At the Risk of Being Sacreligious

Harry

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I know Steve Keim is up for sainthood, but I've got a concern. I'm confident Keim's personnel strategy can keep the Cards in playoff contention as long as they have a decent, experienced QB. Here's the rub. Filling in the gaps with short-term aging players has served the Cards well. That said, as the season wears on it looks like these players may be wearing down.

The playoffs seem to reflect this to an even greater degree. These players seem more prone to injury and appear to recover more slowly. All teams use these players to fill a hole here and there, but at times they seem to provide much of the Cardinal defense. Three other issues arise. First players seem to play best when they have a sense of how the players on their unit will respond any given situation. While most attention is focused on coordination with the play of the offensive line, all units benefit from it. These older players are constantly rotating. Secondly if they play great they're hard to keep. Finally if the Cards offer a multi-year contract the players age makes them more likely than normal to break down in year 2, like Abraham.

I'm certainly not trying to disparage what Keim has done, but I think a change in strategy is reasonable. The Cards need to do a better job with the draft. Securing only 2 or 3 productive players is not elite performance.

Major free agents have typically been restricted to offensive linemen. The Cards must find a way to get more boom for their bucks and impact other units.

Keim has easily been the best GM the Cards have had in a long time. He's probably the best since Chicago. Still to take it to the next level he's got to be even better.
 

Zeno

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The key is the draft, free agency is good short term fix.

We can't have a first rounder be inactive for 18 games again...that is just ridiculous. You'd think we could have got production out of someone, we had undrafted guys see the field but our first round pick couldn't even wear a helmet on game day.
 

b8rtm8nn

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Here are the last 7 drafts, Keim has shown improvement from the previous regime, and IMO, even year to year in his drafting. It will be interesting to see how he does this year and if last year's plan of drafting potential to sit on the bench pays off. Hopefully we can get a good, young LB or DB in free agency this year as well.

Man, our drafts were surprisingly poor.

Year Rnd Pick Pos
2015 1 24 D.J. Humphries T
2015 2 58 Markus Golden LB
2015 3 86 David Johnson RB
2015 4 116 Rodney Gunter DT
2015 5 158 Shaquille Riddick LB
2015 5 159 JJ Nelson WR
2015 7 256 Gerald Christian TE
2014 1 27 Deone Bucannon DB
2014 2 52 Troy Niklas TE
2014 3 84 Kareem Martin DE
2014 3 91 John Brown WR
2014 4 120 Logan Thomas QB
2014 5 160 Ed Stinson DE
2014 6 196 Walt Powell WR
2013 1 7 Jonathan Cooper G
2013 2 45 Kevin Minter LB
2013 3 69 Tyrann Mathieu DB
2013 4 103 Alex Okafor LB
2013 4 116 Earl Watford G
2013 5 140 Stepfan Taylor RB
2013 6 174 Ryan Swope WR
2013 6 187 Andre Ellington RB
2013 7 219 D.C. Jefferson TE
2012 1 13 Michael Floyd WR
2012 3 80 Jamell Fleming DB
2012 4 112 Bobby Massie T
2012 5 151 Senio Kelemete G
2012 6 177 Justin Bethel DB
2012 6 185 Ryan Lindley QB
2012 7 221 Nate Potter T
2011 1 5 Patrick Peterson DB
2011 2 38 Ryan Williams RB
2011 3 69 Rob Housler TE
2011 4 103 Sam Acho LB
2011 5 136 Anthony Sherman RB
2011 6 171 Quan Sturdivant LB
2011 6 184 David Carter DT
2011 7 249 DeMarco Sampson WR
2010 1 26 Dan Williams DT
2010 2 47 Daryl Washington LB
2010 3 88 Andre Roberts WR
2010 4 130 O'Brien Schofield DE
2010 5 155 John Skelton QB
2010 6 201 Jorrick Calvin DB
2010 7 233 Jim Dray TE
2009 1 31 Beanie Wells RB
2009 2 63 Cody Brown LB
2009 3 95 Rashad Johnson DB
2009 4 131 Greg Toler DB
2009 5 167 Herman Johnson T
2009 6 204 Will Davis DE
2009 7 240 LaRod Stephens-Howling RB
2009 7 254 Trevor Canfield G
 

cardfaninfl

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And young players are often noted for "hitting the wall" 3/4 of the way into the season. Playoff football is often a war of attrition. Arguably the key player on the Cardinals' defense was injured this season, just as arguably the key player on offense was injured the prior season. Bad luck, not bad strategy.

As far as the CONSTANT argument of "just need to draft better"... :thud: ... I'm sure the scouting department has never thought of that advice. The draft is not a video game, and even the best GMs consider 40-50% hits to be a pretty good draft.
 

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LOTT..........................................

I know just saying...............
 

Finito

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Oh why don't we draft better? Man that's brilliant lol. It's that easy.

I think SK has done an amazing job in the draft so far. Remember he's only been in charge 3 years and each year our win total has gone up. This is a process it's not going to happen over night.

I still don't understand why it's so hard for Cardinal fans to understand that Humphries was a depth pick. The book on him when he came out was a great physical talent who plays with a mean streak but doesn't really know the position yet. Give it time.
 

Cardinals.Ken

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Here are the last 7 drafts, Keim has shown improvement from the previous regime, and IMO, even year to year in his drafting. It will be interesting to see how he does this year and if last year's plan of drafting potential to sit on the bench pays off. Hopefully we can get a good, young LB or DB in free agency this year as well.

Man, our drafts were surprisingly poor.

Year Rnd Pick Pos
2015 1 24 D.J. Humphries T
2015 2 58 Markus Golden LB
2015 3 86 David Johnson RB
2015 4 116 Rodney Gunter DT
2015 5 158 Shaquille Riddick LB
2015 5 159 JJ Nelson WR
2015 7 256 Gerald Christian TE
2014 1 27 Deone Bucannon DB
2014 2 52 Troy Niklas TE
2014 3 84 Kareem Martin DE
2014 3 91 John Brown WR
2014 4 120 Logan Thomas QB
2014 5 160 Ed Stinson DE
2014 6 196 Walt Powell WR
2013 1 7 Jonathan Cooper G
2013 2 45 Kevin Minter LB
2013 3 69 Tyrann Mathieu DB
2013 4 103 Alex Okafor LB
2013 4 116 Earl Watford G
2013 5 140 Stepfan Taylor RB
2013 6 174 Ryan Swope WR
2013 6 187 Andre Ellington RB
2013 7 219 D.C. Jefferson TE
2012 1 13 Michael Floyd WR
2012 3 80 Jamell Fleming DB
2012 4 112 Bobby Massie T
2012 5 151 Senio Kelemete G
2012 6 177 Justin Bethel DB
2012 6 185 Ryan Lindley QB
2012 7 221 Nate Potter T
2011 1 5 Patrick Peterson DB
2011 2 38 Ryan Williams RB
2011 3 69 Rob Housler TE
2011 4 103 Sam Acho LB
2011 5 136 Anthony Sherman RB
2011 6 171 Quan Sturdivant LB
2011 6 184 David Carter DT
2011 7 249 DeMarco Sampson WR
2010 1 26 Dan Williams DT
2010 2 47 Daryl Washington LB
2010 3 88 Andre Roberts WR
2010 4 130 O'Brien Schofield DE
2010 5 155 John Skelton QB
2010 6 201 Jorrick Calvin DB
2010 7 233 Jim Dray TE
2009 1 31 Beanie Wells RB
2009 2 63 Cody Brown LB
2009 3 95 Rashad Johnson DB
2009 4 131 Greg Toler DB
2009 5 167 Herman Johnson T
2009 6 204 Will Davis DE
2009 7 240 LaRod Stephens-Howling RB
2009 7 254 Trevor Canfield G

Whenever I see a draft recap for the Cards, this pops into my head:

 

oaken1

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my guess is that as we see more of our draft picks develop, the number of older short term signings will decrease...that is the plan isn't it?


based on what SK has shown,...we should probably just trade our first round pick for a couple of third round picks....we manage bench players in the first and future pro bowlers in the third...
 

Stout

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The key is the draft, free agency is good short term fix.

We can't have a first rounder be inactive for 18 games again...that is just ridiculous. You'd think we could have got production out of someone, we had undrafted guys see the field but our first round pick couldn't even wear a helmet on game day.

+1
 

az jam

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IMO this will be a key year for SK & BA. The expectation is that both Cooper and Humphries will be starters. If that happens and they do well that will certainly validate their being drafted in the first round. Additionally after 3 straight years of on the filed success another playoff run will also confirm the success of the SK & BA team.
 

Dan H

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Hits in bold, misses italics. TBD neither.

Year Rnd Pick Pos
2015 1 24 D.J. Humphries T
2015 2 58 Markus Golden LB
2015 3 86 David Johnson RB
2015 4 116 Rodney Gunter DT
2015 5 158 Shaquille Riddick LB
2015 5 159 JJ Nelson WR
2015 7 256 Gerald Christian TE

2014 1 27 Deone Bucannon DB
2014 2 52 Troy Niklas TE
2014 3 84 Kareem Martin DE
2014 3 91 John Brown WR
2014 4 120 Logan Thomas QB
2014 5 160 Ed Stinson DE
2014 6 196 Walt Powell WR

2013 1 7 Jonathan Cooper G
2013 2 45 Kevin Minter LB
2013 3 69 Tyrann Mathieu DB
2013 4 103 Alex Okafor LB
2013 4 116 Earl Watford G
2013 5 140 Stepfan Taylor RB
2013 6 174 Ryan Swope WR
2013 6 187 Andre Ellington RB
2013 7 219 D.C. Jefferson TE

2012 1 13 Michael Floyd WR
2012 3 80 Jamell Fleming DB
2012 4 112 Bobby Massie T
2012 5 151 Senio Kelemete G
2012 6 177 Justin Bethel DB
2012 6 185 Ryan Lindley QB
2012 7 221 Nate Potter T

2011 1 5 Patrick Peterson DB
2011 2 38 Ryan Williams RB
2011 3 69 Rob Housler TE

2011 4 103 Sam Acho LB
2011 5 136 Anthony Sherman RB
2011 6 171 Quan Sturdivant LB
2011 6 184 David Carter DT
2011 7 249 DeMarco Sampson WR

[2010 1 26 Dan Williams DT
2010 2 47 Daryl Washington LB
2010 3 88 Andre Roberts WR
2010 4 130 O'Brien Schofield DE
2010 5 155 John Skelton QB
2010 6 201 Jorrick Calvin DB
2010 7 233 Jim Dray TE

2009 1 31 Beanie Wells RB
2009 2 63 Cody Brown LB
2009 3 95 Rashad Johnson DB
2009 4 131 Greg Toler DB
2009 5 167 Herman Johnson T
2009 6 204 Will Davis DE
2009 7 240 LaRod Stephens-Howling RB
2009 7 254 Trevor Canfield G
 
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Cardiac

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my guess is that as we see more of our draft picks develop, the number of older short term signings will decrease...that is the plan isn't it?


based on what SK has shown,...we should probably just trade our first round pick for a couple of third round picks....we manage bench players in the first and future pro bowlers in the third...

Good post Harry and I think oaken1 is right that the one year older player signings will decrease as Keim has a chance to build better depth.

I was also thinking the same thing oaken1 about trading our 1st rd pick for a bunch of 3rd and 4th rd picks.
 

b8rtm8nn

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Hits in bold, misses italics. TBD neither.

To be fair, I would adjust the following to be TBD:

2009 1 31 Beanie Wells RB
(knee, played well when healthy)

2014 6 196 Walt Powell WR
(traded due to good depth at WR, still in league)

2014 2 52 Troy Niklas TE
(played only 14 fewer snaps than K Martin and is expected to play next year)
 

Dan H

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Did not know that about Powell, that's a fair point. Beanie was so nicked up and did nothing after leaving the Cards so I don't know how well you can grade him. Plus the o-line talent was definitely lacking during those days.
 

NJCardFan

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I think what hurt us defensively was not keeping Williams, ignoring LB in the draft, and not pursuing an edge rusher of any kind. I'm going to bleat this until I'm hoarse but drafting Humphries instead of Shaq Thompson is going to be the biggest mistake BASK has ever made. Humphries made less of an impact than I did this season which is saying a lot considering I'm 50 years old and haven't played football since 1982. Thompson made an impact on a great team and is now starting in the Super Bowl at a position that is still a glaring need for this team. IMO unless Humphries turns into the 2nd coming of Art Shell this is going to be the dumbest 1st round pick in their tenure.
 

oaken1

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I think what hurt us defensively was not keeping Williams, ignoring LB in the draft, and not pursuing an edge rusher of any kind. I'm going to bleat this until I'm hoarse but drafting Humphries instead of Shaq Thompson is going to be the biggest mistake BASK has ever made. Humphries made less of an impact than I did this season which is saying a lot considering I'm 50 years old and haven't played football since 1982. Thompson made an impact on a great team and is now starting in the Super Bowl at a position that is still a glaring need for this team. IMO unless Humphries turns into the 2nd coming of Art Shell this is going to be the dumbest 1st round pick in their tenure.

at least we hope it is...........
 
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I think what hurt us defensively was not keeping Williams, ignoring LB in the draft, and not pursuing an edge rusher of any kind. I'm going to bleat this until I'm hoarse but drafting Humphries instead of Shaq Thompson is going to be the biggest mistake BASK has ever made. Humphries made less of an impact than I did this season which is saying a lot considering I'm 50 years old and haven't played football since 1982. Thompson made an impact on a great team and is now starting in the Super Bowl at a position that is still a glaring need for this team. IMO unless Humphries turns into the 2nd coming of Art Shell this is going to be the dumbest 1st round pick in their tenure.

Hindsight is always the best sight...
 

Finito

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I think what hurt us defensively was not keeping Williams, ignoring LB in the draft, and not pursuing an edge rusher of any kind. I'm going to bleat this until I'm hoarse but drafting Humphries instead of Shaq Thompson is going to be the biggest mistake BASK has ever made. Humphries made less of an impact than I did this season which is saying a lot considering I'm 50 years old and haven't played football since 1982. Thompson made an impact on a great team and is now starting in the Super Bowl at a position that is still a glaring need for this team. IMO unless Humphries turns into the 2nd coming of Art Shell this is going to be the dumbest 1st round pick in their tenure.


Lol Shaq Thompson is alright let's not act like he's special. Come on now.

This isn't even in the class of a Levi Brown over AP
 

Stout

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Hindsight is always the best sight...

Or foresight, in my case. I blasted the team for not bringing Dumpster Dan back, and feel 100 percent vindicated there. I was also displeased with our 1st round selection, and felt we needed to improve at ILBer and OLBer. So, yeah, foresight is the best sight :)
 

Dude

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Lol Shaq Thompson is alright let's not act like he's special. Come on now.

This isn't even in the class of a Levi Brown over AP

His one sack this year is why they went 15 and 1.
 

Chopper0080

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I think it is fair to say that Keim has to get better with his picks in the top 75 of the draft.

...I don't know...I'm not sure I have an original thought on why the picks are missing. You can argue that Niklas, Cooper, and Humphries were drafted on athletic ability over football skill, but you can also argue that Minter, Bucannon, and Golden are the opposite end of the spectrum. Both sides have misses.

The one area that I have hope for is that Keim and Arians seem to have good communication which means Keim should have a great idea of the types of players Arians and his staff are looking for. That is what ultimately leads to long term success.

Personally, i don't feel like we missed a beat without Dan Williams. Some of you may blast me, but in the end, our defense performed as well. You can argue that it looked different, but the results came out pretty well. Best of all, we aren't locked into a long term deal for a part time player.

2015 - 91.2 yds per game, 3.9 yds per rush without Dan Williams

2014 - 108.7 yds er game, 4.4 yds per rush with Dan Williams

and that wasn't 8 mil paid in 2015, and 7.5 in 2016. He is 28. I can't see how someone can back up that this wasn't a good pass by the Cardinals. You can't sign everyone and the Cards were smart to not pay what the Raiders paid.
 
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ajcardfan

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Lol Shaq Thompson is alright let's not act like he's special. Come on now.

This isn't even in the class of a Levi Brown over AP

He slammed Seahawks fans on Twitter. That alone makes him an All Pro talent.
 

Stout

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I think it is fair to say that Keim has to get better with his picks in the top 75 of the draft.

...I don't know...I'm not sure I have an original thought on why the picks are missing. You can argue that Niklas, Cooper, and Humphries were drafted on athletic ability over football skill, but you can also argue that Minter, Bucannon, and Golden are the opposite end of the spectrum. Both sides have misses.

The one area that I have hope for is that Keim and Arians seem to have good communication which means Keim should have a great idea of the types of players Arians and his staff are looking for. That is what ultimately leads to long term success.

Personally, i don't feel like we missed a beat without Dan Williams. Some of you may blast me, but in the end, our defense performed as well. You can argue that it looked different, but the results came out pretty well. Best of all, we aren't locked into a long term deal for a part time player.

2015 - 91.2 yds per game, 3.9 yds per rush without Dan Williams

2014 - 108.7 yds er game, 4.4 yds per rush with Dan Williams

and that wasn't 8 mil paid in 2015, and 7.5 in 2016. He is 28. I can't see how someone can back up that this wasn't a good pass by the Cardinals. You can't sign everyone and the Cards were smart to not pay what the Raiders paid.

This is extremely selective use of statistics, and I can't see how anyone who watched both seasons can possibly say we made the right call. This season, our offense was healthy down the stretch and controlling games; last season, Ryan Lindley was our QB, and it is extremely well-documented how the burden fell onto a defense that got ground to a pulp by lack of offensive support.

Please. I mean, please. Don't misrepresent the facts through selective use of statistics. This is just too easy to see through. Granted, our rookie did yeoman's work at the position, but didn't hold a candle.
 

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