working around him and still could not make the passing game work, King had absolutely nothing working around him, including the officiating, yet still moved the ball despite being blitzed constantly. (I still find it incredibly amusing that "at least McCown didn't turn the ball over". How many INTs did McCown get called back due to penalties? Multiple? Did he have any 44 yard TD passes called back? I don't think so)

King's turnovers were inexcusable, but the team was down 14-0 before King threw his first INT and the TD to Boldin was a 14 point swing. Those of you calling King a "turnover machine" aren't going off of anything besides yesterday. King hasn't turned the ball over historically, and the Panthers forced FIVE turnovers from Tim Rattay last week. I suspect McCown would have had more problems yesterday than King and would have been benched anyway. If King turns the ball over next week, it's fine to get all upset. But do not confuse a bad game with a bad player. If 343 yards is a bad game, guess what happens when there is a good game?

Everyone take a deep breath, King is the QB for at least another week and almost assuredly the rest of the season. Since most of you felt that McCown needed a FULL SEASON to be judged, give King ONE WEEK of practice to be fair. King will shake off the rust, play much better and now that there is a passing game to go with the Cardinals defense, they are a much more complete football team for the rest of the year.

Yesterday was miserable for the whole team, move on.

 

[WildBB]

I think this is probably accurate and is closer to what I said back in training camp. Green's view of King is a lot closer to my view then the rest of you.

Yesterday was a bad day for King just as it was a bad day for the entire team. Many of King's mistakes were the quickly correctable kind, like not being in synch with WRs because he's been taking his reps with Reggie Newhouse all year. McCown's mistakes were not correctable, like not seeing the field, not having pocket presence, etc. Those of you clamoring for McCown are funny. McCown had absolutely everything working around him and still could not make the passing game work, King had absolutely nothing working around him, including the officiating, yet still moved the ball despite being blitzed constantly. (I still find it incredibly amusing that "at least McCown didn't turn the ball over". How many INTs did McCown get called back due to penalties? Multiple? Did he have any 44 yard TD passes called back? I don't think so)

King's turnovers were inexcusable, but the team was down 14-0 before King threw his first INT and the TD to Boldin was a 14 point swing. Those of you calling King a "turnover machine" aren't going off of anything besides yesterday. King hasn't turned the ball over historically, and the Panthers forced FIVE turnovers from Tim Rattay last week. I suspect McCown would have had more problems yesterday than King and would have been benched anyway. If King turns the ball over next week, it's fine to get all upset. But do not confuse a bad game with a bad player. If 343 yards is a bad game, guess what happens when there is a good game?

Everyone take a deep breath, King is the QB for at least another week and almost assuredly the rest of the season. Since most of you felt that McCown needed a FULL SEASON to be judged, give King ONE WEEK of practice to be fair. King will shake off the rust, play much better and now that there is a passing game to go with the Cardinals defense, they are a much more complete football team for the rest of the year.

Yesterday was miserable for the whole team, move on.

The only thing King's got going for him is good WR's! That's it.

 

[Russ Smith]

The only thing King's got going for him is good WR's! That's it.

That was the whole point of taking Fitz over a QB though right? If we did, we wouldn't need a franchise QB, that was Denny's whole plan.

 

[conraddobler]

That was the whole point of taking Fitz over a QB though right? If we did, we wouldn't need a franchise QB, that was Denny's whole plan.

Well that's at least a plan and it makes sense given his record with QB's but still we don't have Moss or R Smith or for that matter a decent Oline.

All of those things are reasons why I didn't understand the playoff mania this year we are going exactly nowhere without those.

The Fitz thing ticks me off because it just smacks too much of nepotisim at it's highest order, sure the kid is good but the whole scenario and the way it happend was a complete con.

 

[clif]

I think this is probably accurate and is closer to what I said back in training camp. Green's view of King is a lot closer to my view then the rest of you.

Yesterday was a bad day for King just as it was a bad day for the entire team. Many of King's mistakes were the quickly correctable kind, like not being in synch with WRs because he's been taking his reps with Reggie Newhouse all year. McCown's mistakes were not correctable, like not seeing the field, not having pocket presence, etc. Those of you clamoring for McCown are funny. McCown had absolutely everything working around him and still could not make the passing game work, King had absolutely nothing working around him, including the officiating, yet still moved the ball despite being blitzed constantly. (I still find it incredibly amusing that "at least McCown didn't turn the ball over". How many INTs did McCown get called back due to penalties? Multiple? Did he have any 44 yard TD passes called back? I don't think so)

King's turnovers were inexcusable, but the team was down 14-0 before King threw his first INT and the TD to Boldin was a 14 point swing. Those of you calling King a "turnover machine" aren't going off of anything besides yesterday. King hasn't turned the ball over historically, and the Panthers forced FIVE turnovers from Tim Rattay last week. I suspect McCown would have had more problems yesterday than King and would have been benched anyway. If King turns the ball over next week, it's fine to get all upset. But do not confuse a bad game with a bad player. If 343 yards is a bad game, guess what happens when there is a good game?

Everyone take a deep breath, King is the QB for at least another week and almost assuredly the rest of the season. Since most of you felt that McCown needed a FULL SEASON to be judged, give King ONE WEEK of practice to be fair. King will shake off the rust, play much better and now that there is a passing game to go with the Cardinals defense, they are a much more complete football team for the rest of the year.

Yesterday was miserable for the whole team, move on.

I can stomach King being the QB, but what I can't is your petty defense of his horrible play yesterday. To say that he had nothing going for him yesterday is such a load of crap. He was careless with the ball yesterday and that was a large contributor to the loss.

Like Josh, I think it is obvious that there are many problems on this team and I am at least glad to know at this point that it is not all on the QB as many have suggested.

I dont expect him to play as bad as he did yesterday. I also dont expect him to throw for 300 yards a game as he did.

King is the starter now, but I doubt he will be back next year as a starter based solely on the fact that he does not have the arm strength to consistently throw the long ball. I think that was apparent yesterday. He can make the intermediate throws and certainly makes quick decisions.